We're all doomed I tell you, doomed, all doomed! (Dad's army quote) 
Lacking outdoor skills
- Thread starter Janne
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Unless we go back to a pre Industrial level - yes.
Would that be so bad? People lived, loved, mourned. Art was created. Books were written.
And I daresay they worked at a slower pace, and in many cases shorter hours yearly average, including transport to and from work.
Would that be so bad? People lived, loved, mourned. Art was created. Books were written.
And I daresay they worked at a slower pace, and in many cases shorter hours yearly average, including transport to and from work.
Cycle of existence. A species or group of species achieves ascendancy then get wiped out. This time it's likely our species and self inflicted. Something will sprout up from what's left. The only thing is that as a more sentient life form we don't like the idea of accepting this. We just can't agree on how to prevent it. Some want to put it off until some future tech would deal with it. Others want to wreck society with totally impractical or unfeasible short time for action. Two extremes 2050 or 2025. I think I prefer something in between.
Why can't the two sides sort this out better without putting it off or shutting down cities? Personally I see them all as failures. They're failing the whole planet not just the parts of London that's getting shutdown.
Why can't the two sides sort this out better without putting it off or shutting down cities? Personally I see them all as failures. They're failing the whole planet not just the parts of London that's getting shutdown.
How is the Ozone holes doing?
Remember the discussions then?
I believe that had we had not have the very active and vocal Anti Nuclear Power groups back in the 70's and 80's, the Earth would be better off today.
Here on this Island, we burn bunker oil ( the worst, sulfur laden $hit you can burn, same dross most ships burn) to produce most of our electricity.
A friend of mine suggested that the country buys one of those ship based nuclear powerplants. The Government got into hysterics, and did not even discuss it in our parliament.
How many days was the latest London ER protest going for?
I wonder (if the same will protest) if they make other sleeping arrangements.
Remember the discussions then?
I believe that had we had not have the very active and vocal Anti Nuclear Power groups back in the 70's and 80's, the Earth would be better off today.
Here on this Island, we burn bunker oil ( the worst, sulfur laden $hit you can burn, same dross most ships burn) to produce most of our electricity.
A friend of mine suggested that the country buys one of those ship based nuclear powerplants. The Government got into hysterics, and did not even discuss it in our parliament.
How many days was the latest London ER protest going for?
I wonder (if the same will protest) if they make other sleeping arrangements.
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The ozone layer is repairing slowly. . But that is because action was taken. How many of us noticed the massive changes that took place then to solve the problem? How much of an adverse effect did it have on our life?
Now everyone fears regression to medieval style living if we do anything to solve this problem. While putting their heads in the sand and slowly being convayerbelted into the life they fear.
We need to stop arguing and actually get on with things rather than throwing insults at the children and other people who are trying to do something.
What do you mean by I wander if the same people will protest if other sleeping arrangements are made? Are you thinking of putting them up in hotels? If so count me in!!!!
Now everyone fears regression to medieval style living if we do anything to solve this problem. While putting their heads in the sand and slowly being convayerbelted into the life they fear.
We need to stop arguing and actually get on with things rather than throwing insults at the children and other people who are trying to do something.
What do you mean by I wander if the same people will protest if other sleeping arrangements are made? Are you thinking of putting them up in hotels? If so count me in!!!!
No, I wonder if they choose more suitable gear. What I saw through various media, it must have been a very uncomfortable time.
Action was taken in mid 80's? They replaced the gas ( FluoroCarbon?) to a HydroCarbon.
(which contributes to the Global Warming....)
A regression to a pre industrial world is not to be feared. By doing that does not mean we have to forget the knowledge we have achieved since in all fields.
I do not see a consumer society like we have today anything positive.
Of course I too participate, but (like some here) far less than the average consumer.
We can not turn back the clock, but we can adopt many of the ways and customs.
No need to import Bananas and Avocados from the Americas, or Green Beans from Africa....
Apples from NZ? Not in my shopping basket!
I buy a new pair of footwear maybe every 3 years. other clothing I keep for many years. Cars - last daily driver I bought 8 years ago, and plan to use it until I retire ( 7-9 years). I have to force wife to buy around two dresses and shoes a year.
It is easy. And saves lots of money! Money that can be used for something fun!
Action was taken in mid 80's? They replaced the gas ( FluoroCarbon?) to a HydroCarbon.
(which contributes to the Global Warming....)
A regression to a pre industrial world is not to be feared. By doing that does not mean we have to forget the knowledge we have achieved since in all fields.
I do not see a consumer society like we have today anything positive.
Of course I too participate, but (like some here) far less than the average consumer.
We can not turn back the clock, but we can adopt many of the ways and customs.
No need to import Bananas and Avocados from the Americas, or Green Beans from Africa....
Apples from NZ? Not in my shopping basket!
I buy a new pair of footwear maybe every 3 years. other clothing I keep for many years. Cars - last daily driver I bought 8 years ago, and plan to use it until I retire ( 7-9 years). I have to force wife to buy around two dresses and shoes a year.
It is easy. And saves lots of money! Money that can be used for something fun!
Actually from what i gathered on the training weekend. The advice was don't bring gear you can't afford to loose as the police will try to destroy it.... which they did. Also why the pop up tents were popular though not nessasarily ideal is because you can't put pegs into concrete and they are cheap as chips. Thanks to the police there is now a huge pile of people's belonging being put into landfill and they are complaining about the waste and cost which they created themselves!
I know of several people who lost things this way as they were given an hour to get their stuff.. then kettled for several hours so they couldn't get it even though willing to do so.
What a great and subtle way to turn the tide of opinion against them! Clever! But not clever enough. We see through it if the reports are read properly rather than emotionally.
I know of several people who lost things this way as they were given an hour to get their stuff.. then kettled for several hours so they couldn't get it even though willing to do so.
What a great and subtle way to turn the tide of opinion against them! Clever! But not clever enough. We see through it if the reports are read properly rather than emotionally.
But, seen from the other side, the Police enforced the law and order that is the norm/standard expected by society ( society = all of us. All! ).
I personally think a much better way is to join or vote for a party that has a strong environmental profile.
Us humans have fought and struggled for Centuries to get a relatively well functioning, peaceful democracy, and actions like these ER ones are non democratic, destructive and disruptive for society.
Many European countries have strong or influential political parties that work for the environment. Or that have introduced an 'environmental thinking' into the other parties.
There are more ways than one to skin a cat.
The ER way is the wrong one, imo, and will only do severe damage to the Environmental movement.
Personally, I do not care about the Political Circus. I do not like hearing or watching clowns. But I am very interested in improving the environment, even if the cost is a life of less convenience.
When I saw on TV about the first ER action, my first thought was: I wish one of these people called me up, with severe tooth ache, and I could tell him/her - Sorry, today I can not work because I am protesting against ( something). Call again next week.
I personally think a much better way is to join or vote for a party that has a strong environmental profile.
Us humans have fought and struggled for Centuries to get a relatively well functioning, peaceful democracy, and actions like these ER ones are non democratic, destructive and disruptive for society.
Many European countries have strong or influential political parties that work for the environment. Or that have introduced an 'environmental thinking' into the other parties.
There are more ways than one to skin a cat.
The ER way is the wrong one, imo, and will only do severe damage to the Environmental movement.
Personally, I do not care about the Political Circus. I do not like hearing or watching clowns. But I am very interested in improving the environment, even if the cost is a life of less convenience.
When I saw on TV about the first ER action, my first thought was: I wish one of these people called me up, with severe tooth ache, and I could tell him/her - Sorry, today I can not work because I am protesting against ( something). Call again next week.
Oh, Janne, that is harsh.
When I see this stuff I think of two regimes, both not capitalist, and not very liberal, who have done a lot for their environments.
Even to the extent of planting trees instead of food crops.
And a third one, who we fought a war to end.
But this is political talk and I try to stay away from that.
Kit you can sacrifice? Nope, I have nothing like that, I cant afford it. No protests for me.
Anyhow I have studying to do...something about Archival practice to preserve your liberties....
(Why didnt I stick with Archaeology and learning how climate/sea level changes over time?)
When I see this stuff I think of two regimes, both not capitalist, and not very liberal, who have done a lot for their environments.
Even to the extent of planting trees instead of food crops.
And a third one, who we fought a war to end.
But this is political talk and I try to stay away from that.
Kit you can sacrifice? Nope, I have nothing like that, I cant afford it. No protests for me.
Anyhow I have studying to do...something about Archival practice to preserve your liberties....
(Why didnt I stick with Archaeology and learning how climate/sea level changes over time?)
One would hope that as a genuinely caring person you would have arranged for a locum and not just abandoned your patients. If not that is just a rather intolerant nasty dig.
No, you do not get my point. They are preventing people going, or making it very difficult, to get to work.
I could be a victim of that. Not being able to get to work.
Would the patient ( ER activist) be happy with me asking him/her to wait?
I do not think so.
He/she would call and find a clinic his/her actions did not manage to disrupt.
Do you see my point? It is an example of 'not in my backyard'. OK to disrupt or inconvenience people, as long as my life is not disrupted or inconvenienced..
How did the ER people get to London? Walk? I hope so, because using ANY form of transport, except by walking or by animal, is hypocrisy.
I could be a victim of that. Not being able to get to work.
Would the patient ( ER activist) be happy with me asking him/her to wait?
I do not think so.
He/she would call and find a clinic his/her actions did not manage to disrupt.
Do you see my point? It is an example of 'not in my backyard'. OK to disrupt or inconvenience people, as long as my life is not disrupted or inconvenienced..
How did the ER people get to London? Walk? I hope so, because using ANY form of transport, except by walking or by animal, is hypocrisy.
But that was the whole point!
To bring the situation about climate change to public awareness in a big way.
Many have said that it is not the way to do it but this has been a problem for tens of years and nobody was listening... preferring to go about their business and making a nod here and there such as putting their rubbish into recycling bins... if they could be bothered. "There.. I've done my bit!While still flying halfway round the world several times a year on holiday!
Nobody is perfect and some will still need to fly for work or other reasons such as to visit relatives... but only half a century ago it was a fact that if you moved abroad you may never see your relatives again. And many did not. We didn't have email and Skype then either. Now it is nessasary to fly to see relatives... not a privilege.
I agree some have let the side down such as Mr broccoli head and the idiot on the tube train roof, but when you are passionate about an issue you can on occasion get carried away.. or (conspiracy theory here) was it someone paid by the government to do it and discredit xr. Who knows? But be aware that not everything is always as it seems!
Anyway, Britain can make enough green wind energy to power the country ... we just can't store it effectively for when the wind doesn't blow. Instead of spending millions on hinckley point put it into battery tech. Make it a point of fact that every new house built has to have solar panels to provide electric that can be fed into the gridand solar water heating too. There are so many answers out there if one but looks and takes action.. but there is always someone who says it's too expensive or we can't do it because xyz.
Did you know for instance that they worked out how to power cars with water as a fuel in the early sixties. Where is that tech today??? The oil barrons silenced the guy as he was a threat to their power base.
Had that tech been developed properly we would not have the pollution problems in cities that we have now.
People are getting fed up with pointless promises from the government that they have no intention of keeping. We've seen it so often. Can you blame them for taking a stand. Anyway it was only 10 days. Imagine if we have a massive solar flare and the problems that could cause. It will make this small protest seem like chicken feed in comparison. Try getting to work when nothing at all works. Not even the supermarket doors or tills. !
To bring the situation about climate change to public awareness in a big way.
Many have said that it is not the way to do it but this has been a problem for tens of years and nobody was listening... preferring to go about their business and making a nod here and there such as putting their rubbish into recycling bins... if they could be bothered. "There.. I've done my bit!While still flying halfway round the world several times a year on holiday!
Nobody is perfect and some will still need to fly for work or other reasons such as to visit relatives... but only half a century ago it was a fact that if you moved abroad you may never see your relatives again. And many did not. We didn't have email and Skype then either. Now it is nessasary to fly to see relatives... not a privilege.
I agree some have let the side down such as Mr broccoli head and the idiot on the tube train roof, but when you are passionate about an issue you can on occasion get carried away.. or (conspiracy theory here) was it someone paid by the government to do it and discredit xr. Who knows? But be aware that not everything is always as it seems!
Anyway, Britain can make enough green wind energy to power the country ... we just can't store it effectively for when the wind doesn't blow. Instead of spending millions on hinckley point put it into battery tech. Make it a point of fact that every new house built has to have solar panels to provide electric that can be fed into the gridand solar water heating too. There are so many answers out there if one but looks and takes action.. but there is always someone who says it's too expensive or we can't do it because xyz.
Did you know for instance that they worked out how to power cars with water as a fuel in the early sixties. Where is that tech today??? The oil barrons silenced the guy as he was a threat to their power base.
Had that tech been developed properly we would not have the pollution problems in cities that we have now.
People are getting fed up with pointless promises from the government that they have no intention of keeping. We've seen it so often. Can you blame them for taking a stand. Anyway it was only 10 days. Imagine if we have a massive solar flare and the problems that could cause. It will make this small protest seem like chicken feed in comparison. Try getting to work when nothing at all works. Not even the supermarket doors or tills. !
One phenomenon has been irritating me for decades.
In the past, you lived close to where you worked. you had to. Many factories even provided housing. Or in some cases, the whole small town was designed and services provided for by the factory owners ( example: Cadbury's in UK, Bata in todays Czech Rep.)
Today, people are accepting to travel huge, huge distances to work. Be it train, tube, or car.
Wasting precious energy, money and their time.
Son used to work in the City. He had work mates that lived in Bristol and commuted daily...
Surely it must be possible to make people to live close to where they work? The positives are: Rested workforce, happier families, less pressure on environment.
The only losers are the ones making the travelling possible.
Another thing:
Interesting watching: Over a barrel.
It is a short movie, easy to find if you google the name.
Makes you think, about the various environmental groups, including XR!
( Yeah, I need to put my Foil Cap on..... )
In the past, you lived close to where you worked. you had to. Many factories even provided housing. Or in some cases, the whole small town was designed and services provided for by the factory owners ( example: Cadbury's in UK, Bata in todays Czech Rep.)
Today, people are accepting to travel huge, huge distances to work. Be it train, tube, or car.
Wasting precious energy, money and their time.
Son used to work in the City. He had work mates that lived in Bristol and commuted daily...
Surely it must be possible to make people to live close to where they work? The positives are: Rested workforce, happier families, less pressure on environment.
The only losers are the ones making the travelling possible.
Another thing:
Interesting watching: Over a barrel.
It is a short movie, easy to find if you google the name.
Makes you think, about the various environmental groups, including XR!
( Yeah, I need to put my Foil Cap on.....
)Hasn't climate change and its seriousness been common knowledge for long before ER reared its multiple heads?
Didn't the government have a committee of various experts across many relevant fields to determine how to achieve zero carbon and the best timescale possible set in place well before ER protests? A committee that was due to report about the time of the first ER protest? Wasn't that timescale made legally binding? I think I recall that.
Seriously the awareness is there, it's the actions that's needed. I don't really see ER doing any action that matters. Of course they do say that the government UK timescale and plan worked out by academics and experts isn't quick enough or enough. They plucked a date out of the air and declared 2025 or else. Sorry that last bit is just an expression of my gut feeling that they're planning on holding London to ransom until they give them their ridiculously short 5 and a bit year long timescale to because zero carbon.
Can you see why I find the ER protest pointless?Since they don't seem to offer a real solution that can be achieved and certainly not any way of getting there.
I bet there's many people like me who want to know the way to make the change to our modern society to get there. That message is what is needed. However that message cannot be taken on board at the wrong end of a gun. Protests like ER are like a gun to collective heads of people, especially those where protests are happening.
Sorry but this is all becoming political. I'm not the only guilty one here.
Didn't the government have a committee of various experts across many relevant fields to determine how to achieve zero carbon and the best timescale possible set in place well before ER protests? A committee that was due to report about the time of the first ER protest? Wasn't that timescale made legally binding? I think I recall that.
Seriously the awareness is there, it's the actions that's needed. I don't really see ER doing any action that matters. Of course they do say that the government UK timescale and plan worked out by academics and experts isn't quick enough or enough. They plucked a date out of the air and declared 2025 or else. Sorry that last bit is just an expression of my gut feeling that they're planning on holding London to ransom until they give them their ridiculously short 5 and a bit year long timescale to because zero carbon.
Can you see why I find the ER protest pointless?Since they don't seem to offer a real solution that can be achieved and certainly not any way of getting there.
I bet there's many people like me who want to know the way to make the change to our modern society to get there. That message is what is needed. However that message cannot be taken on board at the wrong end of a gun. Protests like ER are like a gun to collective heads of people, especially those where protests are happening.
Sorry but this is all becoming political. I'm not the only guilty one here.
I do not perceive the posts to be political to be frank.
As I see it, we might achieve some steps towards a lower CO2 emissions if we expand the nuclear power plants to a maximum.
To make electric energy, to ( via heat exchangers) to heat water that heats our buildings.
To achieve a Zero goal by 2025?
Yeah, about as likely that I beat Sir Mo in running.
We will never achieve a Zero goal. Not without some serious investments and a solution how to scrub the atmosphere from Carbon.
You know, all this talk about Carbon is very simplistic.
What about the destruction of fish stocks? The destruction of forests to create fields with mono culture?
Bees are vanishing. CO2 levels have nothing to do with that.
Bird numbers are down all across Europe.
As I see it, we might achieve some steps towards a lower CO2 emissions if we expand the nuclear power plants to a maximum.
To make electric energy, to ( via heat exchangers) to heat water that heats our buildings.
To achieve a Zero goal by 2025?
Yeah, about as likely that I beat Sir Mo in running.
We will never achieve a Zero goal. Not without some serious investments and a solution how to scrub the atmosphere from Carbon.
You know, all this talk about Carbon is very simplistic.
What about the destruction of fish stocks? The destruction of forests to create fields with mono culture?
Bees are vanishing. CO2 levels have nothing to do with that.
Bird numbers are down all across Europe.
Before I enlisted it was near impossible to “live near my work.” As a country boy my work location changed regularly.
One of my first jobs was logging. Obviously as soon as we logged one tract, we moved to the next (anywhere over a three county area)
Another job was heavy construction. Again, as soon as we finished building one bridge we moved to the next location (there was nothing way I was moving every few months)
One of my first jobs was logging. Obviously as soon as we logged one tract, we moved to the next (anywhere over a three county area)
Another job was heavy construction. Again, as soon as we finished building one bridge we moved to the next location (there was nothing way I was moving every few months)
you have some good points there Janne. It is very difficult to get work localy if you live in a rural environment. Buses have been cut, wages... if you can find a job.... are low, shops are miles away (I have to go 15 or 20 miles to buy clothes or anything but the basics at inflated prices)
You have to travel more than 15 miles to even get to work in the nearest town so you need a car. Not indusive to a low carbon lifestyle.
In our local village store everything has a plastic coat that just gets thrown away.
Hospitals are again 20 plus miles away.. though we do have a dentist and doctors surgery thank goodness.
20 yrs ago we had 4 drinking holes now we have two. (At one time there were seven) we no longer have a bakery and shops change almost yearly as they can't make a living.. though sometimes I wonder at people's choice of business. A steiff bear shop is the latest to close after only 9 months trading and now a florist is opening there. We have had 3 florists in the past 20 yrs and non lasted more than a year. This shop will be owner staffed with no employees. At least the teddy shop employed one person! The farm shop despite having a tea room ,closed last week too, as nobody bought anything. I'm not surprised at the prices she charged, over a pound more for the same teabags you could get in the supermarket
The shops that stay, cater for well off tourists, or the huntin' shootin' hooray Henry's £2,000 shotgun buying fraternity, where a two hundred pounds pair of shoes is the equivalent of the local persons ten pound trainers and they are happy to pay £20 for a tin of biscuits !
Lunch for two can cost £40 or more depending where you go. Cheap as chips for them. Who localy can afford that on a basic wage?
The forge is now a beauty salon.
In the 1970s the place had everything you needed. Now barely anything. So yes we do need more localism to help combat climate change. That is a good idea in principle and makes sense.. but in practice??? Never gonna happen as long as the" gentry " keep comming. It will only ever be service industry here. As long as the council allow incommensurability to keep buying second homes or turning houses into holiday let's to make money for people who live elsewhere we are never going to solve the housing shortage.
The youngsters can't stay here no work no homes no transport unless you drive a car. Sad.
Personally though, I d love to have a tiny self sufficient lifestyle... and yes I know the hard work it entails as I do try to produce as much as I can myself.
Just finished another pair of socks tonight Maybe knit a tea towel next
You have to travel more than 15 miles to even get to work in the nearest town so you need a car. Not indusive to a low carbon lifestyle.
In our local village store everything has a plastic coat that just gets thrown away.
Hospitals are again 20 plus miles away.. though we do have a dentist and doctors surgery thank goodness.
20 yrs ago we had 4 drinking holes now we have two. (At one time there were seven) we no longer have a bakery and shops change almost yearly as they can't make a living.. though sometimes I wonder at people's choice of business. A steiff bear shop is the latest to close after only 9 months trading and now a florist is opening there. We have had 3 florists in the past 20 yrs and non lasted more than a year. This shop will be owner staffed with no employees. At least the teddy shop employed one person! The farm shop despite having a tea room ,closed last week too, as nobody bought anything. I'm not surprised at the prices she charged, over a pound more for the same teabags you could get in the supermarket
The shops that stay, cater for well off tourists, or the huntin' shootin' hooray Henry's £2,000 shotgun buying fraternity, where a two hundred pounds pair of shoes is the equivalent of the local persons ten pound trainers and they are happy to pay £20 for a tin of biscuits !
Lunch for two can cost £40 or more depending where you go. Cheap as chips for them. Who localy can afford that on a basic wage?
The forge is now a beauty salon.
In the 1970s the place had everything you needed. Now barely anything. So yes we do need more localism to help combat climate change. That is a good idea in principle and makes sense.. but in practice??? Never gonna happen as long as the" gentry " keep comming. It will only ever be service industry here. As long as the council allow incommensurability to keep buying second homes or turning houses into holiday let's to make money for people who live elsewhere we are never going to solve the housing shortage.
The youngsters can't stay here no work no homes no transport unless you drive a car. Sad.
Personally though, I d love to have a tiny self sufficient lifestyle... and yes I know the hard work it entails as I do try to produce as much as I can myself.
Just finished another pair of socks tonight Maybe knit a tea towel next
In Sweden, workers in those jobs usually live in provided trailers ( kind of trailers)
Did you have to travel 1.5 to 2 hours each morning, and the same each evening?
A bit of both. Yes, the company supplied a trailer (at least the construction company did) that said, the trailer was nothing more than a temporary dormitory where 8 construction workers were housed during the work week. We all went home to our families on the weekend. At least some of the time we stayed in the trailers during the work week. Other times (whenever the drive was less than 2 hours each way) we’d just drive every day.
As far the logging job, my uncle WAS the “company.” The entire company consisted of him, his two teenage sons, and me. That was the way logging worked back then: you bought a 10 year old truck, arranged to buy timber from small landowners, and sold it to the nearest mill.
Both jobs were as a teenager back in the early and mid 1970s.
Sounds like my grandad's dad and uncle. Logging family that ended with great grandad up near Canadian border. Another time, another lifestyle.
Heard a few stories. Hard men for a hard life. At least my great grandad got let off an afternoon to watch his brother die after a kick back. Then store the body until it could go down with the truck. No medical facility within weeks journey. Injuries kill and not even serious ones by modern standards. Death could take time too. Probably not like your logging times, a bit before your time I suppose. Logging camps lasting a season I think.
Puts times into perspective. Less clutter and damage to the world but dying young a serious risk. It's like we've created our own first world problems then exported it around the world.
Heard a few stories. Hard men for a hard life. At least my great grandad got let off an afternoon to watch his brother die after a kick back. Then store the body until it could go down with the truck. No medical facility within weeks journey. Injuries kill and not even serious ones by modern standards. Death could take time too. Probably not like your logging times, a bit before your time I suppose. Logging camps lasting a season I think.
Puts times into perspective. Less clutter and damage to the world but dying young a serious risk. It's like we've created our own first world problems then exported it around the world.
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