Knife law,a question

[gunslinger]

Rather than tack this on to the existing thread,as it is getting a bit long,I thought this question worthy of another.

As it stands knives (even some that are now illegal to buy,sell or gift ) are perfectly legal for you to have in your own home. But not in your vehicle without due reason at that time.

Where do you stand if you live in a motorhome ?

This is not a pedantic question but directly relevant to me ,as I do live often for several months in a camper.

Thanks
GS

 

[Simon]

It needs a test case

 

[wanderingblade]

Off the top of my head I'd have to say a vehicle is a vehicle - whether its a car, van, caravan or motorhome.

If the Caravan / Motorhome is on a permenant pitch that has a resiential address that may change though.

 

[Nagual]

As we've seen in the previous thread, I doubt there is anyone here who is qualified to give you the correct and full answer. No doubt there will be lots of opinions on it, but the only way for you to get an answer that you'd be happy was correct would be to contact the government directly. You could try here: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/. Good luck, I'm awaiting a reply with regarding carrying knives in public / on public transport. I'll not hold my breath as asphyxiation isn't nice.

 

[BorderReiver]

"Good reason" will apply here.

Knives in the kitchen area of the van won't get a second look.

If you have a bushy type knife on the seat or dashboard, you will be in possession of a knife in a public place. If you're parked in the street and a passing copper (not likely these days) sees it, he could quite reasonably arrest you for possession and then you would have a chance to get your answer in court.

IMO.

 

[widu13]

Easy one- there's already test case(s) on this one. If you are living in your vehicle it becomes your dwelling, hence lawful to have sharps there.

 

[BigShot]

I suggest getting onto BritishBlades and asking in the Britain, Blades and the Law section. Some of the legal bods on there could probably name test cases and give you a more certain answer.

For the record, I expect widu is correct.

 

[Simon]

As we've seen in the previous thread, I doubt there is anyone here who is qualified to give you the correct and full answer. No doubt there will be lots of opinions on it, but the only way for you to get an answer that you'd be happy was correct would be to contact the government directly. You could try here: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/. Good luck, I'm awaiting a reply with regarding carrying knives in public / on public transport. I'll not hold my breath as asphyxiation isn't nice.

HA!!!! ... just try contacting them directly .. you'll likely end up speaking to a guy called Jonathan Batt who is the Home Office spokesperson for offensive weapons

he will tell you that he doesn't know and to seek legal advice from a barrister.

Just as he has done at least 3 times with me so far, when ever I have had a question.

 

[BigShot]

Now that doesn't do anything to dispel the idea that people like him are a waste of space, time and money.
Haha.

 

[Simon]

HA!!!! ... just try contacting them directly .. you'll likely end up speaking to a guy called Jonathan Batt who is the Home Office spokesperson for offensive weapons

he will tell you that he doesn't know and to seek legal advice from a barrister.

Just as he has done at least 3 times with me so far, when ever I have had a question.

in fact I'll save you some trouble :twak:

Jonathan.Batt@homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk
Jonathan Batt
Public Order and Offensives Weapons section
Public Order Unit
020 7035 1807

 

[h2o]

I cant believe your worried about knifes in a camper!!! you can have a set of kitchen knifes in the caravan part of the van ,use common sence dont carry a murderous looking beast of a knife in the passenger seat.There seems to be a big panic going on with knifes at the moment does anyone know of a person going to prison for knife carry who wasnt a thug?The police will use common when deciding who to arrest the laws to give knife carriers jail is to be applied to the fellows that have knifes in thier pocket whilst walking round town centres with there mates.

 

[gunslinger]

Easy one- there's already test case(s) on this one. If you are living in your vehicle it becomes your dwelling, hence lawful to have sharps there.

Thanks Widu
Do you by any chance have any links or can you point me in the right direction.

I thought that may be the case as I have been told of someone holding an FAC who lives in one.

H2o# "The police will use common when deciding who to arrest the laws to give knife carriers jail" .
Whilst there are some sensible coppers out there,often the words "common sense" and "policeman"do not go together.
The reason for concern is that all my possessions are in my van when I am travelling including "bushcraft" knives and some that are now illegal to sell etc but not illegal to own in your own home.

GS

 

[BigShot]

h2o...
Prison, no (though that just means I've not heard of it) but there have been plenty found guilty and "let off" with a slap on the wrist like a small fine.

The criminal record it comes with could well be enough to cause someone problems if they work in a field that requires CRB checks (working with youngsters, adults with learning difficulties and the likes).
It could also be problematic when applying for shotgun licences/firearm certificates or for visas to visit or live in other countries.

Truth be told, the problems a record would cause me in those last areas areas worry me far more than the prospect of spending a short spell in prison.
In fact, a record like that would completely and utterly destroy most of the travel and leisure plans I have for the future - I'd be devestated.


See the examples in the other thread about people who had all the good reason in the world being dragged before the courts, and in some cases found guilty when in all "common sense" terms they'd done no wrong. You'll see where relying on a bit of common from cops/desck sergeants/CPS/courts can get you.

 

[widu13]

Thanks Widu
Do you by any chance have any links or can you point me in the right direction.

I thought that may be the case as I have been told of someone holding an FAC who lives in one.

H2o# "The police will use common when deciding who to arrest the laws to give knife carriers jail" .
Whilst there are some sensible coppers out there,often the words "common sense" and "policeman"do not go together.
The reason for concern is that all my possessions are in my van when I am travelling including "bushcraft" knives and some that are now illegal to sell etc but not illegal to own in your own home.

GS

Not at work to dig it out for you. Many disbelieve anything said here in any case. People would be as well to look at a solicitors forum to see "experienced" solicitor's opinions, such as http://www.criminalsolicitor.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3320&PN=0&TPN=2 who frankly appear to be a bunch of muppets anyway.

Law reviews are published in The Times. They may have a searchable online archive?

 

[wanderingblade]

HA!!!! ... just try contacting them directly .. you'll likely end up speaking to a guy called Jonathan Batt

Ahhh, bless him.
Looks like we both get the same response - "The Home office does not offer legal advice, ask a solicitor"

OR

"We only make the laws, we're not going to tell you how to abide by them or what they mean because we don't know, thats what case law is for!"

 

[Armleywhite]

I cant believe your worried about knifes in a camper!!! you can have a set of kitchen knifes in the caravan part of the van ,use common sence dont carry a murderous looking beast of a knife in the passenger seat.There seems to be a big panic going on with knifes at the moment does anyone know of a person going to prison for knife carry who wasnt a thug?The police will use common when deciding who to arrest the laws to give knife carriers jail is to be applied to the fellows that have knifes in thier pocket whilst walking round town centres with there mates.

Bang on. Seems a lot of people are scared for no reason. Lets face it, how many of us are stopped regulalry to be scared? I carry my knife around all the time, but not on my side, unless in camp etc, but wrapped in a pair of shorts or t'shirt in my bag. Never been stopped, no reason to be. Even if Isee a copper i don't stop and run the toehr way, why would I? I don't even think about the knife in my bag cos there is no reason to!!!!!

When in the caravan with the family I have my knife AND my small forrest axe, both are used extensively, but when not in use are kept under the bed, out of the way of anybody! Again, police are not likely to raid the van are they.

The only people that should worry are the idiots that carry a "blade" on a night out.

 

[BigShot]

Of course, you don't need to be stopped regularly - just once.

You might have "no reason to be stopped" but nowhere in the UK does that mean you won't be... especially if you go into town centres, train stations and the likes. With the current trend of metal detector arches and the likes in train/tube stations the random/compulsary search has become a reality for all demographics. Not that it wasn't already when you consider random vehicle searches.

Armleywhite - while I agree that your approach is completely sensible, and I personally have no problem with it, you should be aware that having any knife (other than the sub 3" non locking folder) on you without specific good reason is completely illegal and if you were to be stopped you'd be facing prosecution.

If you're ok with that risk then that's perfectly fine, but suggesting that the only people who need worry are thug types, or that people will be fine as they'll probably never be searched is somewhat misleading.

Again, I've got no problem with people carrying knives, but that's why i resent the way the law is both framed and implemented.

 

[Fraxinus]

I too have a camper or motorhome (dependant on your definition) and carry on board a range of knives, saws and a large axe.
Most are for cooking tasks and filleting fish etc, the saws and axe are for cutting fire wood (for the Son of Hibachi BBQ), or as has happened to me clearing a road of a fallen tree. I was helped with the latter task by a Cretan farmer who loaded as much as possible onto his pickup truck.
So far I have never been accosted by either the police or the customs people for them being on board, though having been searched on several occassions entering the UK.( with exactly what I left with, without a search)
As far as I am concerned it is a home from home: therefore I have a just and legal reason for them to be there.

Fraxinus

 

[Armleywhite]

Bigshot, I was'nt meaning to infer that I have nothing to worry about and will carry a knife regardless, but that even if a metal detector picked it up, I'm pretty sure the police / authority would see that it wrapped up and not in easy reach of being used, hence no threat. I have been practicing martial artist for over 30 years now (and I'm still no good at it ) and the law states that weapons, ie, nunchuka ,swords etc can be carried, but wrapped, as I already mentioned, and not able to be used. Ie, having to stop, open your bag, retreive the bundle from the bottom, unwrap and start to use. If a police officer stopped me and found me to be carrying weapons as such described they would not, well they shouldn't, arrest me for having, what the law terms an offensive weapon.

Surely this would apply to the knife being carried in such a way? I also wasn't inferring that the only people to worry were thugs etc, but anyone carrying a knife in a flagrant abuse of the law, ie, in open and easy to use, etc. Does that make sense? Cheers

 

[BigShot]

Armleywhite, it makes perfect sense.

I'm pretty sure the law relating to martial arts weapons only allows them to be carried to and from home, training, competitions or repair places, doesn't it? Basically you can carry it from one place to another.
I can see no problem (currently) on that front with bushcraft tools. If you're taking them from one place to another (whether to use them legitimately, show them off at a friend's house, sell them, whatever) you've got (as far as I can tell) "good reason".
If however, and this is how I read your previous post, you're carrying it wrapped up as a matter of course, I can't see wrapping it in a bit of clothing helping any. Maybe I misread what you were saying, but if not that's an issue I think.