Spacemonkey said:
They are easier to explain away than pick-axe handles.
Dont worry though, I'm sure we'll get round to banning them eventually.
knife amnesty
- Thread starter bazil
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They are easier to explain away than pick-axe handles.
Dont worry though, I'm sure we'll get round to banning them eventually.
As a person who does collect swords and knives.....(live and show)....also a person who has seen one funeral and three court cases in the last year, concerning friends who were victims t' the ' knife culture ' of our streets t'day........I think the 'amnesty' was a complete waste of time.......as has been said b4......the knife isn't the problem....the muppet 'behind' the knife is......regrettably we all have the potential t' be the muppet.....given the right 'push'.
(nice avatar Spacemonkey....
)
(nice avatar Spacemonkey....
)Well said, Longstrider. What thoughts on it being a fork amnesty next?
And, Scuba Pete, at home in South Africa none of the criminals handed in their guns, either. They are even targeting the police these days and robbing them of their arms.
Here in the US people wisely uphold some amendment that allows for the ownership of guns. Personally I prefer none to be around me, but have no problems with someone else collecting them or using them to hunt.
Not only does Texas have gun ownership, they licence concealed carry permits to people without criminal records. The crime rate dropped considerably after the permits, and I understand that out of tens of thousands with the permits there have been a mere handful of people charged with a firearms crime.
Wasn't really interested in knives until I saw a very pretty pair for swap here. Had no idea that knives could be works of art.
It's a shame.
And, Scuba Pete, at home in South Africa none of the criminals handed in their guns, either. They are even targeting the police these days and robbing them of their arms.
Here in the US people wisely uphold some amendment that allows for the ownership of guns. Personally I prefer none to be around me, but have no problems with someone else collecting them or using them to hunt.
Not only does Texas have gun ownership, they licence concealed carry permits to people without criminal records. The crime rate dropped considerably after the permits, and I understand that out of tens of thousands with the permits there have been a mere handful of people charged with a firearms crime.
Wasn't really interested in knives until I saw a very pretty pair for swap here. Had no idea that knives could be works of art.
It's a shame.
Well, to play devil's advocate for a minute...
The above reasoning is fine only as long as you assume that all violent crime is premeditated. It completely falls apart when you consider that most violent crime is not premeditated - it's executed on the spur of the moment with whatever comes to hand. If the item that comes to hand is a knife or a gun, then the outcome can be very different to what would have happened if they weren't to hand. A drunken argument that otherwise would've ended up with a bit of shoving and possibly a wild punch or two suddenly becomes a deadly situation if one or both of the combatants has a gun in his / her hand. And that's deadly to anyone unlucky enough to be in range, not just the people invovled in the fight to begin with.
However, I would absolutely agree that the so-called "knife amnesty" was a useless publicity stunt.
gregorach said:Well, to play devil's advocate for a minute...
The above reasoning is fine only as long as you assume that all violent crime is premeditated. It completely falls apart when you consider that most violent crime is not premeditated - it's executed on the spur of the moment with whatever comes to hand. If the item that comes to hand is a knife or a gun, then the outcome can be very different to what would have happened if they weren't to hand. A drunken argument that otherwise would've ended up with a bit of shoving and possibly a wild punch or two suddenly becomes a deadly situation if one or both of the combatants has a gun in his / her hand. And that's deadly to anyone unlucky enough to be in range, not just the people invovled in the fight to begin with.
However, I would absolutely agree that the so-called "knife amnesty" was a useless publicity stunt.
A fair point - but I personally feel aggreived to be denied reasonable personal freedoms IN CASE someone else feels like getting wazzed up and having a pop at someone - it isnt fair and isnt just IMHO.
I am on a bit of a soapbox having just given up the fight to enjoy the right to a peaceful afternoons target shooting and surrendered the firearms cert that i have held since 1988. Its just too costly and too much trouble to maintain. (deliberately made so by the police and home office of course). I have struggled through years of red tape and spiralling costs to keep it ever since hungerford. Hanging on to the shotgun though - for now
thanx guys.....you confirm everything that i thought....nanny state et cetera.....give us anything sharp you have......if you want anything cutting just ask and well havit done for you within two weeks
anyways....a copper should know that blunt objects caus a load of harm....and that dont include the nightstick
grrrrr grumble grumble grumble
dont worry
its only gonna get worse
anyways....a copper should know that blunt objects caus a load of harm....and that dont include the nightstick
grrrrr grumble grumble grumble
dont worry
its only gonna get worse
And this gem of an observation is based on what fact?bazil said:
So how does a discussion on the relative merits of a knife amnesty become an anti-police rant?
Look gentlemen, by all means discuss these issues, but please try an inject some element of measure and balance.If you want this thread to stay open ...or others like it, then at least occasionally inject the odd salient comment into the purely political invective. Anti-police comments are going to get locked down almost immediately.
grrrr grumble grumble grumble
sorry...was having a grumble......didnt mean to sound like i was being anti police....good decent honest upstanding types that some of them are
3201 people died on UK roads in 2005
car amnesty anyone?
3201 people died on UK roads in 2005
car amnesty anyone?
Well, I don't subscribe to the "knives = bad". That said, I do subscribe to the "knives + alcohol + argument = bad", so fair enough if pubs and clubs search people for weapons.
As for the knife amnesty, well, as many people have said, you can dispose of these items at a police station any time; probably safer than throwing sharps into the regular rubbish.
I think its a shame where we have a culture that involves getting drunk and fighting, but it is not a new thing: my grandfather desribed just the same happening in 1920s Chelmsford.
As for the knife amnesty, well, as many people have said, you can dispose of these items at a police station any time; probably safer than throwing sharps into the regular rubbish.
I think its a shame where we have a culture that involves getting drunk and fighting, but it is not a new thing: my grandfather desribed just the same happening in 1920s Chelmsford.
I don't see an anti police rant, what I do see is the police manipulating media and politicians.
First we have Home Office figures indicating the number of occasions when a knife was reported at the scene of a crime not when it was used as a weapon as is the popular interpretation.
From these figures it is not possible to identify the type of knife ie. dinner knife or sword. However it is acknowledged that the majority of assaults with a knife are in the home with kitchen knives against family members.
Home Office figures also show that the level of reported crime where a knife was reported have not increased over the past five years and prior to that it is not possible to compare figures because the recoding criteria have changed.
I watched closely as on local TV a large bin containing surrendered knives was emptied on the floor to illustrate how many lethal weapons had been surrendered, an officer then searched thru to find a katana, kukri and ornate looking dagger. What could also be seen clearly by anyone watching was that the majority of the items left on the floor were domestic kitchen knives and gardening tools along with a selection of old pocketknives.
Now I dont have a problem with the police but would much prefer them to police the laws that we have and not get involved in politics.
First we have Home Office figures indicating the number of occasions when a knife was reported at the scene of a crime not when it was used as a weapon as is the popular interpretation.
From these figures it is not possible to identify the type of knife ie. dinner knife or sword. However it is acknowledged that the majority of assaults with a knife are in the home with kitchen knives against family members.
Home Office figures also show that the level of reported crime where a knife was reported have not increased over the past five years and prior to that it is not possible to compare figures because the recoding criteria have changed.
I watched closely as on local TV a large bin containing surrendered knives was emptied on the floor to illustrate how many lethal weapons had been surrendered, an officer then searched thru to find a katana, kukri and ornate looking dagger. What could also be seen clearly by anyone watching was that the majority of the items left on the floor were domestic kitchen knives and gardening tools along with a selection of old pocketknives.
Now I dont have a problem with the police but would much prefer them to police the laws that we have and not get involved in politics.
I wonder if by having an amnesty, it gives some people a chance to unload unwanted knives from their boxes hidden in the back closet. Nobody has mentioned yet about criminals possibly breaking into otherwise decent homes with law abiding citizens that happened to have an old knife tucked away, they didn't know what to do with, and having the theif steal it to sell of to the darkside.
This happens here in Canada with guns being stolen from otherwise decent people and the guns then being used in a major crime. We have a gun registry here that pretty much tags only the hunters and shooting range folks, since the criminals obviously would never be involved in registration...
just my 0.02c worth :togo:
~mike
This happens here in Canada with guns being stolen from otherwise decent people and the guns then being used in a major crime. We have a gun registry here that pretty much tags only the hunters and shooting range folks, since the criminals obviously would never be involved in registration...
just my 0.02c worth :togo:
~mike
stone said:
I cant really see it mate. Guns yes with macho, cost and desire to do bad things they become desireable and you tend not to have soo many in the house but everybody has dozens of knives of various sorts, and you can pick up any number of saw back. bowie style 'survival' knives for less that a tenner on e-bay with no questions asked.
Nick
gregorach said:Well, to play devil's advocate for a minute...
A drunken argument that otherwise would've ended up with a bit of shoving and possibly a wild punch or two suddenly becomes a deadly situation if one or both of the combatants has a gun in his / her hand. And that's deadly to anyone unlucky enough to be in range, not just the people invovled in the fight to begin with.
I just read this an thought "hang on a minute". With the laws that we had in place before the banning of hand guns this situation isn't very likely, with the current gun laws meaning that the normal law abiding citizen being able to own "Longs" meaning rifles and shotguns this is even more unlikely.
How does the situation go, "right then I am off down the pub with my 12gauge in my trouser pocket" then you get into a fight and lo and behold your adversary pulls a Remington 700BDL out of his pocket and you are forced to pull the 12 Gauge from your pocket that's the full length of your trouser leg, in true quick draw McGraw fashion.
In the end we all agree that the knife amnesty was pretty much a farce.
The majority of stabbings happen in the home with kitchen implements, but things like screw drivers and pens have been used, they are all listed under knife crime.
Knives and guns do not attack or kill people, they are inanimate objects with no will of thier own, they are tools that in the right hands are things of wonder and great skill, people kill people, as a tool only becomes a weapon in the mind of the person weilding it.
leon-1 said:
That particular comment was in response to someone bringing up Texas' concealed carry laws, so it's in a US context, not UK.
However, the same principle could be said to apply to any "weapon" carried routinely, such as the stanley knives so popular with the "chavs". They may not go out planning to injure a specific person, but end up injuring someone anyway.
It was just an attempt to point out the flaw in the oft-mentioned (and entirely true) idea that if someone intends to injure / kill someone else, they will find a way to do it. It's true, but it's far from being the whole story.
i bought some screwdrivers recently and the young lady behing the counter said "you are over 16 arnt you" apparently you have to be over 16 to buy a screwdriver
personally....i think things are getting a bit over the top
i bought screw drivers when i was under 16
i bought various knives also under 18
ive never harmed anyone and dont think i ever would but i like to carry a knife in case something needs cutting, if i get caught with it then its likely to be seen to be a weapon
maybe i should carry a scissor
personally....i think things are getting a bit over the top
i bought screw drivers when i was under 16
i bought various knives also under 18
ive never harmed anyone and dont think i ever would but i like to carry a knife in case something needs cutting, if i get caught with it then its likely to be seen to be a weapon
maybe i should carry a scissor
I think many of us are missing the point here. There is a common thread through many of the posts above about 'society'; namely:
a. That society needs to change because it's not the knife that is dangerous, it's the person wielding it.
and
b. We should be allowed to carry knives around wherever we want for 'legitimate' reasons.
Let's get something straight here: a knife is a tool, but it's also a sharp tool which can cause death or serious injury, regardless of what it is designed for.
Yes, the Allan Wood knife (or equivalent) is somewhat different in purpose to the Fairburn-Sykes but they are still seen as the same in the eyes of the law if you carry one down the high street. There are plenty of idiots around who see knives as a weapon only, so you can argue as long as you want about the 'legitimacy' of some knives over others, and how it's 'not right' that you get punished for other people's stupidity. It will not change things.
Face facts: society does not accept that the carrying of a knife in an urban situation - or even in popular parts of the countryside - is a reasonable thing to do; especially if it is visible. There is little point in much of the discussion above because attitudes are not going to change.
If you want to practice bushcraft, then do it in places where you have permission to carry a knife or somewhere discrete and away from an easily-alarmed public. That frequently means carrying a knife in the bottom of a bergen/rucsac and not on your belt or around your neck. It is a compromise that we have to make when we live in the UK. Why do you need to get to it so quickly, anyway? Let's be sensible about this: we're unlikely to have to fight off any wild animals in the UK.
If you think society is suddenly going to change, then you are living in dreamland. We must accept that we cannot do whatever we want, especially when it comes to knives - if you cannot accept this, then perhaps you need to be arrested and charged in order to get the point across. We exist in a real world, surrounded by people who do not think as many of us do. It may not seem fair but it's real.
Re-read some of the posts above and re-think: don't be naive.
Sorry if this all sounds a bit harsh but we have been around this buoy so many times on this forum. And, frankly, is there not more to bushcraft than knives?
a. That society needs to change because it's not the knife that is dangerous, it's the person wielding it.
and
b. We should be allowed to carry knives around wherever we want for 'legitimate' reasons.
Let's get something straight here: a knife is a tool, but it's also a sharp tool which can cause death or serious injury, regardless of what it is designed for.
Yes, the Allan Wood knife (or equivalent) is somewhat different in purpose to the Fairburn-Sykes but they are still seen as the same in the eyes of the law if you carry one down the high street. There are plenty of idiots around who see knives as a weapon only, so you can argue as long as you want about the 'legitimacy' of some knives over others, and how it's 'not right' that you get punished for other people's stupidity. It will not change things.
Face facts: society does not accept that the carrying of a knife in an urban situation - or even in popular parts of the countryside - is a reasonable thing to do; especially if it is visible. There is little point in much of the discussion above because attitudes are not going to change.
If you want to practice bushcraft, then do it in places where you have permission to carry a knife or somewhere discrete and away from an easily-alarmed public. That frequently means carrying a knife in the bottom of a bergen/rucsac and not on your belt or around your neck. It is a compromise that we have to make when we live in the UK. Why do you need to get to it so quickly, anyway? Let's be sensible about this: we're unlikely to have to fight off any wild animals in the UK.
If you think society is suddenly going to change, then you are living in dreamland. We must accept that we cannot do whatever we want, especially when it comes to knives - if you cannot accept this, then perhaps you need to be arrested and charged in order to get the point across. We exist in a real world, surrounded by people who do not think as many of us do. It may not seem fair but it's real.
Re-read some of the posts above and re-think: don't be naive.
Sorry if this all sounds a bit harsh but we have been around this buoy so many times on this forum. And, frankly, is there not more to bushcraft than knives?
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