Is it the Moon?

[spiritofold]

I still think the moon and its affects on people is a grey area. I'd love to be able to go back in time and see how prehistoric people tackled this subject, their own thoughts about the effects of the moon on people and the planet

 

[LazySod]

All of this debating makes great reading,:You_Rock_ but as a layman, could you all step it down a level with the big words and quotes. Better still can you all speak like pirates (that was a great thread too).:swordfigh


Don't blame me, blame the moon.

 

[sam_acw]

Can't remember where I heard it but I've come across a good quote - that science may be able to explain how things work but it cannot really explain why.
Further to the comment about this time of year being typical for some "heated" discussions and less than usual behaviour why could that be? Is the reduction of daylight hours giving everyone SAD or could it be a change in the weather?
Perhaps it is no coincidence that the end of the month sees a few autumnal festivities - kicking off with Halloween and its celtic predecessors such as Samhain, going into All Saints the next day. In many countries this means carnival time - in Britain of course there's bonfire night. Maybe we all need a bushcraft celebration day in the autumn.
LazySod, I do empaphise with you concerning the Latin, French, Greek etc. as my school decided I was better of studying text books on PE than doing classical languages. Aside from copy and paste and sticking it in google I don't know what to suggest. I guess that living in a country where I don't expect to understand everything means I don't worry too much if I don't get all of a quote.
Although it concerns Novmber I thought this poem may add some food for throught for us all considering this too

No
No sun--no moon!
No morn--no noon!
No dawn--no dusk--no proper time of day--
No sky--no earthly view--
No distance looking blue--
No road--no street--no "t'other side this way"--
No end to any Row--
No indications where the Crescents go--
No top to any steeple--
No recognitions of familiar people--
No courtesies for showing 'em--
No knowing 'em!
No traveling at all--no locomotion--
No inkling of the way--no notion--
"No go" by land or ocean--
No mail--no post--
No news from any foreign coast--
No Park, no Ring, no afternoon gentility--
No company--no nobility--
No warmth, no cheerfulness, no healthful ease,
No comfortable feel in any member--
No shade, no shine, no butterflies, no bees,
No fruits, no flowers, no leaves, no birds--
November!

-- Thomas Hood​

I know this thread has gone rather but I'm really enjoying it - guys :You_Rock_ , lets keep it up

 

[Tadpole]

I think people mix up the difference between what is real, and what they perceive to be real. When you drop a stone down a deep well, it hits the bottom even if you never hear it. When a tree falls unnoticed in a forest, it still make crashy cracky falling over noises.
People perceive that X makes them behave differently, so they think it is real. It isn’t real but the perception that it is real is there, so it affects peoples behaviour, and ends up being a self-fulfilling belief.
Some people argue that what we see around us is not real, it’s just how we perceive it, I think people have they have it the wrong way round. What we have around us is real, what is not real is our understanding, our perception.
The object in the sky called the moon has no affect on the human emotions, the perception that the moon affects they way people behave, does, This pre-conceived idea is what causes the ‘effects’ that people notice.
The ‘expectation’ that A&E will be busier when the moon is full will make the staff more aware how busy they are, and they notice more, so they perceive that they are busier.

 

[spiritofold]

I kind of liken the feeling of the moon and its effects to that of the another thing that was chatted about on here, that strange feeling you sometimes get in the woods. Of not being welcome or ill at ease with the surroundings, but you just dont know why, but the feeling is definately there!

Maybe it comes from something way back in prehistory, maybe its the same with the moon?

 

[Tadpole]

Can't remember where I heard it but I've come across a good quote - that science may be able to explain how things work but it cannot really explain why.

To ask why implies a belief in a reason, when in reality (IMHO) we are the end result of a awful lot of failed evolutionary dead ends.

snip ......Of not being welcome or ill at ease with the surroundings, but you just dont know why, but the feeling is definately there! snip......

I think that the sense of unease is something within you; it has nothing to do with where you are, it has more to do with who you are.
When you are in nature, you are less distracted by your own perceptions of where you are, so you take with you a heightened sense of being in a different place. You expect to feel different therefore you do feel different.
People often ask, “Why are we here?” And “What is the meaning of Life” they claim to look for answers, but they are really looking for reassurance. The reason we are ‘here’ was (partially) explained by Darwin. We are here because we out-bred our competition, and the meaning of life, if you can ascribe a meaning to something that has no plan, is to pass on our genetic material to the next generation.

 

[British Red]

Purely in scientific terms Tadpole, how do you know that people only "claim" to seek the meaning of life but are "really" seeking reassurance?

Surely unless you have spoken to them all - probably under the influence of some truth compelling technique or substance, that is merely your opinion and a matter of conjecture and not a fact?

I think that "why we are here" is a much deeper and more complex question than "does evolution happen?" and, whilst I absolutely support your right to have an opinion on the subject of the purpose of human existence, I think many other opinions are eqaually valid. Surely evolution does not prove or disprove the notion of purpose, deity, afterlife or many other subjects of faith?

Red

 

[LazySod]

..............pass on our genetic material to the next generation.

Been there, done that!

 

[Tadpole]

Purely in scientific terms Tadpole, how do you know that people only "claim" to seek the meaning of life but are "really" seeking reassurance?
Surely unless you have spoken to them all - probably under the influence of some truth compelling technique or substance, that is merely your opinion and a matter of conjecture and not a fact?

Red

Sorry I forgot to add the obvious, “In my opinion ….. “

I think that "why we are here" is a much deeper and more complex question than "does evolution happen?" and, whilst I absolutely support your right to have an opinion on the subject of the purpose of human existence, I think many other opinions are eqaually valid. Surely evolution does not prove or disprove the notion of purpose, deity, afterlife or many other subjects of faith?

Red

I feel, and again this is only my opinion, the matter 'only' become deeper and more complex, if the “we are here to pass on our genetic material” answer is dismissed.
All opinions are equally valid I agree, however in my pervious post, I mentioned that it is my opinion that perception and reality are not one and the same. A notion of purpose, deity, afterlife or many other subjects of faith, does not mean that any or all of the above are real, as in really existing.
I have not the means to disprove something that has yet to be proved. One can simple not do that. All I can say is in my opinion there is no real tangible repeatable measurable evidence for any of the above

 

[Wallenstein]

I think that "why we are here" is a much deeper and more complex question than "does evolution happen?"
Red

Bertrand Russell described the universe as an irreducible brute fact... it just is, and there's no need for why.

"Why are we here?" is a meaningless question... from the universe's point-of-view we just are.

Evolution has no need of "why"... things happen because they happen, and as a result other things happen. There's no teleological meaning behind it, any more than waves crashing on a shore have "purpose and meaning".

 

[Silverback]

Well the moon certainly makes me behave differently - when there is a full moon I walk happily through the woods at night however when there is no moon I crash into trees - I think the evidence is pretty conclusive

 

[British Red]

All I can say is in my opinion there is no real tangible repeatable measurable evidence for any of the above

We agree

I also agree that perception and reality are not the same - intriguingly with, I suspect, wholly different conclusionsa s toi the nature of that disparity and the reason for the Delta.

I've thoroughly enjoyed the ramble through comparative belief systems - thanks you ladies and gents - an amiable discourse is always pleasant :You_Rock_



Red

 

[John Fenna]

Bertrand Russell described the universe as an irreducible brute fact... it just is, and there's no need for why.

"Why are we here?" is a meaningless question... from the universe's point-of-view we just are.

Evolution has no need of "why"... things happen because they happen, and as a result other things happen. There's no teleological meaning behind it, any more than waves crashing on a shore have "purpose and meaning".

Ahhhh - postulating the non-sentient universe theory, as opposed to the sentient universe/multiverse....
Is not planet Earth a sentient creation - Gaia (sp?).
If so, is not the universe itself sentient?
Could Luna just have it in for us because a bunch of Yobs went there, left it/her polluted with their rubbish (luna lander base, flags etc)?
Was not man or his forefathersput here to learn, develop and evolve into creatures that could comprehend the mysteries?
How far have we come?

 

[a12jpm]

My head hurts. Can we just make some fire now please.

 

[spiritofold]

My head hurts. Can we just make some fire now please.

And stare at the moon, and wonder......

 

[British Red]

Ahhhh - postulating the non-sentient universe theory, as opposed to the sentient universe/multiverse....
Is not planet Earth a sentient creation - Gaia (sp?).
If so, is not the universe itself sentient?
Could Luna just have it in for us because a bunch of Yobs went there, left it/her polluted with their rubbish (luna lander base, flags etc)?
Was not man or his forefathersput here to learn, develop and evolve into creatures that could comprehend the mysteries?
How far have we come?

Now thats interesting - I'm not sure I buy "Gaia" but the "Hive Mind" in insectoid colonies proposing that a colony is a single entity rather than a collection of entities has merit I feel.......


Ooooh Existential Bushcraft

(or in a12pjms case Shroedingers Bow Drill - a cat and a bow drill ember are in a box.......)

 

[a12jpm]

BR i know of no one who could apply quantum indeterminacy to a flipant comment from a stupid scotsman - i doth my cap sir.

p.s. my head still hurts by the way.

 

[scanker]

.. and there's an exactly 50-50 chance of the automated bushcrafter mechanism successfully blowing it into flame and cremating the cat....

 

[Tadpole]

Now thats interesting - I'm not sure I buy "Gaia" but the "Hive Mind" in insectoid colonies proposing that a colony is a single entity rather than a collection of entities has merit I feel.......


Ooooh Existential Bushcraft

(or in a12pjms case Shroedingers Bow Drill - a cat and a bow drill ember are in a box.......)

Schrödinger's cat is by his own word “quite ridiculous “ he borrowed the idea from an ancient Sankhya Hindu paradox, the experiment is simple enough in itself. cat in a box with a diabolical device, 50--50 chance of triggering the device in one hour, is the cat alive or dead? The only way to know is open the box. Sure fine in theory, but if after an hour the device is triggered the cat is dead whether or not “you” know it. The cat isn’t alive until you open the box, it’s dead, an ex cat, there is nothing uncertain about the dead cat. If the device doesn’t trigger, then the cat is alive, even if “you” don’t know it. The cat knows it is alive and in a box.

Hive mind.....I forsee a problem with that, as half the hive don't understand the other half

 

[BorderReiver]

Now thats interesting - I'm not sure I buy "Gaia" but the "Hive Mind" in insectoid colonies proposing that a colony is a single entity rather than a collection of entities has merit I feel.......


Ooooh Existential Bushcraft

(or in a12pjms case Shroedingers Bow Drill - a cat and a bow drill ember are in a box.......)

The cat would pee on the ember and you would have no fire.

Quantum? Pah!