Indeed. I didn't ask to be born White but now I have been advised of this notion of original sin.Too white (whatever that really means) and not woke enough or a member of the alphabet soup.
How to encourage diversity in bushcraft
- Thread starter Buckshot
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Yep! 100% spot on. With the diversity already in schools the natural inclusivity of the outdoors will show for itself.
The "elderly" rock 'n Roller, Ted Nugent, has a very large country property.
On a weekly basis, he brought groups of inner city teens (of all races) to stay for a week and do some sorts of off grid living challenged. Those, he video'ed for a TV series. Shooting computers was quite funny.
The best episode was a very big chest of herbs and spices. And a crate of live chickens. Make supper for everyone. Well! The shirt was flying! As it turned out, one very quiet little negro kid had all the chickens butchered while everybody else was still botching about it. Talk about rising in stature. He was catered to for the rest of the show.
In the UK, how long would it be for the NO' people to come leaping out of the woodwork and CHOKE OFF any attempts for you to do what the "Nuge" did?
I know exactly what I would say to them.
On a weekly basis, he brought groups of inner city teens (of all races) to stay for a week and do some sorts of off grid living challenged. Those, he video'ed for a TV series. Shooting computers was quite funny.
The best episode was a very big chest of herbs and spices. And a crate of live chickens. Make supper for everyone. Well! The shirt was flying! As it turned out, one very quiet little negro kid had all the chickens butchered while everybody else was still botching about it. Talk about rising in stature. He was catered to for the rest of the show.
In the UK, how long would it be for the NO' people to come leaping out of the woodwork and CHOKE OFF any attempts for you to do what the "Nuge" did?
I know exactly what I would say to them.
Interesting article there silverclaws from the Gardian newspaper.(tabloid trash)
Took it with a pinch of salt at first until I searched for New heights hiking club for ethnic minorities & it doesn’t stop there, there’s more?
I can honestly say Ive never heard of an Caucasian hiking club who asked for donations of boots/ jackets ect.etc for at least £100 each item,Just to feel the part, if there was it’d get closed down.
so why do the BAME get preferential clubs.
Do we not have Caucasians in deprived areas.
If more diversity/education is to be bought into the outdoors, then there shouldn’t be one rule for one & none for the other.
This is the wrong way to go, it’ll just breed content & hatred, which leads to conflict.
I honestly feel I have been blinkered for a long time, cheated, lied to, corrupted. All for being excepting to BAME.
Will this change who I am, will I judge people of a different race..well I think I’ll have a somewhat different approach/thoughts from now on after what I’ve seen & read & that’s pretty sad.
Took it with a pinch of salt at first until I searched for New heights hiking club for ethnic minorities & it doesn’t stop there, there’s more?
I can honestly say Ive never heard of an Caucasian hiking club who asked for donations of boots/ jackets ect.etc for at least £100 each item,Just to feel the part, if there was it’d get closed down.
so why do the BAME get preferential clubs.
Do we not have Caucasians in deprived areas.
If more diversity/education is to be bought into the outdoors, then there shouldn’t be one rule for one & none for the other.
This is the wrong way to go, it’ll just breed content & hatred, which leads to conflict.
I honestly feel I have been blinkered for a long time, cheated, lied to, corrupted. All for being excepting to BAME.
Will this change who I am, will I judge people of a different race..well I think I’ll have a somewhat different approach/thoughts from now on after what I’ve seen & read & that’s pretty sad.
OK, let's take a step back a bit. We should not judge based on one over-sensationalised article. We should judge each individual on their own merits regardless of race, colour, gender and orientation. I feel this thread is now drifting towards a direction I don't feel comfy with.
There are barriers to entry for individuals into all-white clubs and groups and so I understand why other parts of society feel they need to form their own organisations to make it work. I was also 'angered' by the statement that they wouldn't consider items for less than £100 but I know plenty of white guys that participate in 'bushcraft' who wouldn't consider wearing anything less than £200 or 300 boots, trousers that cost the best part of £200 and jackets that may be as much as £500. Hell, there's a thread on here talking about our own smock at over £300.
Don't allow articles in the news to dictate how you treat others; the writers and publishers have their own agenda - treat everyone as an individual.
Indeed , wouldn't that be a lovely thing. Treat everyone fairly and equally.
No groupings or quotas to be filled.
Your missing the point, some groups are not treated as equal. They don’t have the same opportunities so these groups have cropped up to try and redress the imbalance that exists in favour of white people.
but if we want to talk about left behind white folks, of course there are white poor people too. There are groups to help them
too I’m sure. Even the Kit Collective, spoken about in the article, says this on their website:
“We work with groups which focus on widening inclusion for Black, Asian and ethnic minorities, people with low socio-economic backgrounds and people with disabilities.”
https://www.kitcollective.co.uk/how-we-work
so they aren’t giving black people preferential treatment they are giving all kinds of people who haven’t tended to have had preferential treatment a step up so that they can enjoy some of the privileges that many people take for granted.
but if we want to talk about left behind white folks, of course there are white poor people too. There are groups to help them
too I’m sure. Even the Kit Collective, spoken about in the article, says this on their website:
“We work with groups which focus on widening inclusion for Black, Asian and ethnic minorities, people with low socio-economic backgrounds and people with disabilities.”
https://www.kitcollective.co.uk/how-we-work
so they aren’t giving black people preferential treatment they are giving all kinds of people who haven’t tended to have had preferential treatment a step up so that they can enjoy some of the privileges that many people take for granted.
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I agree with this:
If only it were the case without groupings and quotas being necessary. But it isn’t so at least someone is trying to do something about it.
Then on that - the notion of Groupings and Quotas being necessary , I respectfully suggest we will forever disagree.
Actually I think we are in agreement; there's nothing wrong with the Kit Collective initiative - after all, we're the first to criticize people going into the hills unprepared and with poor kit; it's the way the article portrayed it that rankled me. I think articles like that do far more harm than good - but, maybe, that was the writer's intension
It’s a shame that certain groups feel they are excluded from enjoying certain activities. I’m not sure about the barriers that they face, wether they are created by the individual being unable to integrate into multiculturalism or if it’s the multiculturalism not being as diverse and accepting as one would hope.
The only way I can draw a parallel is where I find people speaking in the outdoors about certain subjects, which for me as a Christian can be difficult to join without being ridiculed or insulted. But that’s a barrier for me to overcome not for people to step aside or tread on eggshells about.
I’m sure there are probably barriers for us all, but I’m not sure that exclusive clubs are the answer to the lack of inclusivity. I think the mindset of all parties needs to change to be honest, look at this forum for example... When I first joined over a decade ago I think Toddy (sorry for picking on you and correct me if I’m wrong) was about the only female here, with most members being male. Presently it appears to be more of an even split, but has anyone made a song and dance about it? Nope! That just goes to show how inclusive this forum really is, which is great!
The only way I can draw a parallel is where I find people speaking in the outdoors about certain subjects, which for me as a Christian can be difficult to join without being ridiculed or insulted. But that’s a barrier for me to overcome not for people to step aside or tread on eggshells about.
I’m sure there are probably barriers for us all, but I’m not sure that exclusive clubs are the answer to the lack of inclusivity. I think the mindset of all parties needs to change to be honest, look at this forum for example... When I first joined over a decade ago I think Toddy (sorry for picking on you and correct me if I’m wrong) was about the only female here, with most members being male. Presently it appears to be more of an even split, but has anyone made a song and dance about it? Nope! That just goes to show how inclusive this forum really is, which is great!
I see the donations thing has got to you, the charitable donations, as what is something donated if it is not charity or perhaps even a tax write off or other brand marketing potential - future sales and all that. Where you tell me of ' hill quality' what you would expect for £100, with even military surplus, possibly due to the advent of Bushcraft commanding high prices now or what I would consider high prices on my own low income, to be restrained in even that once affordable option to get 'out there'. To well understand what knowledge of 'good' kit does in terms of motivational potential, particularly so in a brand worshipping culture, where even if folk are doing what for 'the names' it's a start.
Newspapermen thrive on the conflict they create for newspapermen to be responsible for most of the divisions that exist in society.Actually I think we are in agreement; there's nothing wrong with the Kit Collective initiative - after all, we're the first to criticize people going into the hills unprepared and with poor kit; it's the way the article portrayed it that rankled me. I think articles like that do far more harm than good - but, maybe, that was the writer's intension
Yeah, I remember when you first came.. It took me a while before I realised
But that makes no difference to how I/we treat you I hope!
Do you think we should have a ballot, on whether discrimination exists in Bushcraft (as we know it), I personally can't even think how we could make Bushcraft more inclusive, as there are no barriers at all. Most of us( my opinion) are a bit reclusive in nature, thats why we like to get away do a bit of camping, walking etc, you dont need specialist equipment, you dont need special clothing, unless you are into extreme camping etc, so there is very little cost if any, to go out enjoy nature, and find a bit of peace and quiet.
The only bar there is and it doesn't matter what colour you are or where you live, is the will to get involved.
The only bar there is and it doesn't matter what colour you are or where you live, is the will to get involved.
As I said earlier on..newspaper trash.
It’s been over thirty years since l read one, so don’t know why I bothered reading the article in the first place.
Curiosity is a great thing based on facts, not one sided fake news,made up tabloid lies twisted to get a story at any cost.
I’ll never read one again, ever.
Humanity restored.
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That does sound a terrible and a horrendous experience for those women, which clearly makes the use and rightful implementation of a safe space absolutely justified.
Safe spaces must ONLY be used in absolute and extreme circumstances before it slowly become misused.
The danger of unjustifiable Safe Spaces and calling for them to be created and maintained from certain parties is that it again creates a element of segregation based upon individualistic characteristics.
As an example certain elements of society feel that language is no longer just language but can at some points become violence - not a notion I necessarily believe after giving it some serious thought.
So by conflating & confusing Language = Violence a dangerous threshold is presented that some language and ideas are violent or dangerous and suddenly people start needing safe spaces from ideas...
If you think I'm speaking hyperbolically.
There are plenty more examples out there , I've restrained from posting as the above makes the point for what i'm trying to put forth.
TRUE safe spaces are needed and should be upheld , but they need a very real and unified cross census of opinions to allow for the creation in the first place.
If you can't possess a willing and open mind to broad spectrum challenging new thoughts and concepts on a University , where can you?
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