How to encourage diversity in bushcraft

[TeeDee]

Nope, I can't see her being denied a chance to carve wooden spoons and pretend she's deep in the bush whilst she's actually 2 foot six off the A7 anytime soon.
No, my point was more about the use of language and how its often used to suggest something without actually saying it outright.
Really, that comedian says it better than I ever could, mostly because I reckon she's had a lot more of it aimed at her.

So the suggestion is that normal language - outside of very obvious extreme racial/sexual terms can also be something to be added to the derogatory racist woodpile. ?

This all seems to be very subjective & ambiguous and open to how much one may want to read into the use of language as a whole - a potential case of seeing problems in everything.


But what do I know , I'm just a middle aged white guy - My opinion would only matter in society if I was freely supporting the assertation.

 

[Robson Valley]

That's the iconic Coleman brand petrol stove. The 2 burner set has been enclosed
in an enameled green steel box for decades. There are at least 3 or 4 of them in my family. They are absolutely bash-worthy.
You need boiling water and hot food at -25C? The Coleman never fails to light.
Coleman fuel is straight run distilled gasoline with no additives.

I'm a selfish bustard in my old age. I use a Coleman 533. It's the tank off the lantern and the #1 burner out of the green box. Just a little note here. The 533 burns 1.75 hrs on HI for 10,500 BTU. LO is 6.5 hrs @ 9,500 BTU. That sucker glows in the dark to dimly light a tent.

They are not cheap.. Buy it once. Buy it for life.

 

[Woody girl]

One thing that seems to have been missed from this discussion is disability.
I have some mobility issues and other health issues that make bushcraft difficult at times, it doesn't generally stop me. I may be slower or need a bit of help now and then, but I do try to find ways round issues, and are generally fairly successful, but recent discussion with a younger instructor about a course I was interested in, ended with, I don't think it would be a suitable course for you.
So I am denied learning about something I realy want to do.
I've had this more than once over the years, consequently, if I were less than dedicated and enthusiastic I may well have believed bushcrafting was something I was incapable of.
Diversity and inclusivity seems to only go so far.
Is this acceptable?
I was at the wilderness gathering a few weeks ago. The only help I needed was help transferring my gear to and from the car, and tying off my tarp ridgeline , as my arms began to hurt with the fibromyalgia and I just couldn't reach up and tie it off. Other than that, I had no help or needed it over four days, though I did struggle getting out of a canoe which luckily the funny side was seen by both the facilitators who helped cheerfuly and myself.
Some bushcraft schools need to be more inclusive. Look at the calvert Trust and how that organisation helps disabled people enjoy all sorts of perceived "off limits" activities. If we are going to talk about including everyone it needs to be everyone.
I've been on one course where both other participants and even the instructors were derisory and rude to the point of bullying and insulting me. The instructor even encouraged it and took part himself. A very uncomfortable week for me. Needless to say they will not be getting any repeat business from me. I spent nearly a thousand pounds for that debacle! Wasted money.
I won't name them here, but it was run by a very well known person who is well respected in the community, ( not RM or BG) very disappointed in their behavior. Complaints resulted in more disgusting insulting behaviour.!
If it had been a first time going to something like that I would have been put off for life.
Incidently I have done courses with other schools that have been absolutely fine, and had nothing but consideration, understanding and help when needed.

 

[TeeDee]

One thing that seems to have been missed from this discussion is disability.
I have some mobility issues and other health issues that make bushcraft difficult at times, it doesn't generally stop me. I may be slower or need a bit of help now and then, but I do try to find ways round issues, and are generally fairly successful, but recent discussion with a younger instructor about a course I was interested in, ended with, I don't think it would be a suitable course for you.
So I am denied learning about something I realy want to do.

Can I enquire what type of course it was? brief description etc? Not looking to identify the course provider but more the nature and parameters of the course itself.

Thanks.

 

[Woody girl]

Can I enquire what type of course it was? brief description etc? Not looking to identify the course provider but more the nature and parameters of the course itself.

Thanks.

I'm not going to give any more details of the course as it will identify the school which is in our area. They know who they are!
I will only say it was a week long, and abroad in minus 20° so I was stuck with it!
My main point was, that very little mention of disability and including disabled people has been discussed here. It's all been black virus white.
I'm not obviously disabled to look at initialy, I think its termed hidden disability.
I love being with people and bushcrafting in a group, as I live alone, so it's a great treat to be with like minded people doing what I love doing.
And I feel safer if I get a problem, I know there is assistance nearby if needed.
I do go out alone, but I'm never as confident or adventurous as when I have company.

 

[Woody girl]

To add to the above, I have a range of skills and knowledge, but always up to learn and experience more. A bit of help now and again such as an arm when on uneven ground, going a bit slower so I can keep up, or help with transporting kit from a to b is all I realy ask for.
Yes on occasion I need some extra help, but I generally struggle on on my own, as the important thing for me is to achieve a goal I've set by myself. I don't want others to be doing things for me if at all possible, and will put up with a lot of physical pain to do so. That's my choice. But I don't see why I should be excluded at the first hurdle of booking because I have a few issues with mobility.
I'm always honest about my health issues, as nowadays you are asked to declare anything like that. On the few courses I've said nothing, I've had no problems but felt guilty.
Why should I be excluded from a course because I'm not as fit as the majority of people?where is the inclusivity in that?
If I were fit, but totaly useless they would be happy to take me!
Disability bias has a long way to go in understanding what people are actualy capable of given half a chance, and a tiny bit of help now and then. There seems to be an attitude that if you have a physical disability, you shouldn't be able to do anything but sit at home doing crossword puzzles, and knitting socks!

 

[TeeDee]

To add to the above, I have a range of skills and knowledge, but always up to learn and experience more. A bit of help now and again such as an arm when on uneven ground, going a bit slower so I can keep up, or help with transporting kit from a to b is all I realy ask for.
Yes on occasion I need some extra help, but I generally struggle on on my own, as the important thing for me is to achieve a goal I've set by myself. I don't want others to be doing things for me if at all possible, and will put up with a lot of physical pain to do so. That's my choice. But I don't see why I should be excluded at the first hurdle of booking because I have a few issues with mobility.
I'm always honest about my health issues, as nowadays you are asked to declare anything like that. On the few courses I've said nothing, I've had no problems but felt guilty.
Why should I be excluded from a course because I'm not as fit as the majority of people?where is the inclusivity in that?
If I were fit, but totaly useless they would be happy to take me!
Disability bias has a long way to go in understanding what people are actualy capable of given half a chance, and a tiny bit of help now and then. There seems to be an attitude that if you have a physical disability, you shouldn't be able to do anything but sit at home doing crossword puzzles, and knitting socks!

As your thoughts and comments are clearly passionate on this matter and this particular situation did you write to the course provider to discuss the reasons or talk about it further? You made mention that it was a 'Young Instructor' so I assume you feel that was relevant to the conversation - did you reach out to the owners/director/management to discuss further?

 

[Spirit fish]

If you ask me, Meghan M is a b***h who twisted the head of a nice redheaded man and robbed the UK of a prince. If you marry into the royal family, you start acting the part and accept that you no longer are the private person you were. Or if you can´t accept that, stay off the royalties.

The royal.family are useless money scroungers

 

[Tengu]

There, see? Prejudice.

I dont like the Royals myself, (I dont like anyone really) But I do think they do a lot for this country.

(Woody; have you tried Sailability or Riding for the Disabled??)

 

[Spirit fish]

There, see? Prejudice.

I dont like the Royals myself, (I dont like anyone really) But I do think they do a lot for this country.

(Woody; have you tried Sailability or Riding for the Disabled??)

they do nothing for this country there out dated overfunded not taxed and they own vast tracts of wilderness in Scotland that shoul ent be used just for the elites

 

[Mesquite]

they do nothing for this country there out dated overfunded not taxed and they own vast tracts of wilderness in Scotland that shoul ent be used just for the elites

They do nothing apart from bringing in tourists which generates large amounts of money for the economy, voluntarily pay large amounts of money in lieu of the taxes they are exempt from, represent the country to promote trade, promote jobs for vulnerable people by providing funding through the Prince's Trust, provide a focus for the nation, encourage young adults to take on challenges for both themselves and the community through the Duke of Edinburgh Award to name but a few things that they do which are all positive for the country and benefit it.

 

[Tengu]

You said it better than me.

 

[C_Claycomb]

@Spirit fish
Yeah...and what did the Romans ever do for us?
If you don't get the reference, you need to watch Life of Brian.

Folks the forum has rules about no politics, no religion because these are frequently flash point subjects that can make people who were otherwise cheerfully sharing tips about camping or crafting turn against one another. Such topics are a huge pain to moderate. This thread is more than starting to head down a similar road. It started well enough, but some of the last few dozen posts are pulling in more divisive aspects of society that have little or nothing to do with bushcraft.

I think the thread needs pruning, but it has become a big job, one that gets bigger by the hour while it is open, and since the thoughts of one moderator might bias them its a job that needs some discussion, which takes yet more time. So, for the time being the thread is closed to posts.

Regards

Chris

 

[Tony]

Chris has the right of it, there's no place on here for dragging in the negative moaning conversation. The thread started as a subject about inclusivity and sharing the pastime we enjoy and yet it's just gone downhill.
TeeDee had it nailed in the second post, it's a hard subject because of offence etc. But for the most part many people managed it.

Slagging people off, using the forums to pontificate about personal views be they people, organisations or other things was not what the forums were created for and not how I want them to be used.

It's definitely not fair that the onus for keeping the rules followed and keeping the threads on subject falls to the Mods, you as the members are the ones that have agreed to do that and should keep the thread on track not derail it to the point where it could take ages to clean it and get it back on track.