How many?

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Paganwolf

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jul 26, 2004
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www.WoodlifeTrails.com
jamesdevine said:
Coming from an Irish perspective I known of only two Wild-Live run by Anthonio and John Hancock of Wilderness Range. Both have shops and of other services such as bow making or guiding services. There are others running weekend course but not through formal companies like the above non of which makes the less conpedent(sp).

May I ask why the interest is purly to have a complete list of the companies out there and what the offer in order to help give us enthusiest more choice?

I hope so.

Also the whole what qualifies someone to teach bushcraft thing as been beaten to death here before as has the part time full time issue. It's a little boring if you ask me.

James

This is just my view and no else please be kind

I agree James, it is all about choice, and if people are worried that there is to much choice perhaps they need to pull up their socks and get out there and give their company a higher profile instead of skulking in the bushes hoping for better things, or if they are good enough it will speak for its self and be fruitfull anyway :D .
 

shinobi

Settler
Oct 19, 2004
517
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Eastbourne, Sussex.
www.sussar.org
Well I guess it all depends on your definition of "Professional."
Do you mean professional as in career, or professional as in attitude?

There are lots of professional plumbers I wouldn't let near my taps. But would rather have my uncle who is a professional accountant sort them out because he knows what he is talking about and won't rip me off.
As an aside, there are lots of skills where it is very hard to earn a living (Athletes and musician are two that spring to mind.) These people practice very hard day in and day out, but this won't put food on the table. They are forced to earn a living just the same as the rest of us until one day they hopefully get that lucky break and can jack in the day job.

Cheers,
Martin
 

Paganwolf

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jul 26, 2004
2,330
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53
Essex, Uk
www.WoodlifeTrails.com
shinobi said:
Well I guess it all depends on your definition of "Professional."
Do you mean professional as in career, or professional as in attitude?

There are lots of professional plumbers I wouldn't let near my taps. But would rather have my uncle who is a professional accountant sort them out because he knows what he is talking about and won't rip me off.
As an aside, there are lots of skills where it is very hard to earn a living (Athletes and musician are two that spring to mind.) These people practice very hard day in and day out, but this won't put food on the table. They are forced to earn a living just the same as the rest of us until one day they hopefully get that lucky break and can jack in the day job.

Cheers,
Martin
Can i have your uncles phone number i need my books done and my kitchen extention plumbed in itll kill two birds with one uncle lol ;)
 

tomtom

Full Member
Dec 9, 2003
4,283
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Hi Chris.. im not sure of most of the answers to your questions but im suprised no one has yet linked to this (then again they may have and i may not be reading carfully enough) you may have seen it but it may be of use if you have not..
there are a number of schools out there who are run by fledged woodlore instructers i know of three (bear-claw, wildwise, wood smoke) and its sounds like there is another due to open soon! though i think that all of the ones on that list have been tryed and tested by members of this site.

another thing you must take in to consideration on this topic is weather you are interested in schools which are exclusively bushcraft.. there are many more survival schools... which would teach much of what any bushcraft school would!
 

chris chris

Need to contact Admin...
Feb 25, 2004
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Gary, I thought that's what you meant, just the way you were saying it before kinda tipped the balance, just winding you up mate :p

Tom, thanks for the link, that's great - I don't remember coming across that before - so bcuk have already done the job :rolleyes:

So the count is 33 Bushcraft and Survival Schools (same thing to me, but that's another story) in these wonderfull Islands. WOW, I still think one or two are missing.

One point I will say is, just because people aren't talking about some courses on here won't mean an organisations courses are bad, I was at a school during the winter and they are hardly mentioned on here and the course was fantastic, and anyway, this forum is mainly made up of the
Woodlore/smoke/craft/wise/sense/claw or former RM students anyway or it appears to be, so that's the main stuff people are going to put up.

James - sorry to bore you, I will get my coat, although you could allways read a much more interesting thread, just like TV really,

Bye

(Where did the wavy smiley go - my favourite) :D
 

shinobi

Settler
Oct 19, 2004
517
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Eastbourne, Sussex.
www.sussar.org
Chris, I've done courses with several schools and am always looking at new possibilities. Who'd you do your one with? Tell us all about it. You may find that there are others here that can share stories about your courses as well. :)

Oh, and PW. I don't REALLY have an uncle that's an accountant. I was using a metaphor. Us Porters are as thick as s**t :D

Cheers,
Martin
 

chris chris

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Feb 25, 2004
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Hi Martin

The one I did during winter was Breakaway survival club, been there before but this was good fun,.

I have also been on a few courses over the years, most are mentioned on here somewhere or other, I do have favourites and also a least favourite but they are only my personal opinions. I agree with Gary, a lot of it was down to personality of the instructor and the way they brought it across.

Funny enough, my brother's an accountant, might ask him if he's any good plumbing :D

"Please bring back the wavey"
 

jamesdevine

Settler
Dec 22, 2003
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Skerries, Co. Dublin
Sorry Chris you weren't boring me it was just the whole topic of whose quailified to do bushcraft that was raised after ben's comments. So no offence ment and I am truly sorry if I have offend you.

James

PS.I also miss the wave on and the Thumbsup one.
 

chris chris

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Feb 25, 2004
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No worries James, you didn't offend me.

I too was a bit knocked back by Bens post, seemed a bit :eek: certainly one way off getting a post locked :confused:

I know the qaulified topic has been covered before, my Q was mainly about how many people were doing it these days, and is there enough interest from the public to feed them, I knew there was a lot - didn't realise that was listed either although I still think some are missing from that list.

Has anyone seen the Wavey?
 
Apr 20, 2005
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Wow, I didn't think that my comments would get such a reaction! I don't get online much so I've missed out a bit on the comments.
So just out if interest how many of the schools out there are part or full time and if part time, what is their day jobs? It would be interesting to see if they are related, e.g tree surgeon or something like that. I would presume the ones who spend a lot of time commenting on here must have office or computer related jobs?
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,937
4,570
S. Lanarkshire
chris said:
I know the qaulified topic has been covered before, my Q was mainly about how many people were doing it these days, and is there enough interest from the public to feed them,
Sorry I missed most of this, working at a castle all day (I want a chuffed smirk smiley!)

I think there *is* enough public interest; look at all of the 'Country comes to the City' type events; Tree in the Park, Bog and Moss days, green wood working, wild foods, plant uses, shelter building, basketry and willow work and the Countryside Ranger programmes.

I think the big take off will be weekenders. Friday night to Sunday evening sort of things. It will attract those who want to get oudoors, do something different as well as folks who want a gentle introduction, and also those who can't justify their family holidays becoming Swiss Family Robinson fortnights when their wives want sun, sand and nightclubs and the kids want sun, sand, 200 tv channels and plugged in free www.

The site matters but the main ingredient is the staff, and no one persons style suits everyone. Thankfully there's a wonderful variety of schools, instructors, programmes and locations......all available for us to enjoy, meet up, try lotsof new stuff, get absolutely knackered (sorry guys, I know *you* are all lean, well trained muscle raring to go, my body just says, "Try it bitch and die!") and chill out among like minded friends.
I hate to see someone's dreams get smothered, but that's life, you can only give it your best shot. Full time bushcraft instructors....not very many I suspect, but the 'part timers' are really good. It's still fun for them, still fresh and interesting, but I can sympathise that they want to do it for a full living.

Cheers,
Toddy
 

Tony

White bear (Admin)
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Apr 16, 2003
24,131
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Wales
www.bushcraftuk.com
There's quite a few more schools than I've got on the list, I probably have about 4 requests a month to be added to the school list and I get to hear of a lot more than that, I think that all over the country there are people teaching bushcraft at the weekends, these days there are very few schools that can get into the full time teaching of bushcraft.

I think there's something to be said for all bushcraft teachers, both full and part time, they've all got something to offer, the bottom line is that if they're good they're good, one could say that because the full time instructors are out doing it a lot more they're more likely to have a better skill base and knowledge, they're also more likely to have a much broader range of courses available.

Some of the part time (weekend) schools keep to very basic courses as that's the level of their skill and knowledge and although it's considerably higher than the average person on the street it's still not as good as those that have been doing it a long time or those with a real aptitude for it.
On the other hand some of the part time instructors are fantastic, they do have that aptitude and they're good at passing on information and knowledge. If people go on a course knowing less than the instructor then there’s stuff to learn, if he can give it to them in a format that they can learn from, good for him (or her!)

The bottom line is that both part time and full time schools have something to offer, there are poor full time schools and poor part time schools, you get a good one of either and it's good, that's it. As for which one of the good ones, the one that suits you! Some are very informal and some are more formal, each fits in with what people want and expect. Some will advocate that so and so is the best instructor, some will advocate someone else, it's all down to personal preference.

As for part time schools taking business from the full time schools, maybe they do, maybe they don't, maybe they make the first steps into bushcraft more attractive and the people move on to the full time schools to get a more rich experience from the different courses they offer, so, maybe the bigger schools gain from it all :eek: Who really knows, no one is going to fund a national census on it so it's all opinion and egos, each school will defend their position in the industry, members of the forum and members of the public will have opinions based on their perspective, what usually wins though is how much coverage an instructor or school can get, the more coverage the more they are in peoples minds and the more business they get, Take Ray for instance, his courses are always booked up, he's on the TV, everyone knows him.

Boy, I'm going on!!

The thing is, it's all opinion, it's one persons opinion that started this thread, probably a member of the public that doesn't teach but has something to say about it.

The big schools are generally big because they work hard at providing a broad range of courses and they employ very proficient staff to teach people, they are good and generally you've more chance of having a good experience and learning stacks if you go to one of them. They're very professional and they're concerned about making your experience a good one, their livelihoods depend on it, but on top of that they really care about what they're doing...generally!

If you find a part time school that you like and they offer all you want, then fantastic and go for it. They often set up because they love bushcraft and they have a desire to teach people, some of them want to be big schools and create an empire, but most just want to share some of the knowledge they have and make some dosh on the side. There’s nothing wrong with this, if they have the skills and knowledge you want then use them to get it and at a price you can afford.

Do your foot work, find out all you can about the schools, the courses they offer, the reputations they have, call them up and talk to them, most would be happy to invite you for a chat. Make them sell the course to you, you're the customer. Forget the politics, it's for them to sort out, you just take advantage of the best that's on offer, be that cost or skills....your decision. :D
 

ChrisKavanaugh

Need to contact Admin...
Early on into my forum duties at ETS, Doug and I noticed a strong contingent of UK members and growing resources. This really isn't suprising, Grey Owl perhaps epitomises your flavour of the pursuit and the great age of empire and exploration gave us enough Shakeltons and Burtons to shame Holywood and RANK film's pathetic attempts at action adventure. Schools and instructors in any effort tend to filter down into various philosophies, value and motive. We have the current 'Horse Whisperer" phenomenon over here. Some are good, some wretched and outright charletans. A goodly portion are 2nd generation students of the Tom Dorrance generation and show it with the same mannerisms and even phrases. In Bushcraft/Survival instructors are coming along that studied under Tom Brown , Mors Kochanski etc. I don't know if I will ever encounter somebody building a fire and be able to take chin in hand and grunt ' Tom Brown' :rolleyes: Hopefully they can build on the past, and by that I mean not selling another ultimate, overpriced bushcraft knife like the Tracker, ATAX , Swamprat et al. But, the ultimate responsibilities for good schools and good instructors is not with some buckskin clad personality chewing raw road kill. It's US, YOU AND ME. We are consumers, and if we let ourselves be bottlefed rubbish it's our fault alone.
 

chris chris

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Feb 25, 2004
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Well put Tone, and yes, you do go on - but spot on.

Yep I started the thread, I work in outdoor activities, ie, canoing, climb, teambiulding etc, but not the bushcraft/ survival industry, I dare never exspose who I work for - would love to set up a bushcraft/survival school on top of my job but I would not be able to do it part time - I would get sacked.

I have been very interested in the subject for many years but do have responsibilities that this dream would never cover, but I can't help but think some off the stuff on offer these days just does not meet the standards that I was taught to over the years.

For example, to my knowledge, there is only one school in the UK that levels it's instructors/leaders at a credited national governing body standards and to me were "head and shoulders" above others because of it. I have been on some awful courses and some fantastic ones, but, as we say, that's opinion.

Tony, have you seen any wavey smilly things round here lately? - I have lost their trail.
 

chris chris

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Feb 25, 2004
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Chris, I really do know were you coming from - I feel we are setting the same trends here.

We do have some very original "experienced" practioners in the UK, though very few and far between, but the growing trend of, " been on a course or two with such and such a famous name - now here's my school and knife at hideous prices" type of school., it's disturbing.

Hello to across the pond :)
 
Apr 20, 2005
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chris said:
Hi Ben

I've gotta ask

out of interest, do you work in the job yourself? :)

No, I'm not in the industry but I'll be blunt does it occur to those part timers that by underpricing the product they'll find that when they go full time they may not be able to make a living and have they thought about what impact they may be having on the professional trade at the moment. By profession I mean people who make their living solely from bushcraft and/or its related products.

Ben
 

chris chris

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Feb 25, 2004
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keswick
Hiya Ben

Thanks for clarification - fair enough and maybe a point.

33 schools now, Chris the prophet says "50 by the end of next year "(2006)

We may even lose some of the older - established/full time schools by lack of customers, by next year everyone will have a school or get together on their door step, no need to travel to places to learn - it's down the street in the local park.

If you can imagine a smiley wavey thing, that's me. :)
 

Gary

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 17, 2003
2,603
2
57
from Essex
Tony said:
As for part time schools taking business from the full time schools, maybe they do, maybe they don't, maybe they make the first steps into bushcraft more attractive and the people move on to the full time schools to get a more rich experience from the different courses they offer, so, maybe the bigger schools gain from it all :eek: Who really knows :D


Back in the old days when BCUK first started up I hard the same arguement from several people in the industry who complained how this forum was taking students away from them - 'why would people go on a course when they can learn it for free on BCUK? people would ask?

By the same thinking why would people go on a course when they can by a book and self teach?

The whole arguement is simply a matter of prospective.
 
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