How long does it take to form a Tradition..

[johnboy]

Hi,

Firstly this might be posted in the wrong place and might be better of in 'other chatter' but it relates to Bushcraft so I've stuck it here for now..

John Fenna has written a review of a SOTO butane lighter which is posted up on the front page of BCUK..
In the opening to his review John mentions "traditional" fire lighting techniques such as Bow drill and flint and steel.

This got me thinking I interpret Johns use of "Traditional" in that context to mean older established methods of fire lighting ( John if I have that wrong forgive me) that perhaps excludes stuff like ferrocerium rods, butane lighters, matches etc...But I did wonder how long it takes for a contemporary method to become traditional specifically in a Bushcraft sense..

Take the friction match... If I believe Wikipedia then the friction match has been around since the mid 19th century so about 180 years or so... Is that long enough to be able to say lighting a fire with a match is a traditional method??

Can tradition in a Bushcraft sense be ascribed to an item or activity after a period of time.. Or is there some other drivers or attributes required to make the contemporary traditional...
Interested in your thoughts...

 

[monkey spanner]

Yeah, good question.

what about the "ol zippo" ?, it's been about for year's.

 

[Poacher]

Zippo have been going nearly 80 years now i think.

 

[Wayland]

[video=youtube;WS7wWJyKagE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WS7wWJyKagE&feature=pl ayer_detailpage[/video]

 

[johnboy]

[video=youtube;WS7wWJyKagE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WS7wWJyKagE&feature=pl ayer_detailpage[/video]

So only 40 years?

 

[Toddy]

It's two things; it is both method, and how commonly it was the accepted method long enough for folks not to think to use any other, ie. it became the norm.

So, for instance, traditionally we use a seperate mouse with a keyboard......even though I don't or that in Scotland and Northern England, Ireland and Wales women traditionally do their baking on a girdle or bakestone. In southern England most used an oven.

One is within my lifetime, one is the time of my family for at least hundreds of years. Both are 'tradition'.

I think you have to accept that each item/ skillset has to be considered individually.

For firelighting my grandpa said that traditionally folks used a bit of flint and steel, but matches if you could keep them dry, were handy but expensive. They became cheap only when industrialisation came in.
I saw him make fire using a hand drill, but he said that was 'primitive', well he was a Victorian

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Tiley]

'Tradition' in the strict sense of the word is a belief, practice or custom that is handed down. The word was borrowed into English directly from the Latin, traditionem, meaning delivery, surrender or a handing down. So, if, say you teach and encourage your children to light a fire using a ferrocerium rod, that, technically, becomes a traditional way of lighting a fire. Looking at it from that angle, matches are most certainly traditional, having been around for a good few generations.

But that is a purely linguistic argument. Social influences will also have a say, including how widespread the use of a particular device or technique is. It seems almost reasonable to assume that, in these days of incredibly fast interactions driven by technology, Firesteels and butane lighters are 'traditional' or should that be just 'popular'?

 

[robin wood]

Very good question.

Some of our traditions like say "Apple day" feel very old but are very new (in that case created by common ground in 1990)

If you think about family traditions with young kids if you do anything twice it becomes traditional. Something like the Bushmoot, wilderness gathering or regional meets which have only been going a few years will already have a set of things that folk expect to happen which you might call traditional.

To be honest the term is about as meaningless as the word that is often used as it's opposite "innovative".

I would suggest that it is nearly always used for things that we feel positive about. It's not as common to talk about unpleasant things that we habitually do as traditional.

 

[Harvestman]

To say something is "traditional" is to say "That's how it was done in the past".

What gets me is that there is an automatic assumption for many people that traditional means good quality, or somehow better. In fact, traditional contains no statement of quality at all. Traditionally, we burned witches in this country (or drowned them, or whatever), but that doesn't make it a good idea.

 

[Stringmaker]

It takes as long as those perceiving it to regard it as a tradition i.e. something of value.

My Outlook Dictionary gave this as one of three explanations for the word "Tradition".

"The handing down of patterns of behaviour, practices, and beliefs that are valued by a culture."

 

[drewdunnrespect]

in one of my scout groups (cos i help at two) we have a rule that if you do something three times in a row on the same day and at the same time it becomes a tradition e.g we went to gilwell reunion this year and some of our group went last year now if we go again next it will be a tradition
and i hope it does me
i no this doesnt help but it sort of is related

 

[johnboy]

Thanks for the replies....So if 'tradition' in a Bushcraft as well as general sense has a broad range of interpretation and application and Bushcraft itself is equally broad in meaning and context then the phrases Bushcraft tradition or traditional Bushcraft has in reality very little meaning????'Traditional Bushcraft' could mean skills used by say the San Bushmen or Inuit... Equally it could mean Wearing a Swanndri and lighting a Meths's stove made from a Stella can.... Does that sound right?

 

[Toddy]

Is it a 'tradition' ? or a custom? though

cheers
M

 

[rik_uk3]

Thanks for the replies....So if 'tradition' in a Bushcraft as well as general sense has a broad range of interpretation and application and Bushcraft itself is equally broad in meaning and context then the phrases Bushcraft tradition or traditional Bushcraft has in reality very little meaning????'Traditional Bushcraft' could mean skills used by say the San Bushmen or Inuit... Equally it could mean Wearing a Swanndri and lighting a Meths's stove made from a Stella can.... Does that sound right?

The term 'Bushcraft' in a UK way does have very little meaning, its a new hobby using the term to cover skills lots of us did in the Boy Scouts in the 60's, or in the Survival movement in the 70's/80's or 'just did'. While the campers in the UK moved on to use new materials some folk cling to the old hence the love of canvas tents, back packs and cotton anoraks et al. Its a Jack of all trades master of none term really attracting people who perhaps are yearning for an earlier and simpler way of life. So Bushcraft Tradition is perhaps the wrong term to use, maybe Bushcraft practise would be more appropriate.

 

[AuldJum]

Used to tell the wife that if you do something once it's traditional and you don't break tradition lol

 

[British Red]

. Traditionally, we burned witches in this country (or drowned them, or whatever), but that doesn't make it a good idea.

Actually that particular cult preferred hanging people of more "traditional" religions. They quite liked burning people of a different sect of their own beliefs though.