How I spent my afternoon - 2 iron handled French clasp knives

[Mike Ameling]

I just had to get out and ... tinker ... in the shop this afternoon. (instead of heating up the forge to torture some poor innocent iron)

So I made a couple more of those iron-handled clasp knives based on originals recovered from la Salle's ship la Belle which sank off the Texas coast in 1685. I've been trying to find a second or third source of documentation for the, but not much luck so far. I've only found ... references ... to similar ones being called and used down south as "tobacco" knives (cutting pug). And a few more of those ... references ... to them being Sailor's Knives - but nothing specific enough just yet.

The blades were chiseled/ground out of a large crosscut saw blade. The handle is a piece of 16 or 18 guage that I hammered into that U shape.

The only problem making these is that I want to KEEP every one of them. They just feel so good in my hands. But one's already spoken for, and probably the other as well. Oh, well. I guess I'll just have to do some more ... tinkering.

Mikey - yee ol' grumpy blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[stotRE]

Nice workman like knives there Mike.

A questions Mike.

I read awhile back about Wayland thanking you for an 8 cent knife?( is that right) only i have been googling and cannot find an image.

Do you have any photos as i am dying to know what they look like.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Mike Ameling]

Nice workman like knives there Mike.

A questions Mike.

I read awhile back about Wayland thanking you for an 8 cent knife?( is that right) only i have been googling and cannot find an image.

Do you have any photos as i am dying to know what they look like.

Thanks in advance.

Thanks for the kind words. They are appreciated.

I can't recall how Wayland described or named the knife he got from me, but it is just like these two. Being hand-made, they do vary a tad though. But he got one just like these to use in his living history reenactment sailor/pirate outfit.

8 cent knife? Hmmmm ... I know the dollar has been dropping against the pound, but I didn't think it had dropped THAT MUCH!

Now, I have been known to make a few reproductions of the old Penny Knife. That simple bladed, wood handled with metal collar knife that was often a give-away prize at the local fairs. There's still a factory over in Austria making them - with the handles having various advertising on the handles - like a company logo/name, or a politician's name/banner to hand out before elections.

I did post some other pics a while ago under the Edged Tools forum. The should be there - but probably a couple pages down. The pics also show a couple different blade shapes.

So, yes, these are just like the one Wayland got.

Thanks
Mikey - yee ol' grumpy blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[mr dazzler]

I'm impressed with those Mike ye grumpy one
It looks a deceptively simple knife, but I bet its not easy to hammer out the curved spine on the handle for to get a smooth fair curve AND a consistent width of slot AND get the profile of the blade to fit in snugly without blunting the blade every time you close the knife.Are the austrian knive's you mentioned sinilar to the opinel ones?
Nice work, functional attractive, no unecessary ornamentation. Cheers Jonathan

 

[stotRE]

Thanks Mike,will look on the other forum.

 

[Mike Ameling]

I'm impressed with those Mike ye grumpy one
It looks a deceptively simple knife, but I bet its not easy to hammer out the curved spine on the handle for to get a smooth fair curve AND a consistent width of slot AND get the profile of the blade to fit in snugly without blunting the blade every time you close the knife.Are the austrian knive's you mentioned sinilar to the opinel ones?
Nice work, functional attractive, no unecessary ornamentation. Cheers Jonathan

Those Penny Knives are somewhat similar to the Opinel. But they don't have that swivel locking ring on the end. They are simple friction folders, and fairly cheaply made ta boot. They are and were a quick simple wood-handled knife that sold for a Penny (several centuries ago!), and were often a give-away advertising piece or cheap prize for the carnival type games. They do work for simple tasks like cutting bread or cheese, but you wouldn't want to do much ... whittling ... with one.

Yeah, making that iron U shaped handle does get a little tricky. The Sheeps Foot pattern blade version has a straight handle, but these have that slight curve to help match the blade. Altho, that curve does help them fit the hand better. When making the handle, I slip a piece of iron in between to act as a spacer when hammering the sides to shape. It's just a tad thicker than the blade is. So I can hammer the side pretty hard to get them trued and smoothed up. That curve gets a bit tricky, but just involves a little more tweaking.

They are a fun project. And no HEAT is involved. They only heat you have to worry about is OVER HEATING the saw blade material as you are chiseling and grinding/sanding it to shape. The rest is all done COLD.

So most anybody can play around making one. The important point is to just DO IT. It may turn out, it may not. But you always learn something along the way - even if it's just the current value of scrap the yards are buying/paying.

It's amazing the feeling you get when you actually use something you have made. Lots of satisfaction and contentment - no matter how nice it might turn out.

Mikey - yee ol' grumpy blacksmith out in the Hinterlands

 

[Wayland]

That was 18c as in Eighteenth Century I think you'll find....

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=354973&postcount=16

Mike, one adaptation I have made with mine is jamming a bit of leather into the clasp to stop the blade sinking too far.

It also gives a soft cushion for the edge.

Works for me.

 

[Mike Ameling]

Mike, one adaptation I have made with mine is jamming a bit of leather into the clasp to stop the blade sinking too far.

It also gives a soft cushion for the edge.

Works for me.

Hi Wayland.

Yes, several people have added that little strip of leather inside - for the same reasons you mention. Something of a personal choice.

One was concerned about that leather drawing moisture and leading to rust, but I just told him to soak that leather strip in a little oil! End of problem.

And it does help keep you from closing the blade in the handle too far. I need to do that to my personal one sometimes. Would save on exercising my vocabulary when I am having problems opening the blade because it got closed in too far!

These knives are such a fun project to make - and tend to fit the hand so well. Before I tried making these, I had made a number of fixed blade "trade" knives from those saw blades - those classic "scalper" or "butcher" knives traded to the Indians. Just carefully chisel/grind/sand the full blade shape out, and then add a wood handle. But I haven't made any like that since I started with these.

So goes the ... artistic whims.

Mikey - yee ol' grumpy blacksmith out in the Hinterlands


p.s. Glad to hear that the Dollar hasn't dropped THAT MUCH against the Pound!

 

[mr dazzler]

saw this knife Mike, thought it might interest you

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/17TH-18TH-CEN...1552QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

 

[Mike Ameling]

Yes, I saw that one on evil-bay. The seller had it listed earlier with a reserve that wasn't met, so he now listed it with a buy-it-now. Nice knife! He has come up with several more of these in the past. They are probably coming out of the Balkans - along with a lot of Roman era artifacts. The big problem is documenting them to the 17th or 18th century, and in what geographical areas.

So I keep searching for good documentation on them. In the mean time, they just make such a nice handy clasp knife. No, they aren't up to the standards of modern pocket knives, but they weren't meant to be. I have been hearing more talk about them being Sailor's Knives. Just have to find more definitive evidence.

Note on sailor's knives. Back in the 1800's and before, many of the ships did allow sailors to have/carry a personal knife, but often had a Ship's Rule that those knives could not have a pointed blade. The theory was that one sailor couldn't stab another sailor - only slash/cut him in a fight. But a practical concern also holds that with a blunt point, the sailor couldn't accidentally poke a hole in a sail or other piece of canvas - thus starting a rip/tear.

So it goes.

Mikey - yee ol' grumpy blacksmith out in the Hinterlands