goretex boots yes or not

[Ryan Woods]

Bought pair of Berghaus Gore-Tex boots. Absolutely fantastic! I was a Goretex virigin, normally going for army boots. But on a three day hike my feet were never wet, either from the bogs, snow, pubbles and swaps I wondered through or the sweat from my hardworking feet, going up and down the hills. Not looking back,
Brilliant!

 

[Ropeman]

Further to my reply earlier, I went out and got some Goretex boots the other day (Scarpa ZG10) I'll let you all know whether I change my mind after I take them up Bynack More on Wednesday.

 

[arctic hobo]

One more thing about goretex: it cannot and will never be very abrasion resitant. You can't scramble or climb in goretex boots, or even walk over normal paths in wilder places.
I wouldn't, for example, even think about trekking or walking in goretex boots anywhere outside the UK where you can rely on broad flat paths. Even my very tough leathers get a bettering on Norwegian paths, like this one (there are many others much worse, too ): http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/2667/itsarockyroadtodublin2yt.jpg

 

[falcon]

One more thing about goretex: it cannot and will never be very abrasion resitant. You can't scramble or climb in goretex boots, or even walk over normal paths in wilder places.
http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/2667/itsarockyroadtodublin2yt.jpg

Not sure this makes sense with the boots I own or others I've seen........my Le Chameau look, to all intents and purposes, like a pair of mid height leather boots....the difference is they have goretex laminated/bonded (whatever the technical term is) to the undersurface of the leather, and are no diferent from my old non-goretex Zamberlan treklites in external appearance . Both are extremely abrasion resistant.....which has also been the case with my extremely battered Aigle canvass GTX boots...still bone dry. I think it's down to personal preference in terms of personal comfort here guys.....I've got and still use both....the opinions about differences IMO are becoming somewhat exaggerated !

 

[arctic hobo]

Not sure this makes sense with the boots I own or others I've seen........my Le Chameau look, to all intents and purposes, like a pair of mid height leather boots....the difference is they have goretex laminated/bonded (whatever the technical term is) to the undersurface of the leather, and are no diferent from my old non-goretex Zamberlan treklites in external appearance .

How does the goretex breathe through the leather? Is it very thin leather or is it very very breathable goretex? Sounds a funny arrangement

 

[Rebel]

Gortex = skin of satan (IMO)
P.S. as independent research has shown that the material itself doesn't actually work i.e. breathe!

I've found that it works for me. I can be outside all day in the pouring rain, working up a sweat, without being wet. For me it makes the difference between not being able to work and being able to work.

Previously I used a variety of waterproof garments and they either leaked or they were so sweaty that I was so wet inside from sweat that I almost might as well have not bothered wearing more than a regular jacket.

Now I wear a GoreTex jacket and trousers and not only can I work in the rain but it really doesn't bother me all that much either. I'm talking about an entire day of physical work in pouring rain that finds its way through any part of my garment that isn't sealed. It might have its faults but GoreTex completely changed my ability to be able to out in all weather.

 

[falcon]

How does the goretex breathe through the leather? Is it very thin leather or is it very very breathable goretex? Sounds a funny arrangement

I'm not competent to explain the technicalities as I'm not sure I fully understand them, though most new goretex products have a card label attached with a diagram (usually gets thrown away) which explains it all. Given that the goretex membrane is very thin (less thn 1mm ?) and is designed to let microscopic water molecules (perspiration)pass through it, I guess our feet breathe through the leather in the same way with both goretex and non-goretex products.

 

[Rod]

I've found that it works for me. I can be outside all day in the pouring rain, working up a sweat, without being wet. For me it makes the difference between not being able to work and being able to work.

Previously I used a variety of waterproof garments and they either leaked or they were so sweaty that I was so wet inside from sweat that I almost might as well have not bothered wearing more than a regular jacket.

Now I wear a GoreTex jacket and trousers and not only can I work in the rain but it really doesn't bother me all that much either. I'm talking about an entire day of physical work in pouring rain that finds its way through any part of my garment that isn't sealed. It might have its faults but GoreTex completely changed my ability to be able to out in all weather.

Hi Rebel,

You are one of the few that it seems to work for There are some.

Where abouts in Herts are you based? Would be good to get you along to some of our informal wanderings.

 

[Rod]

pah membranes PARAMO rules (for me anyway)

Hi Andy,

This is now my prefered outerlayer when not around the campfire

 

[falcon]

Hi Rebel,

You are one of the few that it seems to work for There are some.

Where abouts in Herts are you based? Would be good to get you along to some of our informal wanderings.

I can understand GTX might not be everyone's first choice (and I'm one who frequently wears other materials as well) but the degree of negativity confuses me.... I wore waxed jackets at one stage (and even the rubber-type linings commonly used on farms etc) and there is absolutely no comparison with the internal moisture trapped within these old fashioned products. And back to the boots debate, after a solid day's mountain walking, my feet got equally hot and bothered in my pre-goretex days as well as shipping water (despite many coats of nikwax) after tramping the Staffordshire Way in 6 hours of continuous rain....although I was snug, warm and dry in my Berghaus. I guess we'll all have to agree to differ...

 

[Andy]

"Do cows leak?"

of course they do

sweating is afer all just water passing through the skin to a place with a lower water potential (caused by salt being pumped out using energy). Yor fingers go wrinkly after a bath because water is absorbed through them.

 

[Lurch]

Cows sweat through their noses.
Although they do steam quite a bit....
(ex-farmer)

 

[arctic hobo]

of course they do

sweating is afer all just water passing through the skin to a place with a lower water potential (caused by salt being pumped out using energy). Yor fingers go wrinkly after a bath because water is absorbed through them.

They don't leak the other way though

 

[Andy]

what? skin is a permiable membrane

sweat goes out. water from a bath (or in this case river/puddle etc) goes in. It's the treatments that you put on the leather which stop that happening.

 

[arctic hobo]

what? skin is a permiable membrane

sweat goes out. water from a bath (or in this case river/puddle etc) goes in. It's the treatments that you put on the leather which stop that happening.

I mean, cows don't let the rain in... you don't find cows blown up like balloons full of water... the only way that gets in is the mouth
I know that once the skin is dead it is less effective, but that's why it is tanned

 

[gregorach]

That's could be because they're already pretty much full...

I don't think tanning really helps waterproofness much, it's mainly just for preservation. You still need to proof the leather in some way, and anything that improves its waterproofing tends to have a corresponding reduction of breathability.

In the end, it's always a compromise. In some places the most practical boots are wellies - completely waterproof but not breathable in any way. In others, you don't even try to keep your feet dry, you just wear sandals (or go barefoot) on the basis that you'll dry out faster. In a temperate climate such as ours, the compromise between waterproofing and breathability is largely a matter of personal preference.

 

[Rod]

I can understand GTX might not be everyone's first choice (and I'm one who frequently wears other materials as well) but the degree of negativity confuses me.... I wore waxed jackets at one stage (and even the rubber-type linings commonly used on farms etc) and there is absolutely no comparison with the internal moisture trapped within these old fashioned products. And back to the boots debate, after a solid day's mountain walking, my feet got equally hot and bothered in my pre-goretex days as well as shipping water (despite many coats of nikwax) after tramping the Staffordshire Way in 6 hours of continuous rain....although I was snug, warm and dry in my Berghaus. I guess we'll all have to agree to differ...

Hi Falcon,

Apologies if I appeared a bit heavy handed

It has to do with the construction of the membrane.
Strands of ePTFE (teflon to us) is made into a yarn and woven into a really breathable fabric. The W.L. Gore folks - to make it water repellent - spray it with a hydrophillic (if I've got it round the right way) coating, which significantly reduces the breathability of the pores! It then gets bonded to a face fabric and either backed with a scrim or a drop mesh. (In the case of some GTX fabrics this reduces the breathability by 50% again! You might believe you could do better with a bin liner - depending on your body's metabolism)

By comparison eVent (Gore's biggest laminate competitor) take ePTFE, produce a yarn - then coat it - then weave it into a membrane. The breathability of the pores is maintained 100%, but you also get the performance of the coating to boot. The difference in the finished garment is off the scale by comparison to GTX. The folks that make eVent only make 2 and 3 layer they don't need all the Paclite/XCR nonsense as well - Gore were forced to produced these in response to the fact that the true performance of their fabrics was not as hot as they would have us all believe.

Sorry if I appear to doubt the efficiency of GTX (I spent 8+ years working in the outdoor industry and have given a lot of gear - from all different manufacturers - a real hard time in that time, as well as seeing feedback from customers.) I apperciate that what works for one person may not necessarily be the same for another - so if it "floats your boat" - go with it. If you get a chance to try eVent, take it - some manufacturers - Montane for instance have Test garments in shops that stock their products

all the best

 

[falcon]

Thanks for the top class technical explanation Rod, I'll certainly keep an eye open for eVent products when I'm looking out for a waterproof next time. I would never claim GTX to be perfect, just amazingly more effective than other products I've used previously in terms of a waterproof, breathable jacket which didn't leave me soaked inside after a hard days' walking or beating. I still use one for hillwalking or on my bike but find ventile more durable in the woods. As I said, the GTX boots have kept me dry where my old faithful Zamberlans (previously Brashers) eventually succumbed to rain but after a day up and down mountains I'm hot in anything. I just felt some comments were a touch exaggerated compared to my personal experience. I'll look out for the eVent products.

 

[BOD]

I bought pair of gortex lined walking boots (suede/fabric) which were nice and light and did the job, however get them wet on the inside...and I did often and they are misery as they don't dry quick!

That's why GTX boots are a hazard if you are on a several days trip with many river/swamp immersions as your feet may start to rot. On a recent 4 day course the person with GTX footwear had the worst feet.

 

[Rebel]

That's why GTX boots are a hazard if you are on a several days trip with many river/swamp immersions as your feet may start to rot. On a recent 4 day course the person with GTX footwear had the worst feet.

Could be worth trying the SealSkinz socks I mentioned earlier. Since I started using them I've not bothered with GoreTex, Hydro-Shield, Sympatex, Jontex or whatever.

Okay so they're not as breathable as regular socks, but hey they're totally waterproof and only around 20GBP a pair (got mine even cheaper in a sale).

There's a review of these socks in no less an illustrious location than our very own Bushcraft.com

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/content/articles.php?action=show&showarticle=25