Fumes from lanterns ?

[Paullyfuzz]

Now that I've made my garage into my den, sad I know but every man needs a shed, I quite like to sit in there with my lantern going . I've got a Coleman duel fuel and a Coleman kerosene lantern. An I alright in a garage with the door closed ?
I always have a carbon monoxide detector on but was wondering if it shouldn't be done ?

 

[santaman2000]

The answer is "maybe."

If the door is the only ventoilation, NO!!!
If on the other hand, there is sufficient ventilation in another form (window, vent, etc.) of approximately a square foot or more (per each such lantern) then yes.

BTW, those ventilation requirements are exactly as reccomended by Coleman.

 

[Paullyfuzz]

What actually kills ya, is it the fumes given off by fuel burnt or is the fact that in an enclosed space it doesn't matter what fuel is burnt as its the fact that without ventilation there is not enough oxygen to turn to carbon dioxide and as such causes a build up of carbon monoxide ?

 

[bigroomboy]

Its the CO that will kill you in the short term, the fumes maybe longterm. Do you have a link to colemans recommendations santaman?

 

[bigroomboy]

Also if you are going to use it indoors make sure you only use coleman fuel not unleaded. Lots of nasty things in unleaded

 

[santaman2000]

To Bigroomboy: No, sorry. Those are the requirements they put in the instructions that come with the lanterns, stoves, etc. whe bought new.

 

[Adey]

fumes and CO are separate issues as others have said

As I understand it the basic hydrocarbons are "okay" as they should break down to CO2 and H2O but additives make other complex combustion products. Stuff like Benzene in petrol are REALLY bad for you

In my view Aspen 4 is pretty "safe" (in place of unleaded) not so certain about paraffins (but that is from my own lack of knowledge). The Bartoline Paraffin I use claims to be Kerosine and Sweetened Kerosine. Basic Kerosine molecules are simple hydrocarbons not unlike Aspen, but I read sweetened to mean "full of additives" - really no idea what they are though

For CO one of these is well worth having, it has a ppm scale and will show you even very low levels way before they are dangerous, well worth twenty quid or so http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fireangel-CO-9D-Digital-Sealed-Monoxide/dp/B00441S9GS/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1348431720&sr=8-3

 

[bigroomboy]

I think aldi have CO alarms this week, but the ones without a display. Should be enough to let you know if things are getting nasty though. I intend to get one for my lavvu

 

[Paullyfuzz]

I always have a CO detector in the tent.

 

[fishfish]

been using paraffin stoves and lanterns indoors all my life and had no ill effects,ventalation is needed but you dont need to keep the window open! lol

 

[santaman2000]

been using paraffin stoves and lanterns indoors all my life and had no ill effects,ventalation is needed but you dont need to keep the window open! lol

I've got to ask the obvious; if the window (or a door, or similar) isn't open, just where does the ventilation come from?

 

[fishfish]

I've got to ask the obvious; if the window (or a door, or similar) isn't open, just where does the ventilation come from?

no house is hermeticly sealed,theres allways air comming in if there wasnt you would suffocate in your own co2,i have an open fire and that has enough ventilation with the front room door shut,and no air comes down a chimney.

 

[santaman2000]

no house is hermeticly sealed,theres allways air comming in if there wasnt you would suffocate in your own co2,i have an open fire and that has enough ventilation with the front room door shut,and no air comes down a chimney.

Fair enough in a large enough structure. If the house is as open as you say. Our building codes for new construction in Florida require that the house be pressure tested (negative pressure) by closing all windows and doors and sucking down the pressure for a set period of time with no rise in interior pressure.

Also the OP wasn't talking about a structure as large as a house. He mentioned a garage; a much more confined area.

 

[knifefan]

I always belived that, when any combustion takes place with a limited supply of oxygen the result is carbon monoxide!! A prime example is why car engines produce so much carbon monoxide - as the fuel is burnt in an enclosed space with a limited supply of oxygen

 

[fishfish]

jeez no uk biuldings are like that!

i use 2 tilley lamps in my workshop for heat and light,its 18foot x 8foot .

ime sure this chaps garage door doesnt shut airtight,i can understand him being cautious though and i wouldnt risk the petrol lamp in there.

 

[Adze]

Also the OP wasn't talking about a structure as large as a house. He mentioned a garage; a much more confined area.

True, but also far more 'leaky' and less well insulated. In my garage you wouldn't be able to, as required for FL building codes, 'suck down' the pressure unless you were using a continuous pump with a volumetric equivalent greater than the internal volume of the garag - in short, it leaks like a government department!

 

[santaman2000]

True, but also far more 'leaky' and less well insulated. In my garage you wouldn't be able to, as required for FL building codes, 'suck down' the pressure unless you were using a continuous pump with a volumetric equivalent greater than the internal volume of the garag - in short, it leaks like a government department!

LOL. Love the analogy.

 

[bigroomboy]

current uk building regs are similar with the same negative pressure test required for new homes. its all depends on what the space is like which means its impossible to give accurate info over a forum. its all down to common sense and a backup co monitor.

 

[cbr6fs]

no house is hermeticly sealed,theres allways air comming in if there wasnt you would suffocate in your own co2,i have an open fire and that has enough ventilation with the front room door shut,and no air comes down a chimney.

It's nothing to do with a house being hermetically sealed, if windows and doors are closed then the amount of oxygen entering the room is severely limited.

Fire consumes a VAST amount of oxygen, to the point where the vast majority of casualties from forest fires die from suffocation rather than burning.
And that's in a open and often windy environment.

Obviously a lamp is not going to burn anywhere near the amount of oxygen a forest fire will consume BUT you'd be surprised exactly how much even a small fire can consume.

An open fire is not much use either unless the lamp is in the fire place as Carbon monoxide is (slightly) lighter than air.

I always belived that, when any combustion takes place with a limited supply of oxygen the result is carbon monoxide!! A prime example is why car engines produce so much carbon monoxide - as the fuel is burnt in an enclosed space with a limited supply of oxygen

Carbon dioxide (CO2) is given off if it's fossil fuels that are being burnt, Carbon monoxide (CO) is produced when there is not enough oxygen to produce Carbon dioxide.

 

[bigroomboy]

so i just did a rough calculation based on a few averages and complete combustion and what would be required to maintain that, just for kicks. i work out that you need to be replacing just short of 14L of air per minute in the area you are using a coleman lantern on medium. now all you have to work out is what that means in the real worl. but that is quite a lot