At this point, I can’t help thinking that some of the bushcrafters here, would be better off running the show at the local civil crisis centre, than being in the hills with me. I’m of the opinion that ‘bushcraft’ could do with a lot fewer leaders. It’s my view that the ‘bushcraft ethos’ is about being self-reliant, not being managed.
PERFECT PAUL!!! First I would like to say, if you knew me better, you would better understand. You’d probably still puke, not to anything Ive done though. This has been survival for me.
But the question stated at the beginning of this was what and why you choose the route you would. What would I do if I walked to my hill to find a random mix of people that I don’t know well. Whats the fastest way to learn about them and the fastest way to make your point clear that you are not their leader?
ALL of us who went to the hill I feel can agree on one thing, one big part of the reason was to avoid my description I gave about how to classify random people. We DON’T want to put up with it, that is why we don’t want to go to the school in the first place, because we think that our way of thinking will provide us with a more comfortable situation that WE alone are in control of. That is what would happen there. Change the scenario again. I walk to the hill to find a bunch of bushcrafters, whether I know them or not. There would be no need for this. We would all have the understanding that each of the other families number one goal was to do what it took to survive. I would not walk to the hill to find 24 people waiting for me to provide for them. IF there happened to be a sociopath somehow in the group, he’s be shunned by all of us. He’d be the ONLY one trying to screw things up.
But my point here is; the reason everyone thinks we are nuts for NOT going to the school is the same as everyone judging me for wanting to psychologically class a group of random strangers. Why do you want to survive? What means will you take?
This can also be compared to Tom Brown Junior. You know that guy can tell a persons injuries, psychological weaknesses, what they are thinking and how they are physically feeling from their foot prints? Now for him, he would very subtly do what I just described.
Introversion doesn't mean that we don't care about others, nor that we have sociopathic tendencies, but the poll also indicated that a good number of us are thinkers not feelers, so the chances of us suddenly opening our arms to others in a crisis becomes even more remote.
And in the school we’d be tagged as something, not necessary sociopath but antisocial, unyielding, ect, because of our less than patty-clap happiness to be with our “sheeple“ neighbors.
I think all the information is valid and worth remembering. If there happened to be a guy in the group who was that bad, and I was there trying to ensure the safety of my wife and kids, I'd start laying down a plan to get out of there in the dead of night. It's not worth the hassle, so up sticks and move somewhere else and they won't know where you've gone.
How long would it take you to figure it out? Can you see a sociopath in a crowd by the look in his eye? Like stated in a quote above, bushcrafters are thinkers and it would not take long for most of us to point to this guy but sociopaths think the way to do because it is the only survive skill they know. They trust no one, ever, no matter how close, not their spouses, children or dog and they need to control them all so they are not at all unpredictable. In a random group, if you are stuck with them, it is best to find a way to figure out who this guy is. You may not have the chance to leave, and even if you do, chances are you wouldn’t outthink him anyway, and at least you are prepared to never let your mind begin to trust him. For three days, you should be fine but you wouldn’t want to let your guard down. In a longer situation, you would want to think about every angle before making any decision. You would not want to be a running lamb with an arrow in its side that you don’t know yet it there. And how would you feel leaving 23 other vulnerable people in the hands of this one person?
I got to thinking about how ancient communities would cope with idle, lazy or non conformist group members. In nearly all societies who are relatively independent of state and free from government interference, lazy, non cooperative members would be either ejected or more likely shunned by the group and denied food, social inclusion and social interaction. This usually works, and before long that member will either leave for good or more likely come grovelling back, hungry and apologetic ready to do their bit.
Im drawing a blank on the name of the show but it was said that it was the outcasts of ancient groups were the first that wandered into America. The only people crazy enough to take that risk, making a survival trait that is favorable in their genes that they passed down.
Like I said before, the rules do not always follow but I think most of us can agree on most of the following.
Bushcrafter
Don’t like being in large groups of “normal” people
Don’t like what popular culture states we should be
Want to be prepared against the unexpected
Distrust of authority
Don’t care a heck of a lot about people outside those closest to us
Don’t want to be the center of attention, just want to “do our thing” without constant criticism
Sociopath
All of the above
Do not feel emotions, outside anger, though are very good at faking them
Higher thrill seeking gene
Talks more violently against authority than we would
Manipulative
Can not maintain a job
No religious views , though they claim so and use such religious works are twisted to support their behavior
Challenge social norms (taboos, common sense laws, ect.)
What does this mean? If I walk up to a hill with 24 random people who lead what society calls “normal” lives, I would question their reasoning. You just don’t drag your family into the woods with no skill right before tragedy strikes and put your trust into someone who “normal“ people think is not quite right….there is someone in the group that has somehow made these people think that this was the right course of action. And it sure its not because I’ve been bragging up my skills. If I had been, it would be a different story, more of a lesson that I would learn real fast.
If I walk up to the hill with 24 bushcrafters, I know that they would all know where I stand, as vice versa. IF there were a sociopath among them, they’d only be there to avoid the school so they could avoid being watched or figured out and would spend their time talking survival theory rather than doing any of it. They’d wouldn’t fit in even in our non-conformist group. You know its just a 3 days less than average bushcraft weekend but the sociopath would try to causally bring cannibalistic and such talk into the conversation. They are just a touch off beat. It can be easily found when you hear of them talk about close family for example. They will talk in a way that is always “picking” on the ones they supposedly love, but they have as much of an emotional connection as you do about the person you are telling your spouse about from work who did something funny. There is just something missing.
I objected to Becky’s methodology which involved categorising her imaginary impromptu companions, into socioeconomic grouping/IQ/ and cod-psychiatric diagnosis. The arrogance of this produced a strong reaction in me, and I expressed it.
I was simply astonished by the notion that ‘undesirables’ could be so easily addressed as giving them a ‘good talking to’. As if a sociopath gives a flying fu*k what anybody else thinks.
You are right agian. But you miss understood. Again, somebody convinced all these normal people to meet on that hill. They didn’t do it based on their “normal” rationalization. While they are waiting for me to do their survival for them, there is someone else there who planned to make me a leader who also plans to later take that away. And the results from that would be terribly devastating to my family. These people trust said person. I need to find a way to get the group to say this person is nuts because if I do it alone, I and my family will face more dire results. NUMBER ONE: I am not your leader. NUMBER TWO: You will learn your own survival skills or die. NUMBER THREE: Jerk over there isn’t doing a thing, but you the group will he the ones to say it. How to deal with this one person would depend on the circumstances because they could not “be so easily addressed as giving them a ‘good talking to’.”
Sociopaths do fail in their mission too but you need to be able to see somewhat through them first to make that happen. That is why they usually go after more vulnerable people. They think the smart ones are a challenge, a step up to jump their thrill gene. If it doesn’t work, that person is nothing better than dead.
I'm no Pollyanna but I work with people from some of the most socially deprived areas in Glasgow and Lanarkshire and there's something in folks that makes them want to be helpful; make them useful, make them feel of value and you will have a workforce. Treat them as idiots with no opinions of any worth and you will reap what you sow; division, confrontation, aggression and selfishness.
My entire reason for taking myself out of leadership and helping them to come up with ideas on their own in a non-confrontational way, and let them make decisions. Then when Im no longer needed or the tragedy is over, I’ll move my family onto something better.
), and in particular in urban environments. We all from time to time, have to bite down on that sh*t sandwich dished up to us by others, if we choose not to split their head open with a meat cleaver 
