Flu and cold viruses are different. Flu vaccine won't protect you. If you have been diagnosed with asthma, then without doubt, you should get the vaccine. Flu and asthma is a potentially lethal mix. Be kind to yourself and those around you.
Flu vaccine
- Thread starter Janne
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Flu and cold viruses are different. Flu vaccine won't protect you. If you have been diagnosed with asthma, then without doubt, you should get the vaccine. Flu and asthma is a potentially lethal mix. Be kind to yourself and those around you.
I had the Flu jab this year, only because my other half went for it and they offered it to me.
I got hit with a cold, quite bad for me, I genuinely felt awful. First time in a long time, so I was wondering whether it was connected.
However, my wife went to the Drs and was told that she has had Aussie Flu, so I probably had it too and the jab stopped it being the full experience!
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I got hit with a cold, quite bad for me, I genuinely felt awful. First time in a long time, so I was wondering whether it was connected.
However, my wife went to the Drs and was told that she has had Aussie Flu, so I probably had it too and the jab stopped it being the full experience!
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That's not strictly true, I think. Cold and flu are different virus'. I'm certainly not the type to label a bad cold at flu. Mind you colds I've had might have been as bad as flu. However anybody I've known who had had real flu say it's totally different. Usually it's hard to get out of bed, aching joints, etc, etc.
My bad colds (only one truly bad one) usually result in ear infections, collapsing due to various reasons not just low BP and even perforated eardrum. The last one isn't good but it sure feels nice compared to the pain that comes before the tear in the eardrum. There's no aching limbs like with flu.
My bad colds (only one truly bad one) usually result in ear infections, collapsing due to various reasons not just low BP and even perforated eardrum. The last one isn't good but it sure feels nice compared to the pain that comes before the tear in the eardrum. There's no aching limbs like with flu.
I've got asthma but it's not bad and tbh it's more exercise related and allergy related. I can control those causes ok and they're never bad. Well very occasionally the allergic asthma but I control that by not doing the vacuuming and making sure it's done early in the morning to settle any airborne particles not collected to settle. Either way a puff or two on my inhaler always works. It's so mild.
Paul_B I have to ask why would you not get the shot though? I can think of three common reasons:
1) Religious objections to modern medicine
2) The anti-vax belief that vaccines cause health problems such as autism
3) Counterindications such as an allergy to the vaccine or its components
But unless I'm wrong none of those apply to you?
1) Religious objections to modern medicine
2) The anti-vax belief that vaccines cause health problems such as autism
3) Counterindications such as an allergy to the vaccine or its components
But unless I'm wrong none of those apply to you?
The flu jab has some sort of egg extract in it - someone better than me can explain this on here I am sure.
The growing medium for the attenuated virus is egg, in a lot of vaccines. There are sometimes alternatives available.
A couple of years ago, the flu vaccine caused a small number of young people to get narcolepsy in Sweden.
It is well documented, not an ‘old wife’s tale’.
I discussed this with a friend, (who is a prof in Cardiology) when she visited us recently, and she said that they estimate the vaccine saved a couple of hundred lives in Sweden, so even if up to 20 got the narcolepsy it was worth it.
She said that research on these people showed that these patients would have died if they had been infected with the virus.
Apparently they had an abnormal reaction to the dead virus, had they been exposed to the live active one they would have died.
My son had to spend a week in Intensive Care in Prague when he was hit by the same virus, the Swine Flu, a couple of years back.
We will get the shot on Friday, both me and wife.
It is well documented, not an ‘old wife’s tale’.
I discussed this with a friend, (who is a prof in Cardiology) when she visited us recently, and she said that they estimate the vaccine saved a couple of hundred lives in Sweden, so even if up to 20 got the narcolepsy it was worth it.
She said that research on these people showed that these patients would have died if they had been infected with the virus.
Apparently they had an abnormal reaction to the dead virus, had they been exposed to the live active one they would have died.
My son had to spend a week in Intensive Care in Prague when he was hit by the same virus, the Swine Flu, a couple of years back.
We will get the shot on Friday, both me and wife.
Apparently they had an abnormal reaction to the dead virus, had they been exposed to the live active one they would have died.
The flu vaccine is actually a live virus, albeit a very weak strain,the idea is that the body can easy fight it, and therefore produces the antibodies that will fight the virulent strain if you are unlucky enough to catch it, the problem is that when the vaccine is produced it is based on what strain they think will come, and they are not always right, a good example is what is being referred to as "Australian Flu", which seems to have caught them out.
It is always a good Idea to get the vaccination as its better to be safe than sorry, Asda or any Chemist can give you the shot as weel as your Doctor, I beleive its £8 for those that dont get it for free.
The flu vaccine is actually a live virus, albeit a very weak strain,the idea is that the body can easy fight it, and therefore produces the antibodies that will fight the virulent strain if you are unlucky enough to catch it, the problem is that when the vaccine is produced it is based on what strain they think will come, and they are not always right, a good example is what is being referred to as "Australian Flu", which seems to have caught them out.
It is always a good Idea to get the vaccination as its better to be safe than sorry, Asda or any Chemist can give you the shot as weel as your Doctor, I beleive its £8 for those that dont get it for free.
I just looked it up on the CDC website it looks like the injectable vaccine is usually inactivated (dead) virus whereas the inhaled vaccine is usually live virus. www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/keyfacts.htm
The current Aussie flu is IIRC H3N2 which is a b type virus. A type is worst c type is not that bad at all.
Vaccines are generally 70-80% effective but with this strain they're seeing 30% effective results.
Irrespective of that I don't have any strong views about not taking Vaccines. I'm very, very strongly for Vaccines with many things. In fact I actually believe that doctor from the NE England who started whole autism from NMR combined vaccine should be completely struck off. It completely winds me up when I hear he's working in some American hospital doing research and publishing (albeit in the more dodgy medical publications paid for by Christian right money).
No, my reason for not getting the vaccine is purely that I have never had flu to the best of my knowledge. That's despite being around ppl who did get flu. It'll happen one day but for now I am fit, healthy and feel I have no reason to be scared of the latest flu scare story.
Of course I'm seriously thinking of buying shares in a company that sells flu Vaccines. If my above views suddenly change then that will be the reason.
PS doctor and nursing friends of mine that I've discussed flu vaccination with all say that medical occupations are among the lowest flu jab take up. Reason varies but they don't feel there's a good enough reason to take it off you are healthy. Besides they often get the flu strains wrong. It wasn't that long ago that one manufacturer missed almost all the prevalent strains from their vaccine.
Vaccines are generally 70-80% effective but with this strain they're seeing 30% effective results.
Irrespective of that I don't have any strong views about not taking Vaccines. I'm very, very strongly for Vaccines with many things. In fact I actually believe that doctor from the NE England who started whole autism from NMR combined vaccine should be completely struck off. It completely winds me up when I hear he's working in some American hospital doing research and publishing (albeit in the more dodgy medical publications paid for by Christian right money).
No, my reason for not getting the vaccine is purely that I have never had flu to the best of my knowledge. That's despite being around ppl who did get flu. It'll happen one day but for now I am fit, healthy and feel I have no reason to be scared of the latest flu scare story.
Of course I'm seriously thinking of buying shares in a company that sells flu Vaccines. If my above views suddenly change then that will be the reason.
PS doctor and nursing friends of mine that I've discussed flu vaccination with all say that medical occupations are among the lowest flu jab take up. Reason varies but they don't feel there's a good enough reason to take it off you are healthy. Besides they often get the flu strains wrong. It wasn't that long ago that one manufacturer missed almost all the prevalent strains from their vaccine.
It's not mandatory for medical professionals? Before you ask. I don't know if it's mandatory for them here either. It just seems logical that it would be to protect patients they come in contact with who can't have it for medical reasons (that herd immunity that was mentioned up thread)
On another note it just became personal. I just received word (via a friend on Facebook) that a mutual friend has died from flu. Here's her OP on FB
I sent Ester a PM asking what had happened and she responded that Cindy had gotten sick Thursday and died Sunday.
On another note it just became personal. I just received word (via a friend on Facebook) that a mutual friend has died from flu. Here's her OP on FB
I sent Ester a PM asking what had happened and she responded that Cindy had gotten sick Thursday and died Sunday.
I work for the nhs. Flu vaccination is not mandatory but is strongly encouraged. It really angers me when staff refuse it.
"What is the effectiveness of the flu shot?
This is the same vaccine currently being used in the United States. ... However, "...even in years when influenza vaccines are well matched to circulating viruses, estimates of vaccine effectiveness range from 40 to 60%, which is lower than that for most licensed non-influenza vaccines," Dr Paules and colleagues. 4 Dec 2017"
I don't work for the NHS, but I won't take it, and I have had real flu. I have a really bad reaction to the vaccine though.
That's only one example; there are dozens of reasons why folks don't have the flu vaccination.
We don't live in a totalitarian state, thankfully. People who work with the public generally have a pretty robust immune system.
Getting angry with folks generally doesn't change their minds. Logical reasoning quietly gets through, if your reasons are sound enough.
Right now my son has flu. He's slowly on the mend (I hope/think/am pretty sure) but it hasn't been much fun here this week. My Husband has had the jag, and I haven't. I'd really like it if neither of us go down with Son2's flu though.
We'll see.
M
This is the same vaccine currently being used in the United States. ... However, "...even in years when influenza vaccines are well matched to circulating viruses, estimates of vaccine effectiveness range from 40 to 60%, which is lower than that for most licensed non-influenza vaccines," Dr Paules and colleagues. 4 Dec 2017"
I don't work for the NHS, but I won't take it, and I have had real flu. I have a really bad reaction to the vaccine though.
That's only one example; there are dozens of reasons why folks don't have the flu vaccination.
We don't live in a totalitarian state, thankfully. People who work with the public generally have a pretty robust immune system.
Getting angry with folks generally doesn't change their minds. Logical reasoning quietly gets through, if your reasons are sound enough.
Right now my son has flu. He's slowly on the mend (I hope/think/am pretty sure) but it hasn't been much fun here this week. My Husband has had the jag, and I haven't. I'd really like it if neither of us go down with Son2's flu though.
We'll see.
M
Good luck Toddy. I hope you do stay flu free this year (and years to come)
It sounds like you have a very good reason for not getting it (I suspect your doc would probably advise against you getting it as well) That said, would you take it if you safely could? I agree (generally) about leaving it up to the individual to decide (at least among the general public) But I also agree with ProjeKtWEREWOLF about healthcare workers. It seems a bit selfish of anybody working near vulnerable patients (who may now be medically able to get the shot) to endanger them by possibly bringing the infection to the very people they're supposed to be caring for.
It sounds like you have a very good reason for not getting it (I suspect your doc would probably advise against you getting it as well) That said, would you take it if you safely could? I agree (generally) about leaving it up to the individual to decide (at least among the general public) But I also agree with ProjeKtWEREWOLF about healthcare workers. It seems a bit selfish of anybody working near vulnerable patients (who may now be medically able to get the shot) to endanger them by possibly bringing the infection to the very people they're supposed to be caring for.
Unless I'm mistaken, a vaccine with low levels of effectiveness is never going to be able to provide herd immunity. Usually you need a high level of effectiveness along with high levels of uptake. Something like 60-75%of the population with effective vaccination. With some strains a 100% uptake of the flu vaccine would be effective for 30% of people. Way short of herd immunity.
Out of the current predicted flu strains the one doing the rounds, Aussie flu, is a category b flu that has proven to have very low levels of effectiveness. Whilst they've predicted the strains well they just haven't got good effectiveness. However you'll never be able to prove the vaccine has protected you from flu.
IMHO you're putting money into big pharma for little overall benefit. Add in the fact that high levels of uptake of flu vaccine would likely find more ppl like Toddy with bad reactions.
It is totally down to the individual to choose. Nobody should be strongly encouraged to take it. Even Healthcare workers should only be offered out with no compulsion or even strong arming or any kind of pressure.
Fortunately I believe medical staff are not universally toeing the line. If my medical friends are anything to go by the medical staff flu vaccine uptake is lower than the general public. The world hasn't fallen apart and ppl aren't catching flu at huge rates from non- vaccinated staff.
Then there's probabilities. I'm mid forties and yet to get flu. In my family there's some ppl who had a bad reaction to the vaccine. So low probability of getting a bad dose of flu, low effectiveness of the vaccine and possible complete ineffective vaccine due to missed flu strain. Well IMHO there isn't a big, decisive argument for it.
Out of the current predicted flu strains the one doing the rounds, Aussie flu, is a category b flu that has proven to have very low levels of effectiveness. Whilst they've predicted the strains well they just haven't got good effectiveness. However you'll never be able to prove the vaccine has protected you from flu.
IMHO you're putting money into big pharma for little overall benefit. Add in the fact that high levels of uptake of flu vaccine would likely find more ppl like Toddy with bad reactions.
It is totally down to the individual to choose. Nobody should be strongly encouraged to take it. Even Healthcare workers should only be offered out with no compulsion or even strong arming or any kind of pressure.
Fortunately I believe medical staff are not universally toeing the line. If my medical friends are anything to go by the medical staff flu vaccine uptake is lower than the general public. The world hasn't fallen apart and ppl aren't catching flu at huge rates from non- vaccinated staff.
Then there's probabilities. I'm mid forties and yet to get flu. In my family there's some ppl who had a bad reaction to the vaccine. So low probability of getting a bad dose of flu, low effectiveness of the vaccine and possible complete ineffective vaccine due to missed flu strain. Well IMHO there isn't a big, decisive argument for it.
If it were a case, like smallpox, which we have more or less eradicated, or polio, which we damned well ought to have eradicated by now, that by taking the vaccine I could help wipe out the disease, then even with the reaction, and potentially a worse reaction than I have previously had (I carry an epi-pen for allergies) then yes, I would have the jag.
But they can't say that because this damned virus (family of virus'? ) keeps mutating, changing, and we can't get on top of it enough to wipe it out.
Therefore our own immune systems need to learn to deal with it in some fashion.
I am very glad (and immensely grateful for the NHS and everyone who pays their National Insurance) that we live now, though.
I've carefully made sure that my son took the paracetamol, did drink enough fluids, etc., but I knew that if something did not look like straightforward flu, then help is at the end of the phone....and that paracetamol costs pennies here. We are incredilby fortunate.
I agree with Paul that this vaccine is a personal decision, perhaps made with advice from your GP. They say that hospitals are struggling under the sheer numbers of people coming in with flu though. Does the vaccine actually help reduce those pressures ? because most folks I know who have this flu just thole it at home until they're better.
It's not like the vaccines for rubella or diphtheria or the like that we know work to give immunity; this one seems more than a little hit or miss, tbh.
Healthcare workers ? No getting away from it, flu's a misery, if I did their job and I could take the vaccine without any issues, then I think I'd take it, but that too is my choice.
M
But they can't say that because this damned virus (family of virus'? ) keeps mutating, changing, and we can't get on top of it enough to wipe it out.
Therefore our own immune systems need to learn to deal with it in some fashion.
I am very glad (and immensely grateful for the NHS and everyone who pays their National Insurance) that we live now, though.
I've carefully made sure that my son took the paracetamol, did drink enough fluids, etc., but I knew that if something did not look like straightforward flu, then help is at the end of the phone....and that paracetamol costs pennies here. We are incredilby fortunate.
I agree with Paul that this vaccine is a personal decision, perhaps made with advice from your GP. They say that hospitals are struggling under the sheer numbers of people coming in with flu though. Does the vaccine actually help reduce those pressures ? because most folks I know who have this flu just thole it at home until they're better.
It's not like the vaccines for rubella or diphtheria or the like that we know work to give immunity; this one seems more than a little hit or miss, tbh.
Healthcare workers ? No getting away from it, flu's a misery, if I did their job and I could take the vaccine without any issues, then I think I'd take it, but that too is my choice.
M
See my previous post - that is what I thought and I would never want anyone to go through what I did......
I have had the flu once. Week of hell. Then my wife and don got it.
That is the one year in my life where we did not celebrate X-mas and New Year.
Even if the effectiveness is only 30%, it means that 30% of the injected will not get it which they would if not immunised.
Still not bad.
Yes, Polio is nasty. We Rotarians are together with B + B Gates Foundation trying our best to get the funding, but the problem is that the political situation makes it unworkable in the countries with active Polio disease.
Pakistan ( regions bordering to Afganistan mainly), Afganistan and Nigeria.
That is the one year in my life where we did not celebrate X-mas and New Year.
Even if the effectiveness is only 30%, it means that 30% of the injected will not get it which they would if not immunised.
Still not bad.
Yes, Polio is nasty. We Rotarians are together with B + B Gates Foundation trying our best to get the funding, but the problem is that the political situation makes it unworkable in the countries with active Polio disease.
Pakistan ( regions bordering to Afganistan mainly), Afganistan and Nigeria.
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