fishing, but not in UK - or in UK if you like. All manner of fish and shellfish.

[Goatboy]

George as far as I know any views shown are genuine honest to goodness people reading the stuff. Sorry I've not been about much I've been tied up in stuff and unable to be online much.
Enjoying the posts as I think others must be too. Think Santaman is correct in what he says, also though fishing is the UK's biggest participation sport the type you do is fairly unusual for the UK. Most fishing here seems to be loch and river. I used to estuary fish a bit as a kid, but then I like things like flounder/plaice. You were asking about guddling elsewhere. Well if any law officials are reading this of course I've never done it.
Something that we learnt as kids in the local burns. The brownies when not out in mid current like to lay up in overhangs and in the shade of rocks. Either lay down on the bank and feel under the overhang. It really is a tickling motion along the underbelly of the fish till you feel you can hook them out of the water and onto the bank. It can also be done standing in the water with both hands gently coming up from behing the fish. Some folk I heard used to use a claw hammer to hook them out but I always thought that a bit base. One local poacher I knew had bad knees and walked with a long antler handled staff. However in his pocket he usually had a largeish hook stuck in a cork with some cord attatched so he could lash it to his staff and use it as a gaff. I've maybe got a romantic view on old poachers as most of them were pretty good folk. There were those though did a lot of damage and could be violent and those I had no time for, and often used to clash with them when I worked on estates.

Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.

 

[Uilleachan]

Yeah, almost 2,000 views.

 

[george47]

Thankyou for your replies - Santaman, are you British? Goat, I had heard of tickling trout and always did kind of suspect it was possible but not really done except in very unusual situations - but apparently guddling is doable. A wild and weird thing - that trout will let your touch them when they are so shy in most situations. I remember time in Orkney when I was out in heather hills a lot and was determined to catch a rabbit with my hands - having no other weapon. The rabbits would often stay motionless till right at your feet and I would dive onto them, sometimes just touching the fur as it dashed off. Never successful. I hitched quite a few times around Caithness and a Man I will always remember, Johnny Green, would pick me up as he drove a truck - Johnny was a seaman and lobsterman from John-o-Groats and would pick me up year after year, remembering me which was flattering..but driving in his truck at night rabbits were thick. And there one would be in the road every quarter mile, just sitting, staring at the oncoming truck's headlights fixated. And on we would go on...bearing straight on at it...and Splat! A flat rabbit; and Johnny would not even seem to have noticed. And I asked him why he did not avoid them and he said it did no good. The net effect of swerving about would not lessen the toll as they would seemingly dash under the wheels anyway; if you did try to avoid them.

Goat, is it a Brown trout thing, the guddling? Will rainbows act the same?

Today I will pull the crab traps, I just set 3 from filleting trout remains 3 days ago. Picking the meat is a chore we always keep putting off - with crab meat we mostly make soups and crab cakes, and in a month the crabs will go off to deep water and bury for the winter. Blue crabs are small, no recoverable leg meat, just inside, the muscles which activate the legs - and the arms and claws. I can pick the meat of 14 crabs an hour, my wife will not do any except for slowly taking the meat out of the arms and claws - yet she is the one who particularly loves crab. She will not learn the method of getting the tiny packets of meat out of the interior clear shell wrappers, or even the scientific way of doing claws - which is with a knife or garden sheers, instead she is using a nut cracker.

 

[santaman2000]

No, I'm not British. Born and raised in South Mississippi, out in the country north of Hattiesburg. I enlisted in the Air Force at age 19 and during my career I spent a 4 year tour in the UK (RAF Fairford) where I grew addicted to much of the local cuisine. I did miss good Mexican restaurants but the trade off was I got to experience good Indian restaurants instead. Indian restaurants here are a rarity and even the ones I find don't compare well to what I could get in the UK.

There is a way to get the meat from Blue crab legs (albeit it's a small amount of meat) Just place the legs on a firm surface such as the table top and roll a glace over them from end to end; that'll force the meat out the far end like squeezing toothpaste from a tube.

 

[santaman2000]

......

Now you're making me hungry again!

 

[george47]

Fairford, that must have been a great posting, I guess you got to see the air show - which I think is the largest in the world. I stayed a lot neat Manston airport in Kent - the other 10,000 ft runway, and one which has never lived up to its potential for reasons I could not understand. (Ramsgate - stayed - and rebuilt, a Georgian Terrace house on West Cliff road.) I used to walk to the harbour all the time and see the poor fishermen with almost no catch. I really was disgusted with British fisheries policy. To allow the EU fleets to rape the fish stocks (Goat, I remember the huge Spanish mackerel fleets - I think in Gairloch, all lit up like a city at night forty years ago when UK lost the control of its waters to the horrible European fisheries wreckers)

USA has a tradition of the citizen being allowed to take fish to eat, the 1980's introduction of salt water sport fishing licenses guaranteed this by giving the sport fisherman political parity with commercial interests. By this inshore fisheries were preserved for the much, much, larger population of sport fishermen instead of letting a few commercial fishermen get most of them.

UK never managed its fisheries for the citizen to take from shore (unless this has changed) - allowing inshore and offshore boats to take so much catch that the poor sports man sitting on some jetty or harbour in England gets almost nothing - even though tens of thousands would enjoy catching some fish for dinner, a very few commercial boats get to have most of the catch. And English inshore boats - OK, I understand that, if well regulated with the sport catch quotas kept in the planning - but the huge Spanish offshore fleets in British waters?! Horrible.

Saltwater licenses are vital to give power through representation to the sports fisherman. Until he is paying he cannot be seriously counted and represented but by vague statistics instead of hard numbers. The other thing is the sport fish caught to eat puts many, many, more pounds/dollars into the local economy than the fish brings in by a commercial catch. Lodging, food, tackle, bait sales, boat rental........... It is a huge local spend on seaside places.

And for a picture - shrimp when they get big, from last year, which we all hope will happen soon. The big shrimp are off in the Louisiana Marshes right now and we hope they do not give us a miss this year. They should be in by now.

This is a bowl of mixed size with big ones on top - but when the big ones get in in numbers the whole catch will be huge ones sometimes. Amazing when you are on them. I have been in my boat and gone through a shoal of them in 2 foot of water and they are popping out of the water like an upside down hailstorm. If quick you can net them and get half a gallon a cast - and then have swam off. The shrimp swim in shoals like fish and move around surprisingly fast.

 

[Goatboy]

Trout are a shy beast but I think it was a rite of passage as a kid learning to stalk things, and the trout seem to like having their tummy tickled. It was mainly wild little brownies that we did as kids though I've taken the odd salmon that way too. The rainbows tendex to be in big stock ponds or lochs and that required other techniques.
We uses to stalk all sprts as kids, not nessesarily to kill, the skill of getting close was the thing. One of my better stalks was as an adult where I crept up on two red deer does standing in a forest ride. I got right up behind them and stroked their backs as they were eating. Felt a bit guilty as the look of total disbelief on their faces as the heads came up and they saw a human with its hands on their backs. They both stood stock still for a second or two then bolted off. My brother was always faster than me and liked to chase foxes on foot, he always was slightly odd.
I suppose it was a little like the story of the little Indian boy being annoyed with his grandfather when being taught to hunt. His grandfather was asking him to start on butterflies and the child thought it was an insult. But after a day of trying found that in learning to catch the butterflies he had to know them and be able to move like them.
That bowl of prawns looks good. Could quite happily sit down to a bowl of them right now, though a prawn carbonara or dopiaza sounds good too.

Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.

 

[santaman2000]

Fairford was great, and yes I saw the Air tattoo twice while there.

I was here in Florida when they first introduce saltwater recreational fishing licenses back in the early 90s. Back then you only needed one to fish from a boat as fishing from the shore (or a permanent structure attached to the shore such as bridges and piers) was still free. In fact they resisted federal pressure to introduce shoreline licenses until just a few years ago (and even now said shoreline license is only $1) It seems the only real reason for it (according to the federal guidelines) is to give a more realistic idea of the fishing pressure by giving a more accurate count of the fishermen. I just get the Gold Sportsman's License for $20 (with my military discount) and it covers ALL fishing (fresh and saltwater, shoreline and boat) as well as ALL hunting (regular gun season, archery season. muzzle loader season, state duck stamps and dove permits, and wildlife management area fees)

Well---fishing from piers was free in the sense that there was no license required. The larger piers jutting out hundreds of yards into the Gulf were, and are still operated on a semi commercial basis (usually the county contracts a private operator to run them) They charge a daily fee but patrons are exempt from license requirements. The smaller public piers on the other hand, are operated exactly as the one you describe there; absolutely free from charge although they now require the patrons to have at least the $1 shoreline license (children under 15 are excepted)

 

[Goatboy]

A group of chefs (Hugh Fairly-Unstable among them) were promoting more more sustainable fishing here in the UK. It seems to be gaining ground which is good and it would be nice if fish stocks recovered. Things like eels and mackeral have taken a real battering in recent years with catch restrictions being placed on them and other species.
Heading into fishing ports up here can be a sad thing. Used to see the boats lined up deep in the harbour but they're pretty empty now.
When I lived in Inverness we used to hire a boat to go.out fishing on up in Helmsdale. Used to be good fishing though the waters could be rough sometimes. Must admit to not being overly keen on going too far out. Happy if I can see land but much further and I get a bit edgy. Good fishing though and if we had time on getting ashore we'd cook some of the catch on the beech before having a pint in the local pub.
Remember going down to England on holiday as a kid and seeing course fishermen for the first time. Couldn't believe how much kit they carted 'round with them. I'd never seen it up here in Scotland. So saying it's become popular up here now but I still can't get used to the amount of gear. It used to be a piece bag with some kit and a rod and maybe a throwout line.
My Grandfather was a great flyfisherman though. So I learned a bit from him. Flyfishing seems to be a way to collect kit though. I took up flymaking while ill a couple of years back and its pretty absorbing. One of my mates has a whole room dedicated to flymaking and is pretty darn good at it.
So though most of the rivers are owned and you have to pay to go on and in England I believe you need a rod licence still, estuary fishing and sea fishing are free which is good.

Sent via smoke-signal from a woodland in Scotland.

 

[george47]

Goat, I have never been much good at stalking. In England I would shoot deer with - I cannot remember, SG I think, 00Buck USA, 9, 30 cal. balls (it seems SSG is like our #1 Buck shot). In USA we would scout their trails and feeding and again wait in ambush - although mostly with a 30.06, although shotgun with slug too, and my wife tried using a .44 cal pistol for hog hunting as it allowed her to hunt on restricted Federal land (she never got a shot with it though)

I have spent many years living in remote places, often in simple camps, so am good at seeing wild life.

My main fishing friend gets back today after a week in the Nation Capital looking at museums and things - and I bet really wants to get out fishing. I have been fishing with some chefs who have taken going to my spot, and gave them my phone number and they may call. I do not carry a phone so could not take their number. They have to buy bait at $4/dozen and I told them I would net them shrimp free if they called first - netting bait shrimp is so easy. A green heron sits on my floating shrimp tank and eats his fill every day, but I just put in more. I like walking down to my shrimping spot with a bit of bait and making a couple throws.

My wife got home - dogs go wild barking 4 dogs! Off to put in posts for berry trellises.

 

[george47]

" A group of chefs (Hugh Fairly-Unstable among them) were promoting more more sustainable fishing here in the UK. It seems to be gaining ground which is good and it would be nice if fish stocks recovered. Things like eels and mackeral have taken a real battering in recent years with catch restrictions being placed on them and other species. "

To give an example of excellent management here: Speck trout are inshore sport fish and could suffer devastation if not protected. The current policy is only fishermen who can show receipts for $5000 of fish sold legally the previous year may fish specks. Then they have to purchase a hook and line commercial license and a trout endorsement and an annual statewide quota is set - it is not large - 26,000 pounds I think. The buyers have to report any buying of all species and when the quotas are filled (like 50,000 for redfish, 50,000 flounder) then the commercial season for them closes. This way the actual professional fishermen can do this for money (it is hook and rod fishing only, but you can also gig for flounder (spear)) for when oystering is closed, or shrimping over.

I would carry this to England with Bass stocks kept for sport fishermen - inshore pollock, flatties, and such reserved with a small commercial quota for small boat professionals. England is a small, crowded place with millions of people who would like to catch a nice eating fish. States like Mississippi have fishing license sales (fresh and salt) of something like 25% of the population buying one. And catch and release is not done much at all. It is a big place here - but shows how many people would do it is they had access and chance of success.

Here are a couple Mississippi Fish and game cops. Every county has at least one; they are full policemen and have authority anywhere in the state so they can unite for big projects. After Hurricane Katrina everyone of them rushed down here and acted as police and Rescue. They naturally carry guns and handcuffs and have zero tolerance. Not someone to mouth off to. Then we have 'Marine Enforcement from the DMR, another fisheries police with full police authority - they ride around in boats checking catches. Every commercial boat is checked now and them - the fines are massive so no one willfully disobeys the law - you will get caught. They even walk down to my fishing place under the light and check me every couple months. 1 undersized fish is $225 fine. Harsh enforcement, but the theory is fish are owned in common by the people and to take more than you are licensed for is to steal from the others. No fish taken on a sport license may be sold or bartered.

 

[Dave]

Here you go George from a fellow piscator

 

[george47]

I like the ice fishing perch - and the grayling, and trouts. Where is that? It looks like an aqueduct on top of that massive stonework - dam? Is that rainbow what they call a blue trout? (I did not know of them till reading here) Snow camping - looks pretty. The rivers have a sort of East Europe look to them.

I may go fishing tonight, fresh water trout are my favorite fish - I have spent a large amount of time after them in my life, on 3 continents and in the extremes of their ranges. But now live where it is too hot for them - so fish saltwater - but seeing pictures freshwater trout bring back a massive nostalgia. Tell us about your trip.

If going, in a bit will go out and throw the net for some bait shrimp.

edit - I looked at the picture and see the bit of a swirl right under the net? that is likely what I was aiming at, a group of small mullet. Then see the dimples in the water closer? those would be pogies. One really has to cast at targets to get much. Either the shrimp bait you threw out, or fish you see. I am very good at hitting anything I throw at.

re-edit, I happen to be reading Tacitus now. The Histories

 

[Dave]

Hi George.
The Perch was caught and cooked in Arctic Lapland, Sweden. The rest are from different rivers in the Yorkshire Dales.
The upper Wharfe, Ure, Swale, and upper Aire, Ribble and Nidd.
The aqueduct/Dam is at the top of the river nidd, and above it, scarhouse reservoir.
[Unfortuanely one of my clubs has just put forward a proposal that all fish on all waters should be catch and release from 2016]
No thats just a stocked escaped rainbow, froma farm upstream. They have blue trout in a farm in a place called kilnsey, which sometimes get into the river. Ive caught one before. Its very silver like a salmon, with a thin blue line down its flank.

The photos are just picked at random from different trips. The trout were all originally introduced from Loch Leven I believe, as were all the trout in New Zealand, where science cannot explain why they grow three times as big.

I'll dig out a few better river shots for you.

 

[george47]

I love the Arctic but have not caught fish in the Arctic proper, although been there a couple times. But right below the circle have caught lots of greyling, Northern Pike, Lake Trout (Mackinaw), walleye, fresh water burbot (cod) and salmon. I have watched the Northern lights many a time.

Last night my fishing friend Bob got back and we went fishing on the harbour. I do love it there, the water so gorgeous - lit up with the fish swimming about like an aquarium. We got about 60 white trout, and I got the only legal specks taken - 2 just at the legal 13 inches. I let Bob keep them all.

I only have had one hour sleep, but I still may go out again tonight - the place pulls me. Most of the fishermen know me by name, the nights warm enough for a T shirt and shorts. Fish splashing and darting, tiny prey fish leaping, herons watching, and fish biting. I definitely want to do a proper film of it - last night would have been perfect, smooth as glass.

I also want to try a sabiki rig, 6, 2'O hooks with a feather tied on each. I think a heavy silver lure as the anchor weight - possibly with touches of cut bait on each hook as well. For white trout. This is the rig I have

My wife got backed into by a bus, it crumpled her fender - but the car is a wreck anyway! The paint is faded and rust is everywhere. It is a cloth top convertible that is all torn up so water comes in during rain, neither window will roll down, the air conditioner, and defroster and heat do not work, the speedometer does not work, the seats will not move so she has to use pillows and I am jammed in - to drive. Transmission is very tricky to shift, few lights work - like turn indicators...........The ignition will not shut off by its self so the battery is often flat, we used to have to disconnect the battery but now jam the key hard to off wile snatching the key out of the lock and it does it. I keep the lights going, but they have intermittent problems.

So an adjuster came out and we got a check yesterday for $866.00! You cannot notice it with the other dings and peeling paint, torn fabric roof and back. And I have told her we should think of it as a windfall and spend it (weird for me as I am fantasticly tight by nature.) If it just goes into the general pool there will be no fun to this amazing bit of free money dropping on us.

I want a 10 foot casting rod, a 4 foot 1/4 inch mesh cast net - one that will catch bay anchovies, some 1/4 pound spools of different fishing line (12, and 20 pound) and a cheap smoker (for mullet) The net is a specialty item so about $60. The rod, say $50. Smoker $200, fishing line $25 and a 12 v deep cycle battery for my electric boat motor as mine is getting old and one worries it will not get you home one trip, eventually. $80. ($415, about my share)

No idea what my wife would want though.

So what about it? Bad plan? I so rarely spend on gear though.

I have hired a carpenter for Thursday, I have a ceiling to install and need the help. I use a temp labour company. They charge $15.65 an hour. He gets $9.50 an hour, the rest goes to the company. The thing here in USA is no NHS. Injuries are big bucks and if a hired worker gets hurt you are likely liable. Using a temp labour man he comes with "Workers Comp Insurance" so he is covered. One could lose your house if an uninsured man got hurt bad under your supervision. So if I go fishing tonight I may be less effective Thursday - and thus get less than all from the worker - or not. I am a professional tradesman (with a recent hernia operation), carpenter, electrician, plumber, ... so it is not like I have to be too sharp. I know this stuff.

These are the white trout - about 1/4 to 1/2 half pound. Small fillets, but nice enough, and fast to fillet.

 

[Dave]

The temperature, the angle of the sun, the time of day, play a much more important part, when ice fishing, in the arctic, compared to fishing here. The bait is important, but not as important as other factors. You may only have a narrow window of minutes. [Which is true over here as well. Im sure we've all fished an afternoon with nothing, then ten minutes after its pitch black, you catch fish after fish on a spent spinner.] But you should be able to catch more than one from the same hole in quick succession. I caught the perch, on a little plastic green grub looking thing, on one of those little toy rods. As they say, 10% of the fishermen catch 90% of the fish.
[I was the only one to catch anything]

 

[santaman2000]

I've never seen a sbiki rig used for anything other than bait (with #8 hooks usually) Let us know how it turns out!

 

[george47]

Santa, the sebiki was getting a white trout every cast, sometimes 3. Mostly they were small, too small to keep though. The night previous we had got a lot of white trout and I let Bob keep them - and it turned out to be 60 whitetrout. They are so soft skinned that filleting them is tricky, but fast when you get it figured out. Last night we kept 100 or so and I brought home 60. They are in the refrigerator and my carpenter gets here in an hour - so later today I have some filleting. Santa, do you fish for white trout?

The specks just were not there, too many white trout! People there would literally fill a cooler with them. An old guy was using a cane pole (an American traditional thing - bamboo cane 14 foot long or so with no reel) and killing them. If we wished we could have caught coolers full - but they are small fish. I got one legal speck - the only one caught - although I lost 2 nice ones when flinging them over the railing - specks have a tendency for the hook to pull.

So a load of white trout. My plan is to use the meat grinder with them. Gar cakes are the best fish you can have, delicious. You fillet them and grind the meat, mix with mashed potato, eggs, and onion. Sautee in a frying pan - amazing. Gar is the cleanest tasting fish. White trout have a strongish taste though. The Chinese guy told me to grind white trout with raw shrimp but the shrimp are not here in numbers. I am thinking of grinding the white trout fillets with a drained can of salmon (14.7 oz, 418g can size). In USA Alaska pink salmon in that can is sold everywhere - cheap. $2.50 being the normal. (we worked in the salmon canneries in Valdez Alaska a couple years and love the canned salmon.)

Salmon for the flavor, onion, egg, mashed potato. What do you think?

Here is the white trout, from the web as I have no time to down load pictures - a small, and soft fish, but good

Hi Dave, I am that 10%. But we had a fun time, staying till 1 a.m. waiting for the specks to show up and generally having a nice time catching white trout - we released 3 for every one kept. That is why I use circle hooks, they do not hurt the fish. Circle hooks are harder to use, to hook the fish, but always result in a perfect hookup around the lip bone instead in tissues that damage the fish. I stopped using the sebiki rig after a wile as the hookups were often damaging - being normal hooks, and most were to be released.

So off to carpentry - being a carpenter and really disliking carpentry - I will like it a lot more if this guy I hired is competent and cheerful. This is only true in about half the temp guys you hire. Most casual labour claiming more skills than they have.

 

[santaman2000]

No, I haven't deliberately gone for White trout but as you say, sometimes that's the only thing biting and they do taste nice enough.

 

[Dave]

Well, I've never heard of circle hooks or even white trout, I dont think, so interesting to see them. Quite a scary litigious society it sounds like.