All you can do is the best you can in the circumstances. Stopping and blocking an ambulance attending whilst someone else had stopped to help was not going to do much good. It's all much easier in hindsight, of course.
Fight, flight or fawn ?
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All you can do is the best you can in the circumstances. Stopping and blocking an ambulance attending whilst someone else had stopped to help was not going to do much good. It's all much easier in hindsight, of course.
The main point I take from this your scenario @Toddy is the guilt aspect.
You made your decision. You can probably remember some of the micro-decisions, emotions and fears/concerns that led to your decision but certainly not all of them that occurred in the moment. You are who you are and you did what you did. Let go! It was right for you at the time.
I and my wife were once driving on the M40 a few cars behind a horse box that swung sideways and crashed through the central reservation and was hit by oncoming cars in the opposite fast lane. It was obvious that there would be dead and injured. I kept going. Debris was still spinning on the tarmac as we passed. We are both pensioners. Lots of people were stopping and the traffic behind us was jamming up. It wouldn’t clear for four hours.
I have often wondered should I have stopped but for what? No blame, no guilt.
You made your decision. You can probably remember some of the micro-decisions, emotions and fears/concerns that led to your decision but certainly not all of them that occurred in the moment. You are who you are and you did what you did. Let go! It was right for you at the time.
I and my wife were once driving on the M40 a few cars behind a horse box that swung sideways and crashed through the central reservation and was hit by oncoming cars in the opposite fast lane. It was obvious that there would be dead and injured. I kept going. Debris was still spinning on the tarmac as we passed. We are both pensioners. Lots of people were stopping and the traffic behind us was jamming up. It wouldn’t clear for four hours.
I have often wondered should I have stopped but for what? No blame, no guilt.
To be fair if it was difficult to turn the car around and someone else had already stopped to help there a good chance I would have left them to it as well.
I think you did what you could taking some assumptions into account - You didn't have a means to communicate what you thought you saw , you were in a car and it would have been difficult to turnaround and you saw car hit their hazards assuming that they would be hopefully attending.
I think for what you could do , safely without endangering yourself , you did it.
We can beat ourselves up a little sometimeswith head games of ' I should have ' etc
With regards to your other examples - I think we all WANT to think we will act selflessly and nobily in an altruistic act. This is a lofty ideal - those that run towards gun fire , towards the burning house , towards the person being mugged by several opponents etc.
I was watching the TV the other night and it was covering the sinking of the Titanic ( spoiler ) - it focused in upon those that managed to rally one or two of the Lifeboats and to return to pick up some of the remaining survivors still bobbing in the freezing sea.
There was a majority reticence it seemed of those in the lifeboats already 'safe' to return to the cries and rescue more survivors still in the water - even although space was available.
My wife turned to me and asked If i was in one boats if I would have returned , it threw me for a moment. - Of course I WANT to think I would act and save lives , in the safety of my warm house, in my armchair , dry , well fed - its easy to armchair quarterback it and try to paint oneself in the best of noble lights that ones wants to be thought of.
But clearly - There was a reason those people , other survivors already in the boat resisted - they were there , I wasn't - so how can I say I would definitely act differently to them under the same circumstances??
I pointed out I probably wouldn't have been in a boat in the 1st place , due to Gender and class - but even if I ignore those things could I say with certaintity I would ? I can't - Because I don't know if I would or would not.
I can only hope I would.
I think we all want to imagine we will act in the way we would want ourselves too do - but in , lets call it a crisis type event - would we?
How could you know?
One of my combative instructors talks about how when ever he flies he purchases Two cans of coke or soft drink as soon as he can once boarding.
His justification is , if he was fated to board a flight that would be hijacked he would then have an available option.
One can for drinking - the other remains sealed as an impromptu impact weapon for resistance.
Would he act in such a way if that situation ever did come to light???
I guess he has at least the basic plan of 'how' and if its a habit , its becoming an engrained one.
Again , we can all fantasise about such serious things but ultimately we can't 'know'.
The examples you've given - I doubt that those people have ever considered the question itself or how they would react- they probably acted from a place of gross adrenaline , anger, love , defiance- just an altruistic autopilot taking over.
No over thinking. ( Probably no thinking at all )
No Ego .
No sense of danger to self.
And of course in reflection they serve as inspiration to many of us and create these questions about how we believe we may act.
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There are a few things in my life that niggle at me, things that I still wake up thinking about. But the only things I really regret and that haunt me are the rare times that I have not done something.
Mind you I do keep a first aid kit and a blanket in my car which may have been of some assistance That fact would possibly have made me more likely to decide to return to the scene. So maybe I would have done. However I have to admit that it took me several hours to remember this point and then take it in to consideration.
It's easy to say now with hindsight but things are often different in the moment. Thinking about your question today it has made me more likely to stop and help someone in the future even if there are already people there helping. While those people might be doing their best they may not have a first aid kit or blanket which could be of further aid to the situation.
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……. And then, not doing something can be a conscious decision for reasons, some of which I may have been aware at the time and others of which I might not consciously have been so.
We are very rarely capable of remembering all the influences that brought about the decision of a moment. It’s usually best to move on
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Like putting the recycling out during the festivities?
< JK- to lightent the tone>
Spot on
I often wonder why people do some of the things they do. Like visiting someone recently bereaved - are you doing it because you think the person genuinely would like to see you? (really? of all the things they are going through, seeing you is the most important?) or because you would feel bad if you didn't?
Our neighbour died just before Christmas. We were with his wife whilst the paramedics were still trying to resuscitate him and when they finally decided they couldn't. For the next four days there was a constant stream of traffic going up and down with visitors - the poor woman was exhausted and frustrated and hadn't had a moment to mourn her loss. Sometimes people do things just because they wouldn't want to be seen not to
Our neighbour died just before Christmas. We were with his wife whilst the paramedics were still trying to resuscitate him and when they finally decided they couldn't. For the next four days there was a constant stream of traffic going up and down with visitors - the poor woman was exhausted and frustrated and hadn't had a moment to mourn her loss. Sometimes people do things just because they wouldn't want to be seen not to
I would always try to help and have done so on several occasions.
The first time, ( late 1970s)I was on my bike, following a 2 door mini, when smoke started emitting from the engine. The lady driver pulled over and leapt out screaming. I pulled in behind and realised there was a baby in the back.
There were flames coming out under the dash, and it was a serious situation. I was in top to toe leather, so quickly surmised I was better protected than her, and no other cars were around, so I went in and got the baby out. I did bang the poor mites head badly on the way out...it was getting rather warm!
I then handed her the child, told her to stand well clear leapt back onto the bike, and raced into Odiham police station a mile or two away,
for help. I then rode home.
Later there was a bit in the paper asking for the man who helped to come forward.
I never did. I was just glad to have saved the situation.
I've dealt with two other car accidents and a chap who fell and broke his hip over the years. I couldn't ever just walk past. I'm definitely one who rushes forward.
While I was in Musgrove recently, there was a very disturbed woman in the ward who got nasty about a lovely old dear who needed a nebuliser in the night. The nurses left the old dear alone, and I realised the other woman had got out of bed and was trying to turn it off and rip the mask off her face. I had to get out of bed and stop her, yell for the nurses and sat with that poor terrified old lady for 20 mins or so untill she went to sleep. Nurses just left her. I can't understand why nobody else intervened.
I couldn't sit by and do nothing.
Everyone else was awake, but just kept quiet, and did nothing. That realy upset me.
The first time, ( late 1970s)I was on my bike, following a 2 door mini, when smoke started emitting from the engine. The lady driver pulled over and leapt out screaming. I pulled in behind and realised there was a baby in the back.
There were flames coming out under the dash, and it was a serious situation. I was in top to toe leather, so quickly surmised I was better protected than her, and no other cars were around, so I went in and got the baby out. I did bang the poor mites head badly on the way out...it was getting rather warm!
I then handed her the child, told her to stand well clear leapt back onto the bike, and raced into Odiham police station a mile or two away,
for help. I then rode home.
Later there was a bit in the paper asking for the man who helped to come forward.
I never did. I was just glad to have saved the situation.
I've dealt with two other car accidents and a chap who fell and broke his hip over the years. I couldn't ever just walk past. I'm definitely one who rushes forward.
While I was in Musgrove recently, there was a very disturbed woman in the ward who got nasty about a lovely old dear who needed a nebuliser in the night. The nurses left the old dear alone, and I realised the other woman had got out of bed and was trying to turn it off and rip the mask off her face. I had to get out of bed and stop her, yell for the nurses and sat with that poor terrified old lady for 20 mins or so untill she went to sleep. Nurses just left her. I can't understand why nobody else intervened.
I couldn't sit by and do nothing.
Everyone else was awake, but just kept quiet, and did nothing. That realy upset me.
I often wonder why people do some of the things they do. Like visiting someone recently bereaved - are you doing it because you think the person genuinely would like to see you? (really? of all the things they are going through, seeing you is the most important?) or because you would feel bad if you didn't?
Our neighbour died just before Christmas. We were with his wife whilst the paramedics were still trying to resuscitate him and when they finally decided they couldn't. For the next four days there was a constant stream of traffic going up and down with visitors - the poor woman was exhausted and frustrated and hadn't had a moment to mourn her loss. Sometimes people do things just because they wouldn't want to be seen not to
Yes, this. So very true, and not just unhelpful but rather cruel. My brother died a year past and there was actually one lady who insisted on going through all his paperwork, "to sort out the stuff that's needed, to help ********, and to make things easier", his body was still lying upstairs and my sister law and I were in shock trying to come to some kind of terms with things and not just sit and cry, and P's busy opening envelopes and files.
In hindsight we ought to have asked her to leave, but who does ?
I think the scarecrow/was it a person thing threw me because I honestly did not spot that it might be someone. Honestly, my first thought was another damned scarecrow. It was just at the bit of the road where cars speed up from 20 to 30, I don't think I was distracted, but obviously distracted enough :sigh;
I forgot to put my bins out before Christmas. There is now three weeks worth of rubbish sitting outside my front door due to my stupidity.
This was me when I heard them picking up the last collection early in the morning.
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I often wonder why people do some of the things they do. Like visiting someone recently bereaved - are you doing it because you think the person genuinely would like to see you? (really? of all the things they are going through, seeing you is the most important?) or because you would feel bad if you didn't?
Our neighbour died just before Christmas. We were with his wife whilst the paramedics were still trying to resuscitate him and when they finally decided they couldn't. For the next four days there was a constant stream of traffic going up and down with visitors - the poor woman was exhausted and frustrated and hadn't had a moment to mourn her loss. Sometimes people do things just because they wouldn't want to be seen not to
Tricky one. I know what you are saying but ,... tricky.
Yeah that one's a social minefield.
I think the kindest thing, with hindsight, would have been for my SIL to retreat quietly and someone else in the family just greet visitors and take their condolences. Pass on what information we had about the funeral, but we hadn't even gotten that far. The Undertaker arrived three hours later.
I think the kindest thing, with hindsight, would have been for my SIL to retreat quietly and someone else in the family just greet visitors and take their condolences. Pass on what information we had about the funeral, but we hadn't even gotten that far. The Undertaker arrived three hours later.
I often wonder why people do some of the things they do. Like visiting someone recently bereaved - are you doing it because you think the person genuinely would like to see you? (really? of all the things they are going through, seeing you is the most important?) or because you would feel bad if you didn't?
Our neighbour died just before Christmas. We were with his wife whilst the paramedics were still trying to resuscitate him and when they finally decided they couldn't. For the next four days there was a constant stream of traffic going up and down with visitors - the poor woman was exhausted and frustrated and hadn't had a moment to mourn her loss. Sometimes people do things just because they wouldn't want to be seen not to
There’s also the thing that people really do care but are completely impotent in this situation. I had so many people trying to help, offering help when Lara died, it was smothering. But I came to realise it’s because they care, they didn’t want me to hurt, but couldn’t really do anything except phone, or text, or visit.
Your situation sounds more like everyone holding their own wake without invitation, and the wake should be precisely when the visiting is invited, by the bereaved.
Similar thing here, I lost my first wife to cancer in 2013, I was 28.
In the days and weeks following I was inundated with visitors and whilst I appreciated their intention at times it felt that I was helping them more.
The most helpful people, generally those with emergency service/disaster relief/nursing backgrounds turned up with a casserole and promptly buggered off!
It’s a natural reaction to want to help, sometimes the best way is to just turn up, collect some laundry and return it clean, or say “I’ll mow the lawn/empty the bins” and get on with it.
Through work in post disaster/incident scenarios sometimes the enthusiastic ammetuers can become a bit of a hindrance rather than a help.
In the days and weeks following I was inundated with visitors and whilst I appreciated their intention at times it felt that I was helping them more.
The most helpful people, generally those with emergency service/disaster relief/nursing backgrounds turned up with a casserole and promptly buggered off!
It’s a natural reaction to want to help, sometimes the best way is to just turn up, collect some laundry and return it clean, or say “I’ll mow the lawn/empty the bins” and get on with it.
Through work in post disaster/incident scenarios sometimes the enthusiastic ammetuers can become a bit of a hindrance rather than a help.
Don't think i need to answer that directly. Actions speak louder than words. (even though all we have are words on here) I'm in trouble for words, because... When all the strong men are gone... the meek will inherit the earth.... And they are welcome to it.
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