Is there less honour recently?

[Chris]

I've found that every time I post something out that I sell on eBay, or every time I have to send a return in to a company because it's faulty, I feel like I have to go overboard with protecting myself financially in terms of potential disputes. I film every time I package something, I film writing the address on the package and I take a photo of the package at the post office, always get a receipt at the post office rather than using a post box.

I'd say 25% of the time it turns out that I did the right thing, and I've used video evidence several times to dispute things 'not arriving' or 'being an empty box'.

Sold an iPhone on eBay recently and the person claimed it didn't arrived 3 weeks later, even though the postie had taken a photo of them receiving the item in their doorway. I felt instinctively suspicious because of the name and location initially, then told myself off for judging someone unfairly like that, then they went on to act in that way. eBay did side with me thankfully, as I had video evidence and the postie took a photo of them holding it. But if the postie hadn't taken that photo, maybe I'd be £650 down now due to someone's lack of integrity.

Amazon sometimes refuse to refund things within the 14 day window even though it's a statutory requirement for them to do so. I only send back maybe 5% of things I purchase there, often because it's misrepresented by the seller with fake AI photos or whatnot. Their customer service is certainly not what it once was and I am doing my best to completely shift my purchases away from there.

Just sent my Keela smock back for repair due to it being faulty and I'm already trying not to get annoyed at the likelihood that it's going to be a struggle when their internal 'inspection' finds that it was 'not faulty'.

Companies make it nigh on impossible to contact them when there's an issue, make you wait for 45 mins in a telephone queue because of 'unexpected call volumes' for the 9048th day in a row and then sit scratching their heads wondering why the few poor call centre staff they actually employ are getting more abuse than they used to.

I find myself pleasantly surprised when I deal with a company and they actually give good customer service, or when I get to deal with people like on here where they're polite and reasonable and there's human decency (this is genuinely a brilliant community). So there are definitely still good people and good businesses out there with a sense of integrity, but it feels like it's becoming uncommon to the point of it being noteworthy.

Woodlore, Camouflage Store and American Express have all provided brilliant customer service that I'd like to praise them for this year. I'll deliberately try and buy more things from them if they have something I am looking for. To me, this is always how business was supposed to work - you treat people well and they treat you well in return. Why are so many companies becoming so short sighted just to make a quick buck? Can't they see it'll ruin them in the long run?

This is just a moan, sorry. Just feels like basic decency isn't too much to ask for and one of the things I love about this country is that we (at least used to) pride ourselves on manners and honouring our word, but that seems to count for less and less recently. Perhaps if others are not finding the same then I need to be looking inwards rather than outwards.

 

[slowworm]

Even if it makes you sound like a Klingon I'd agree there is less honour around these days.

Having said that I've recently had a few "too good to be true purchases" on ebay and remembered to film me opening the parcels. They've both been genuine.

 

[Harold Godwinson]

It's a funny old world these days, I certainly agree with you in many ways ebay isn't called evil bay for nothing it's a conmans paradise, but I also think legitimate companies and sellers also have to same problem. I wonder how many sellers (your phone story being proof of point) have the same problem? For sellers it's probably doubly bad as not only do they get scammers claiming stuff didn't arrive they also have over entitled people wanting to return stuff or get refunds after they realise the item they bought isn't what they wanted, and don't even start me on delivery drivers, I live in a small cornish town and have had to go find my own parcel after it was left at the wrong address.

I suppose end of the day it's the price we pay for the online shopping boom, it's both a blessing and a curse, that's progress for you.

 

[Toddy]

I've never sold on eBay, but I buy a lot, and honestly over all the years I think I've had maybe three bad deals and a couple of dozen that were edging bad enough, but not enough to report or demand refund.

I have been very lucky, and virtually every seller has been not just good about the describing, packing and posting, but helpful and friendly too, even when I had to return something.
Some really did go above and beyond.....some have become friends I buy shoes from one seller who moved to Portugal, where his factory is, and he still posts them for me, from Portugal

Maybe it's the stuff I buy but I think eBay simply reflects our society, and on the whole folks would do you a good turn before they'd do you a bad one.

I'm sorry you ended up in a dispute with someone who really was out to scam. I am really glad there was clear proof. Should he not have been charged with attempted theft though ?

M

 

[Chris]

I've never sold on eBay, but I buy a lot, and honestly over all the years I think I've had maybe three bad deals and a couple of dozen that were edging bad enough, but not enough to report or demand refund.

I have been very lucky, and virtually every seller has been not just good about the describing, packing and posting, but helpful and friendly too, even when I had to return something.
Some really did go above and beyond.....some have become friends I buy shoes from one seller who moved to Portugal, where his factory is, and he still posts them for me, from Portugal

Maybe it's the stuff I buy but I think eBay simply reflects our society, and on the whole folks would do you a good turn before they'd do you a bad one.

I'm sorry you ended up in a dispute with someone who really was out to scam. I am really glad there was clear proof. Should he not have been charged with attempted theft though ?

M

I would say that I have ALWAYS had good experiences when buying on eBay, even when there have been mistakes they were rectified no problem. Though I am careful to not buy listings where the image is clearly a stock image or from Google.

It's the selling that seems to really attract the scammers, as I guess they have literally nothing to lose. Worst case scenario for them, they get the item they paid for. Best case scenario, they get the item and their money back.

Unfortunately there's not much the police can or will do about it, as it's such small fry compared with their other investigations. And the buyer can always just claim ignorance/say it was an accident or someone else using their computer.

 

[Broch]

I suspect it's no worse than it's ever been it's just that we are dealing in a different way than before. When you went onto the high street to buy there was eye contact. In the early days of eBay, those early adopters, still treated it as a personal sale. Now, you have every man and his dog selling and buying - it's not that there's less honour, it's just that those dishonourable people can now deal from behind a screen; they'd have been conning someone out of their money some other way in the past.

 

[Kadushu]

Had a very positive experience on Ebay recently. A company selling galvanised steel brackets that turned out to be far more substantial than expected at a very fair price. It's been a while since I was surprised in a good way!

 

[Danceswithhelicopters]

I think that's the thing, we moan about the bad things but ignore, or sideline, what is good in life

As an example people moaning about a bad driver...I do get it but a particular negative friend I had to stop as he was bringing me down. I asked him how many cars had he driven past that day.... We agreed on a low 1000 an hour. So he'd seen 9000 drivers and all he wasted my time with was one individual.

The good always outnumbers the bad.

 

[Nice65]

For what it’s worth, Keela should come good. I saw the poor workmanship on the zip you posted and to me that’s a no questions replacement of the item. But my old Falkland ventile has been back to them a few times for repairs and their service has been excellent.

You’ve probably phoned them already, but at least you can, and they pick up and you’re talking to someone immediately.

 

[HorseGuy]

Just sent my Keela smock back for repair due to it being faulty and I'm already trying not to get annoyed at the likelihood that it's going to be a struggle when their internal 'inspection' finds that it was 'not faulty'.

Could you let me know how you get on with that please? I'm going to buy a few things from Keela soon and it would be good to know what their customer service is like before making a large purchase.

Woodlore, Camouflage Store and American Express have all provided brilliant customer service that I'd like to praise them for this year. I'll deliberately try and buy more things from them if they have something I am looking for.

Yes I have had good customer service from Camouflage Store too.

Another company I can vouch for is The Bushcraft Store who also have excellent customer service both when giving advice before making a purchase and being very helpful and fair when returning a faulty item. They are always easy to contact and are helpful and friendly at every stage.

 

[Rex Mundi]

I've found that every time I post something out that I sell on eBay, or every time I have to send a return in to a company because it's faulty, I feel like I have to go overboard with protecting myself financially in terms of potential disputes. I film every time I package something, I film writing the address on the package and I take a photo of the package at the post office, always get a receipt at the post office rather than using a post box.

I'd say 25% of the time it turns out that I did the right thing, and I've used video evidence several times to dispute things 'not arriving' or 'being an empty box'.

Sold an iPhone on eBay recently and the person claimed it didn't arrived 3 weeks later, even though the postie had taken a photo of them receiving the item in their doorway. I felt instinctively suspicious because of the name and location initially, then told myself off for judging someone unfairly like that, then they went on to act in that way. eBay did side with me thankfully, as I had video evidence and the postie took a photo of them holding it. But if the postie hadn't taken that photo, maybe I'd be £650 down now due to someone's lack of integrity.

Amazon sometimes refuse to refund things within the 14 day window even though it's a statutory requirement for them to do so. I only send back maybe 5% of things I purchase there, often because it's misrepresented by the seller with fake AI photos or whatnot. Their customer service is certainly not what it once was and I am doing my best to completely shift my purchases away from there.

Just sent my Keela smock back for repair due to it being faulty and I'm already trying not to get annoyed at the likelihood that it's going to be a struggle when their internal 'inspection' finds that it was 'not faulty'.

Companies make it nigh on impossible to contact them when there's an issue, make you wait for 45 mins in a telephone queue because of 'unexpected call volumes' for the 9048th day in a row and then sit scratching their heads wondering why the few poor call centre staff they actually employ are getting more abuse than they used to.

I find myself pleasantly surprised when I deal with a company and they actually give good customer service, or when I get to deal with people like on here where they're polite and reasonable and there's human decency (this is genuinely a brilliant community). So there are definitely still good people and good businesses out there with a sense of integrity, but it feels like it's becoming uncommon to the point of it being noteworthy.

Woodlore, Camouflage Store and American Express have all provided brilliant customer service that I'd like to praise them for this year. I'll deliberately try and buy more things from them if they have something I am looking for. To me, this is always how business was supposed to work - you treat people well and they treat you well in return. Why are so many companies becoming so short sighted just to make a quick buck? Can't they see it'll ruin them in the long run?

This is just a moan, sorry. Just feels like basic decency isn't too much to ask for and one of the things I love about this country is that we (at least used to) pride ourselves on manners and honouring our word, but that seems to count for less and less recently. Perhaps if others are not finding the same then I need to be looking inwards rather than outwards.

I don't think I've ever had a bad experience on eBay, either as a buyer or seller.

Thats not to say I haven't made bad purchases (remember kids, don't use eBay while a few deep in Old Peculiar).

Amazon I've had a few duds from but their customer service tends to put things right promptly.

Outside those, I ordered some replacement lenses for sunglasses. The pack was delivered opened and the glasses had gone. The fittings were still in.

I rang the company (Royal Mail couldn't help) and they said it was a common occurrence. I sent them photos of the packaging and they sent me a new set without quibble.

I'd say there's still plenty of honour still around.

 

[GreyCat]

I think it depends on what you are buying/selling and where.

Ebay: Selling something like an i-phone: well, they are as close to "currency" as you get, so it is more likely to attract the bottom feeders (just as flashign such a phone in certain parts of London attracts phone snatchers). On the other hand, buying a billhook from a well-established restorer who is a commercial small business seller in the UK is highly unlikely to turn out badly.

Etsy is reliable if you stick to UK-based sellers and look carefully at the pictures and description. Only ever had good experiences with them.

Amazon: usually OK if you stick to at least fulfilled by Amazon, and ideally both sold and fulfilled by them. The ability to request a call-back from customer services is worthwhile. Had some issues occasionally, but all resolved.

Small businesses where you can speak to A Real Human: pretty good. Just calibrate your expectations (on response/turnaround) to the size of the business and the spend level. Similarly well-regarded specialist businesses. Just be prepared to pay a bit more than on an auction site- you are paying for that assurance of a good experience and support if it goes wrong.

The global sites like Ali Express: good luck, I'll hold your coat. I just don't use them, they have "risky" written all over them. Yeah maybe you will get "a bargain" but most probably not. (That's before the ethics are considered....)

I think that the convenience of the internet makes us forget that many sellers are not bound by much if any regulation- bit like buying stuff at a market which is so cheap it must be a counterfeit. Similarly, there's always both "sellers" and "buyers" who are basically crooks- but t'was ever thus (use car buying from private sellers has always had a bad rep). The difference is that the internet both widens the scope and reduces safeguards.

GC

 

[Pattree]

I would agree.

I think that there are as many honourable folk (and dishonourable folk) about as there have ever been.
I am very worried about the lack of honour being shown by global politicians and corporate business.
Most people will reject those role models but not the weaker ones.

I don’t think that the users of Temu or Ali express are consciously dishonourable. They are sufficiently distant from both the sources of production and the policy making as to be indifferent.

Like you I would not knowingly use these people but I wonder how much of the mid range stuff that I buy is the cheap stuff sold on by intermediates.

If I am to walk the talk - how much checking must I do to reach any sort of moral high ground?

It would seem that honour takes effort and could be expensive.

 

[Trojan]

Yes there is far less!