Fashionable bushcraft?

[Tengu]

I for one avoid anything `pop`

My lifetime fave Anime is all set to come out on the big screen.

I think I may drop out of the fandom in a couple of years when this happens.

But this is just me...Im fiercely individualist, It doesnt mean a things good or bad.

And I can sit back and say `I told you so`

 

[Toddy]

Yep, the more folk into it the better, and if we can refrain from the elitist bo*****s it wont do any harm either.

Anyway, as I live in England I reckon mines more like herbaceous bordercraft cos it's sure as hell's not "bush" is it

oh me too, with occasional forays into peat bogs, sploongin burns and brackeny hillsides

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[janiepopps]

sploongin burns

Ooh, I dont think we get them down here...! What are they/is it???

j

 

[drstrange]

I for one avoid anything `pop`

My lifetime fave Anime is all set to come out on the big screen.

I think I may drop out of the fandom in a couple of years when this happens.

But this is just me...Im fiercely individualist, It doesnt mean a things good or bad.

And I can sit back and say `I told you so`

Otaku! Moe!

 

[Montivagus]

I think there’s a bit of confusion in the minds of some about what some of the opinions on this thread represent.

It is often the case that having felt themselves part of some cosy, exclusive in-group/subculture people get upset when said subculture goes mainstream. A bit dumb I guess since they themselves were once newcomers to whatever subculture they're into.

However we’re not talking about the popularity of manga here (This example only since for some reason it was brought up see http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/waiwai/archive/news/2006/05/20060512p2g00m0dm014000c.html by the way)
I don’t have an elitist attitude to new devotees of “bushcraft”, for the reason above, if indeed they are devotees of the true spirit of bushcraft, of all of bushcraft, of all the responsibility bushcraft implies.

What really annoys me though (to keep it clean), is that people get into it in a half or not even half a**ed way. And the reason is this; the playgrounds of bushcraft are the only unspoiled natural environments we have left on the planet and as such are very precious. This goes double for an overpopulated island like the UK. If Ray Mears goes cutting trees down in the vast wildernesses of Canada to make a shelter all well and good, the area can support this – the action is sustainable there. If every body then jumps in their car and heads for the nearest wood and does it here, bye-bye woodland, wildlife and all! We can’t have this here. This sort of pick every fungus before I’ve identified it, use kilowatts of electrical energy to make my “hand made knife”, look at me in my three litre 4by4 driving the length of the country to go camp type of bushcraft, which is what becomes popular, (and isn’t bushcraft!!!) isn’t welcomed by people who try to keep their environmental impact to a minimum! People who take less than half the fruit from a bramble don’t like people who take it all etc. etc. and nor should they!

We can’t welcome the half a**ed bushcrafter because he/she’ll destroy what unspoiled environment we have left during even the short duration of his/her passing fad!

I read a very depressing/uplifting thread on here just yesterday which encapsulates my concerns very nicely. There in one thread the two directions bushcraft could go. List to learn it was titled. In response to the very simple question the thread degenerates into nothing but childish, forget where I am, egotism; (for god’s sake! :yikes: )before it recovers thankfully but only to a point in my opinion. The question was something like what important things do I need to know/learn for bushcrafting. The thread is great as far as technical/kit advice goes but nowhere and certainly not foremost, did I see an answer like; leave no trace, take out everything you take in, sometimes you can’t do what you’d like to do because you have to think of the bigger environmental picture first. And no from all I’ve seen this isn’t taken for granted!

Ahh I feel much better now……

 

[drstrange]

I wonder, if all the Brits who would usually take a package holiday abroad were to boycott them in favour of the bigger picture (reduced airline pollution and a cleaner planet), and stayed in Blighty, what the impact would be to the countryside, and wether the bushcraft scene would grow because of it with loads of gawky Brits trying to make it in the woods? And if it did, whether people would see the bigger picture or the smaller one?

Do we agree with mass entertainment, holiday centers, package holidays, the general ignorance of mass popular culture and its ever increasing trajectory towards selfishness, would we like it to continue so that the few 'responsible' people could enjoy the unspoilt countryside?

Do we simply say 'you stay in the ignorance of your experience and stay out of mine'? Is that the solution?

I'm sorry but the issues facing the world at the moment are simply staggering, we stand on the brink of catastrophie and human suffering of the scale not even witnessed in last centuries' two world wars, never before has the population of the world needed to be educated in such haste. Issues of wether a few more townies should have a little go at bushcraft and make a mess are infitessimally insignificant compared to the problems facing all of us.

 

[Toddy]

Ooh, I dont think we get them down here...! What are they/is it???

j

Ah, that's the kind where the banks are so wet that you're up to you knees in mud before you get near enough the water to fill the billy
They are depressingly common around here

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[janiepopps]

I'm sorry but the issues facing the world at the moment are simply staggering, we stand on the brink of catastrophie and human suffering of the scale not even witnessed in last centuries' two world wars, never before has the population of the world needed to be educated in such haste. Issues of wether a few more townies should have a little go at bushcraft and make a mess are infitessimally insignificant compared to the problems facing all of us.

Here Here! Doc you speak sense my man :You_Rock_

And thanks Toddy, a new expression which sadly i understand all too well

j

 

[mark a.]

I didn't mean this to turn into a depressing thread about the end of the world. I think I'm coming to the conclusion that it's all going to be ok anyway. If there is a boom in this such thing, it'll more likely be camping rather than bushcraft, as camping is a half-way house (i.e. be outdoors but still right near hot showers and toilets). And that's absolutely fine - especially if officially cool places like Blackberry Woods get copied elsewhere.

And if people want to spend lots of money on overprices fashionable gear, then that's ok - as long as the floral patterns aren't too blinding!

 

[drstrange]

I hear they're opening a centre in the New Forest called 'Bushworld', a kind of bushcraft holiday centre. You can rent the trees by the night (they are desceetly numbered in pairs for hammock slinging) and they have log delivery for fires if you want to make them. It's not difficult to find the place, they have a statue of RM outside the gates.

Sorry for getting depressing about the end of the world and all that.

 

[mark a.]

Sounds great!

And don't worry, the world will be fine. Not sure about us humans, mind...

 

[dommyracer]

I'm sorry but the issues facing the world at the moment are simply staggering, we stand on the brink of catastrophie and human suffering of the scale not even witnessed in last centuries' two world wars, never before has the population of the world needed to be educated in such haste. Issues of wether a few more townies should have a little go at bushcraft and make a mess are infitessimally insignificant compared to the problems facing all of us.

True, but if you follow this line to its logical conclusion then you might as well close down 99.99999% of the discussion boards on the internet.

 

[demographic]

Long (ish) story but I will get there in the end...

Years ago (In about 1989) I saw a picture in the back of Performance bikes of a two stroke 500 motocrosser with fat sticky road tyres and lights, since then I wanted one a lot.
Took years of waiting (about eleven years by my count) till I had the chance to buy one (well theres not that many decent 500 crossers about nowadays and I don't often have much money lying around either) but eventually I got a KX500.

Then it took quite a while sorting it properly for the road with good brakes and better wheels as even though the one I bought was road registered it was botched up.
Around about this time the sport of Supermoto was starting to become popular Partly aided by the motocross tracks being closed because of the foot and mouth) and the people that had Supermotos (as road legal crossers with sticky tyres get called) were being labled as fashion victims .

Can't say it bothered me that much cos I had what I wanted and now when the slightly more faddish bike owners are selling theirs the bike spares market is great for people like me that get the bike they want and keep hold of it for years

The point I am making is that not everyone that is on the bandwagon has jumped on it and just think a few years ahead when they jump off and the secondhand kit gets a lot cheaper.

Just think how cheap those *scandi grind bushcraft knives* will be on Ebay in the future

Even if they are following a fad they might learn something that helps the planet a bit so what's the problem anyway?

By the way, the bikes still in the shed and theres another one there also, plus a 750 roadbike

 

[Tadpole]

True, but if you follow this line to its logical conclusion then you might as well close down 99.99999% of the discussion boards on the internet.

Just think of the electricity that would save, and the massive reduction of the amount of hot air generated.
By Jove I think you might be on to something!!! :You_Rock_

 

[rik_uk3]

Ray Mears is loved by pretty much everyone on the planet. There are two books called "Cool Camping". You can buy tents with fancy floral patterns from big-ticket fashion names. And of course there are all the pink wellies, and not just for kids.

So, are camping and bushcraft becoming "cool"?

Is this a good thing? The more people who appreciate the outdoors the better, and hopefully campsites will improve facillities and more will allow fashionable must-haves like open fires. And maybe the pressure of the masses will move England's land access laws to more like Scotland's.

Or is it a bad thing? Will it become a passing fad, where people are more obsessed with "being seen to be outdoors" and buying fancy overpriced gear rather than actually appreciating and looking after nature, and leaving rubbish and remains of campfires all over the place?

I keep on changing my mind on this one...

When I came back from the bushmoot, one of the girls on the ward asked how my camping trip had been, I said "fantastic, my first time at a bushcraft camp", one of the other nurses said "like Ray Mears" I said "yes, are you into bushcraft then", she said "good grief no, no way would we camp even, but my husband and I watch all Ray's shows, bought the DVD's even"

I think a lot of people are the same as the nurse, love the programmes but would not actualy go out and practise the skills shown. Although the moot was a first "bushcraft" camp for me, a lot of what was going on, was what was taught and practised in the Boy Scouts 40 years ago. I'm so happy to see the rise in BC awareness and skills, great stuff, my 18 year old lad loves it, and I'm a 52 year old born again schoolboy Even the wife is happy, "at least you can't light bloody fires in the back room like you light all those old stoves of yours"

 

[paulcd]

I hear they're opening a centre in the New Forest called 'Bushworld', a kind of bushcraft holiday centre. You can rent the trees by the night (they are desceetly numbered in pairs for hammock slinging) and they have log delivery for fires if you want to make them. It's not difficult to find the place, they have a statue of RM outside the gates.

Sorry for getting depressing about the end of the world and all that.

A lot of depressing thoughts going round in somebody's head!
Let's get realistic about this 'bushcraft camping' malarky. If you want to go wild camping, mosy on up to Scotland or hop on t'ferry to Sweden. Try it in the Lakes or Wales if you can find the spots, but be under no illusion, England is very overpopulated and just a few people on a site using the resources for bushcraft can quickly denude the landscape. Intense use can mess things up. On our campsite, yep, we have to supply logs to make sure there is enough deadwood left for wildlife, and we insist that campers have a basic environmental knowledge. No plush facilities though!

 

[drstrange]

A lot of depressing thoughts going round in somebody's head!
Let's get realistic about this 'bushcraft camping' malarky. If you want to go wild camping, mosy on up to Scotland or hop on t'ferry to Sweden. Try it in the Lakes or Wales if you can find the spots, but be under no illusion, England is very overpopulated and just a few people on a site using the resources for bushcraft can quickly denude the landscape. Intense use can mess things up. On our campsite, yep, we have to supply logs to make sure there is enough deadwood left for wildlife, and we insist that campers have a basic environmental knowledge. No plush facilities though!

I haven't slit my wrists, yet! (I only made one statement about the world situation, which is depressing, and my statement was in context, I don't often mention it, I am quite a cheerfull bloke most of the time, but sometimes we all need reminding about the bigger picture, that is my opinion, is that ok or shall we launch the inquisition).

By the way, haven't you mentioned this campsite before, and where is it and does it allow wild camping?

 

[Montivagus]

Ray Mears decided to use the word bushcraft precisely because he wanted to add and emphasise the ecological issues facing the planet to (and not only renew interest in) the technicalities of what was called survival/camping.

He called it bushcraft to put fire by friction in the context of an enlightened attitude to our environment; in an attempt to inspire a desperately needed awareness of how little regard modern society has for the natural world around them.
It is this bushcraft that he wanted to promote and share.

Anyone who understands this and its implications understands that “a few townies making a mess” encapsulates exactly the serious problems we face and isn’t a side show to them.
Anyone who understands this doesn’t have a fleet of petrol guzzling countryside degrading bikes in their garage.

The fact that such people are suddenly calling themselves bushcrafters shows that the message has not been received. Shows that bushcraft is now simply defined as fire by friction without a seconds thought to environmental issues at all, by most and as an opportunity to cash in and make money out of these people by a few.

 

[Toddy]

If the desired outcome is a greater awareness and appreciation of our natural environment among the population as a whole then the learning process will be slow.
Loch Lomond is the nearest National Park to the west, central Scottish population.....go and talk to the Rangers who have to deal with the concommitant litter problems. However, they are also being confronted by a tremendous number of interested people who genuinely want to learn. If they get it wrong a couple of times, that's life, but so long as they do learn, things will improve.

If the aim is to restrict access to a few *true, trusted and knowledgeable* folks then it's on a hiding to nothing. Tell folks they *can't* do something and there will inevitably be a backlash of, "Says who?" and "Why not?"

I suspect the real issue is how to encourage a standard of behaviour that allows for the general public to have quality leisure time while not destroying that very environment that they have decided to be part of, while trying not to do the nanny state or big brother that so gets backs up.

A few choice, easily repeatable sayings perhaps;
Bag it and bin it
Leave no trace.
sort of statements.

The problem then is what to do about those who want to *use* the natural resources? I forage all year around and have done all of my life. HWMBLT has brought in acorns, chestnuts, beechnuts, 5 different fungi, fresh greenery, and some birchbark this weekend alone. How does society limit the damage of the newcomers while balancing the requirements of folks like us?

The only way I can see is just as we are doing, slowly widening the knowledge, sharing our appreciation of the real world around us and accepting that it's not an exclusive playground for those and such as those.
You'll convert more folks to your point of view by courteous explanation than by ranting diatribes.

I'm going to go dig up some meadowsweet roots (dye and for tinctuing) and probably collect a bag of litter while I'm at it

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[drstrange]

"What do people think about flowery tents"?

Just thought it was kind of funny how this thread has the capacity to draw such strong opinions (mine included). Perhaps we should start a new thread called "bush-rants" where people could post colourful rants about anything which bothered them, instead of having to find convenient and innocent threads like this one to soap on.

I wanted to start one on rubbish kit, you know, kit to avoid (like anything 'webtex', what a useless range of low grade pseudo-military, sub eurohike, sub milletts disposable jank) but I thought it might upset companies and get me in trouble (again ).

Anyway I digress, back to the main point: Flowery tents.
I completely disagree with flowery tents, my reasons are:

1. They may contain hippies (who smell and play guitar badly) and anyone who has seen 'Carry on camping' will know what a nuisance they can be.

2. They may contain festival people (who work in Estate Agents and watch Eastenders but become 'Hippies' for one weekend a year in Pilton)

3. They are made and marketed by cynical corporate scum and stitched by aisian slaves for tuppence a year. If this wasn't bad enough, see the next point:

4. They may contain people who dig Coldplay

5. 'Cool camping' is about as convincing a spin as 'Cool Britannia' was, and is eaqually as repulsive and idea.

6. Can't the fashion industry just leave something sacred? I'm sorry but if any indusrty in the world is completely without point or justification for its existence its that one. Fashion promotes low self-esteem and leads to depression and mental illness in later life when ones bits get saggy.

7. It's ok for children to have flowery tents, just.