Falkniven f1 with scandi grind
- Thread starter Shinken
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Shinken said:
The strength at the tip is one of the design features I like about the Woodlore type. I cant say if the Alan Wood Woodlore has a distal taper as I dont recall seeing a photo or illustration that shows a top down view of the spine, and Ive never had the pleasure of holding one in the hand. However, I have a kit/copy from Steve Cox made with stock steel, and that doesnt have a distal taper. Added to that, I really like the Nordic grind it has, as the full thickness of the blade extends almost to the very tip.
I very much like this feature. I find it very reassuring. This was one of the reasons I began to look at thicker blades. If I were to apply a great deal of sideways force to a blade, Id hate it to snap, more for safety reasons than anything else. That said, Ive never used a knife in this way, and dont anticipate that I will. But, as the saying goes never say never!
And although the tip is very thick on the SWC kit, because of the Nordic grind and spear-point combination, all the planes intersect at the tip in such a way that it feels both robust and precise. Very satisfying. This is why, I think, the Woodlore design is so popular, the central position of the spear-point satisfies the finesse needed by wood carvers, the Nordic grind makes it a good whittler (And very easy to sharpen in the field), and the thickness of the blade makes it satisfactory for those would like to pry at things, and to prepare fire wood when choosing not to carrying, or having become separated from their hatchet/axe through mishap.
In my somewhat inexperienced opinion, its pretty much evolutionary perfect from a bushcrafters point of view. A development Id like to see in prototype, is to replace the Nordic grind with a convex of the same or similar depth (Perhaps a little higher up the blade), and keeping the original thickness of the blade all the way to the tip (No distal taper). In my view this would be an interesting experiment.
But I digress.
You clearly have good reasons of your own to want to thin the tip of the F1, but I do share the concern that Jimbo expressed earlier in the thread that the tip could become too thin (For my taste, but it could be very good for your purpose). And you, as a maker, have a far greater understanding of blade geometry than I do, and I dare say a good deal more experienced. And I respect that.
Best regards,
Paul.
OldJimbo said:
I was reading a Swedish site the other day, concerned with Swedish military equipment, and didnt realise how popular the Kraton/Thermorun handled series were with the military (Other than the ones with a clear military purpose). Apparently, a Fällkniven is the knife of choice for Swedish armed forces (Almost any Fällkniven), but the A1 is particularly favoured. I dare say that the robustness of the blades play a big part in this, as well as natural patriotic feelings.
I have no personal experience of military life, and Im not drawn to tactical blades in any way, in fact I tend to shy away from such blades. But my first Fällkniven was an F1, and the reason that I bought it was that at the time I was reluctant to spend a great deal of money on a blade, so it seemed very good value, and a lure away from my well liked Moras (My only other expensive knife up to this point was a Helle Odel, which was terrifyingly sharp straight out of the box). And when I got my hands on an F1 I was struck by the quality of everything about it (This is where the love affair started). I was quite worried though about sharpening it, as Id never owned a convex blade before, and it was starting to go a little dull before I found the nerve to sharpen it. My initial attempts were not very successful.
But I did eventually find a method that was both quick and easy for a person of little experience.
Having read and thought a great deal about this thread, I was emboldened enough last night to, gingerly, remove a little more metal from the F1 (I dont have an engineering background or any power tools, so Im limited both by skill and facilities).
I spent sometime with some sheet Wet and Dry, on a flat surface, and removed sufficient metal from the full height of the blade, so that the lamination lines became quite faint. I then removed the scratches with finer grades of Silicon Carbide paper (I used these types of paper not for any specific reason, simply because these were the papers I had at hand), and then honed the blade to about 1mm up from the edge with the ceramic side of a DC4, using maybe 20-30 stokes on each side.
A phrase I read a while back to describe a very sharp knife was freaky sharp this was a phrase used by a Non-Knife user, and it appeals to me as being both funny and apt, and this is how the F1 now seems to me. The slight thinning of the blade has improved the edge greatly.
One lives and learns.
On the matter of prying with a knife, I was rereading a site last night which contained a photograph of someone kneeling on the ground, with a log between their legs and prising thick slabs of wood off the log with an H1, and with a stabbing motion in the direction of their groin.
I winced at the thought.
Best regards,
Paul.
British Red said:GreenMan,
You might want to look at the new BRKT Aurora over on outdoors-magazine. Still doesn't quite work for me (still the wrong grind etc), but a lot closer than the F1 - love the handle, point and general contour - still to thick for me but I'm a delicate flower
Red
Its a beauty, isnt it, Red? And Im very fond of spalted woods. Burls are not really my thing, a little too decorative for me, but the spalted Buckeye is one of the very best! Ive been looking for a really nice piece for a long while. Just to appreciate a piece in the flesh but with no real intention of fitting it to a blade.
Its quite wicked of you to dangle this temptation in front of me, I already have a long shopping list of more Fällknivens (Thought Id give the TK2 a go to evaluate it for fine whittling and one of the smaller Northern Lights has been nagging away at me for some time), hatchets, axes, Scandinavians, Goloks and Parangs, a galaxy of sharpening stones, and a heap more Moras.
Where am I, and my wallet to turn first? <sigh>
Best regards,
Paul.
PS: Ill be very interested to read Bardsters report!
TheGreenMan said:
sideways force? 3mm convex ground blade
and the blade returned to straight after will less than 1 degree set.
image borrowed from Bark River forums
TheGreenMan said:
Urmm I think Ive gone off half-cocked on this one <chuckle>
I saw a photo a few days ago of a convexed spear-point with a particularly fine specimen of Bukeye for the handle. I was thinking that this was the Bark River in question, hence my seizing on the Buckeye burl thing.
Having just popped over to the Outdoor Magazine site, it seems I may have been mistaken, the Aurora, may not have been the one I saw the other day (Cant remember where).
Anyway, having seen the design and the options, Ive got to say they are some of the most useful and stunningly attractive knives Ive seen in a long while. The mircata handles are exactly what Ive been lusting after for a while, and in my favourite colours natural, olive green, ivory, and the pale grey G-10 is impossibly handsome.
I think the Aurora would be the perfect partner for a hatchet/axe.
I then went over to the River Bark site, and what do you know? Ive found the perfect Golok with a green mircata handle option, just what Ive been dreaming about.
Then I noticed how useful the OMF with the semi-Wharncliffe blade looked. Ive never used a Wharncliffe but I have always thought what a superb, fine whittler it would make.
Oh boy, a revised shopping list is going to have to be drawn up. My heads positively swimming with new possibilities <chuckle>.
Paul.
Bardster said:sideways force? 3mm convex ground blade
[image snipped] and the blade returned to straight after will less than 1mm set.
image borrowed from Bark River forums
Hello Bardster,
Now you've done it! Where's my wallet ? <chuckle>
Thanks for the post, very educational.
Best regards,
Paul.
Gawd knows why I give him publicity
- I still don't like the Aurora enough to part with my money, still too thick. I may weaken one day but Mike and I just don't quite see eye to eye on design. Still its a nice knife in profile - its just the section view I can quite get past. I'm gonna have one more try at convex and then I'll be flat grind till I die! Someone is making that one for me to the only design I can think might work for me in convex. If I don't like it, someone on here will get a bargain
Red
TheGreenMan said:
The OMF is indeed a fine whittler, thinking of buying myself a second just in case i lose the first! But for really good carving and power cuts you just cant beat the TUSK. Its my favourite carving tool with the OMF for the fine detail. Even my wife loved it so bought her one too
TheGreenMan said:
hehe what i didnt note was the guy was putting his FULL body weight behind it to try and bend that knife.... Well worth having a look at the thread over there http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/780203/
I've thought about modding a F1 since I thought the blade had too much metal left near the edge, I thought about using a range of course benchstones to thin it out and restore a convex shape using wet&dry paper.
I would suggest that any maker thinking about doing a number of them should chat to Guycep over on BB. I decided that rather then messing about with a F1 and end up with a really good sharp (thinner) blade on a handle that wasn't quite right I'd just buy one of his knives (which cost less the micarta F1).
It's a flat ground knife which is ground thinner then a F1 and then would have had a bevel about the same hieght which is then convexed to make the whole thing very very sharp
This pic might show the cross secton a bit better then a side on view
though of course you'll get one of them too
The blade has been reground since those pictures were taken as somebody dropped it onto a paving slab at a meet up
I would suggest that any maker thinking about doing a number of them should chat to Guycep over on BB. I decided that rather then messing about with a F1 and end up with a really good sharp (thinner) blade on a handle that wasn't quite right I'd just buy one of his knives (which cost less the micarta F1).
It's a flat ground knife which is ground thinner then a F1 and then would have had a bevel about the same hieght which is then convexed to make the whole thing very very sharp
This pic might show the cross secton a bit better then a side on view
though of course you'll get one of them too
The blade has been reground since those pictures were taken as somebody dropped it onto a paving slab at a meet up
Blades sell on prettiness and imagined exploits. that's so even for me and I should know better by now.
The important thing to remember is that knives are purpose driven so they do one main thing really well and lots of other things from good through mediocre. Best to buy knives based on something cheaper which you know works for you and exactly what you need to do.
The unfortunate thing is that what I find really works in a smaller blade is as ugly as sin - and looks pretty improbable too. The big blades I have are improbable in that they look too pretty to actually take out - but are still strange designs for this place.
Thats too funny Jimbo!
The knife I can't get past is my old Paul Barker scandy. Basic 01 steel with plain yew slabs. I've worn the finish off the slabs and they are now finished with sweat and olive oil. I trashed the wetform sheath and had another made. I've slightly changed the point (to narrower) based on my sharpening. Nothing beats it though - I've got far more expensive knives, but I still put it on when no-ones looking - kind like an old warhorse you rely on
Red
The knife I can't get past is my old Paul Barker scandy. Basic 01 steel with plain yew slabs. I've worn the finish off the slabs and they are now finished with sweat and olive oil. I trashed the wetform sheath and had another made. I've slightly changed the point (to narrower) based on my sharpening. Nothing beats it though - I've got far more expensive knives, but I still put it on when no-ones looking - kind like an old warhorse you rely on
Red
Paul,
I've a couple of pictures up in my gallery, one of the F1 reground and one of my Bison Bushcrafter (a modified model and sheath), a truly superb knife and by no means a "drawer queen", its a very good user.
Neil
I've a couple of pictures up in my gallery, one of the F1 reground and one of my Bison Bushcrafter (a modified model and sheath), a truly superb knife and by no means a "drawer queen", its a very good user.
Neil
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/content/articles.php?action=show&showarticle=136
This is a review of an f1 that has been scandi'd
This is a review of an f1 that has been scandi'd
Bardster said:
The photos are quite remarkable. I never thought that a blade could be subjected to such tensile stress and return almost to true. Astonishing stuff, thanks for the URL, Bardster.
Best regards,
Paul
That looks promising! My convexing is already wider than that bevel, though, so it may be that some people figure they need an even more acute edge.
Andy said:
Hello Andy,
Even with my limited experience, Id been theorising about the effectiveness of this very type of grind (The one on the Guycep blade). Ive never previously seen it anywhere before, so this is very interesting to finally see an example of it, and hear praise for its qualities, and to have its (The grind type, not Guyceps blade) improved utility confirmed by one of Jimbos posts, above.
Incidentally, this was exactly the grind I suggested to Sal Glesser (Am I a presumptions upstart or what?) when I heard about Spydercos intention to develop a bushcraft knife.
Best regards,
Paul
OldJimbo said:
Forgive me, Jimbo, for my slightly hysterical enthusiasm regarding the Aurora, but as an autonomous, mature adult, who takes full responsibility for my actions and decisions, I feel I need to shift the blame on Red and Bardster (They made me do it, Mom!) <chuckle>
On a serious note, I think Mike Stuart has developed something that to me seems close to perfection. Of course, you are quite right on the matter of being seduced initially by the looks of this one. I have to say that particularly the pinless option has the minimal, pared-back design aesthetics that greatly appeal to me. Im very much of the school of thought that form should follow function, and I think River Bark have excelled in this instance.
Coupled to this, Red has made me very curious to try a, thinner, proper Moran grind blade, and Im curious to try out a blade with A2 steel, which would be a first for me, too. Also, the photos of the non-destructive testing pay great testament to the heat treatment used at River Bark. As a non engineering type, its interesting to read the result of break tests, but those pictures paint a thousand words.
The only source Ive found, so far, here in the UK are selling the Aurora basic options starting at around $2 shy of $300 CAN, so a purchase will be a while off yet. And I imagine that the Golok will be way beyond my budget (Alas).
Best regards,
Paul.
Neil1 said:
Thank you Neil, thats very good of you.
I have to say that that the exposed tang on the F1 is curious (Makes me so, anyway) and the grind is very nicely done, Im guessing that keeping the grind low would help in avoiding compromising edge strength too much.
And I like the choice of woods on both knives, too. Very much to my taste. The wood on the Bison looks like some type of fruit wood. I was looking for a supply of fruit wood last year, as I wanted to put some slabs of a wood type native to the UK, on a SWC kit I bought, but couldnt find any. However, I was lucky to find a small supply of Yew, which will do very nicely.
If youre reading this, Red, Bison have a Moran grind blade that I imaging would appeal <chuckle>. Seriously though, it looks like a 'cracker'! And very elegant.
Best regards,
Paul.
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