Falkniven f1 with scandi grind

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Which grind do you prefere on a F1

  • Scandi grind

    Votes: 98 53.0%
  • Convex grind

    Votes: 87 47.0%

  • Total voters
    185
Thats fair oldjimbo, i like to play too.

I suppose a knife is a knife and to be fair all i would ever need is about three or four mora's for a life time!

I think realistically a thinner convex would suit it better. I can sharpen convex in the field but for me it's just a lot easier to shapen a scandi in the field. As with anything i think there is always a compromise. people say woodlores are rubbish because they arent sharp, if they had a flat grind they could be sharper but wouldnt split wood as well etc etc

I am Ranting now :soapbox:
 
loathed to say woodlore style

The reason I used the term 'Woodlore style' is that the Scandinavian knives are usually not full tang, or quite as thick. There seem to be a lot fo RM clones out there and I thought the term Woodlore style would let people know that I was reffering to a knife made in the same manner.
 
As a great Mora fanatic - well the real truth is that I wouldn't be anywhere so happy with them if I hadn't tried so many other knives. Now I can settle comfortably with the idea of liking them having tried all the options!
Although I've sort of discouraged experimenting with the F1, the most fun I've had is experimenting with blades from huge axes and sword like things down to razor blades. In the end life is short and blades are a cheap source of fun. And knowledge is hard won with blades, so it takes lots, and lots of work with them, to actually know much.
 
Dear Friends,

I’d like to take this subject back to the basics, if I may. The F1 is a light weight, yet robust, SURVIVAL knife for Swedish airbourne military. This is the purpose for which it was designed and developed. And if one had to eject from the Saab, I dare say that the F1 would be jolly useful to disentangle oneself from the parachute cords, build a shelter, prepare firewood, light a fire with the firesteel, gut a fish or two and make traps for cute, fluffy creatures etc.

It is NOT a ‘bushcraft’ knife.

The purpose of the Kraton handle is to provide excellent grip in sweating palms, or when fully submerged in water. Also the handle being free of any metal parts, prevents cold burns to bare hands, when in the Arctic winter environment.

This is a wild guess on my part, but I’d say that the reason that Fällkiven offer a full tang blade to the market, is that if you happen not like the Kraton one, you can fit one of your own, in any material or shape that you darn well pleasey!

The purpose of the convex nature of the grind is to help prevent rolling/chipping of the edge if subjected to some abuse. A convex grind on a blade of this thickness helps keep the blade thicker (Stronger) nearer the cutting edge than a full height flat grind on a blade of the same thickness and height would be, or indeed, a flat grind from the lamination line to the cutting edge. And a convex makes for a good slicer, and on bigger, heavier knives, a convex makes for a good chopper.

All of the above is why the F1 is such a ‘rubbish’ knife <ironic smile>

If you are worried about wood carving, leave the F1 at home and take a Scandinavian woodcarving knife with a 2-3” blade, into the woods.

If you are worried about vegetable preparation, leave the F1 at home and take a paring knife from the kitchen drawer.

All blades are a compromise of one sort or another when you are trying to use a single blade for a multitude of purposes. And there’s no way round this.

All that remains is to thank Old Jimbo for the sanity, and imparting long worked for wisdom (As usual).

Best regards,
Paul.

PS: ‘I’ll get me coat’ :)
 
An interesting point of view Paul,

As a guy who regularly defends the use of "survival" as a term and a concept, I'll stand by the term "rubbish". I used it consciously having heard so many good things about the knife and wanted to challenge the "F1 is great" perception.

I bought one and have been nothing but disappointed with it. I hear everything you say about the utility of the knife, but for every purpose you describe, I'll take a Frosts Clipper over the F1 - especially in a survival situation! For the money, I'll take a Clipper, Laplander and Wetterlings Large Hunter actually :D. Being sadly stuck with it, I'd really like to see Ash make something different out of mine - a thinner full flat might be interesting!

I think my coats next to yours :)

Red
 
Hmmm, i like the idea of the full flat grind! and it would fit in better with the profile already on the knife. Maybe i should have included that in the poll also
 
TheGreenMan said:
........I dare say that the F1 would be jolly useful to disentangle oneself from the parachute cords, build a shelter, prepare firewood, light a fire with the firesteel, gut a fish or two and make traps for cute, fluffy creatures etc.

It is NOT a ‘bushcraft’ knife.

.......
I'm not sure this stacks up.......though I take your point about carving :)
 
OldJimbo said:
As a great Mora fanatic - well the real truth is that I wouldn't be anywhere so happy with them if I hadn't tried so many other knives. Now I can settle comfortably with the idea of liking them having tried all the options!
Although I've sort of discouraged experimenting with the F1, the most fun I've had is experimenting with blades from huge axes and sword like things down to razor blades. In the end life is short and blades are a cheap source of fun. And knowledge is hard won with blades, so it takes lots, and lots of work with them, to actually know much.

I love to cook, and as such I have about 10 cook or kitchen knives, a long meat carving knife, a cheap and nasty bread knife, even a curved fruit knife. I use them all, for the simple reason that no one knife is good for all the jobs needed in the kitchen. Saying that, my general cooks knife is a 6 inch long inch and 2 inch wide and 2mm thin bladed weapon of food production, it will do all the jobs at a pinch, but none as well as the tool designed for that job.

I know my experience is limited (in the bushcraft sense), but my knife of choice, were I forced to carry/use only one for food prep (making fluffy or feathered creatures in to food, peeling and chopping) and fire making (carving fire sticks, chopping up small amounts of timber, ) general messing about making camp stuff. Would have to be the carbon steel Mora 780 with a full flat grind, ok it was tough (for me anyway) to get rid of the secondary bevel, but after using and abusing my knife for a week (including hacking in to wood chips a 4X4 treated wooden post 6foot long) it was still sharp enough to do wood and food prep for a couple of camping trips, and a survival course.
I have one carving knife with a slight hollow grind, that I used a couple of times and (I think the technical name is rolled the edge) I buggered it up. (it now lives in the back of the “might be useful draw” along with all the plastic bit that came with the fridge)
So flat or scandi grind for me, and Mora all the way. I no longer look a Mora Knives as training knives, I think of them as a Knives for life
 
I'm not sure this stacks up.......though I take your point about carving

If you are worried about wood carving, leave the F1 at home and take a Scandinavian woodcarving knife with a 2-3” blade, into the woods.

I see your point, but then id have a carving knife for carving, a knife for food prep, a knife for chopping and a knife for cutting string.

But i dont want to carry 10 knives so i prefere to compromise and not have serrations that cut string really well and not have a big heavy knife that chops really well. But have a knife that can cut string all be it at compromise and a knive that can split wood again at a compromise.

Imho of course
 
Shinken said:
Hmmm, i like the idea of the full flat grind! and it would fit in better with the profile already on the knife. Maybe i should have included that in the poll also
Still waiting to offer a knife for experimentation.............:D
 
Patients Master Red the force does not yet allow it!

I am snowed under at the moment with comissions etc and real work and i am goin g on hols for a month in January
 
Nice to hear it Ash...good to see your work getting recognised as it deserves buddy....I'll have to let my mate know he now has an early "collectors piece" of your work ;)

I'll have to scrape by with Magnus Axelsons work in the mean time :lol

Red
 
I think wisdom and especially sanity might be a bit of a stretch when it comes to me, but maybe I can offer some perspective on buying knives and on the F1...
Way back in the 70's I decided that I wanted a Schrade 130T. It seemed to me to be a knife design that I could live with for a long time - and that was so for a long time. It's a solid practical design - and I think I bought it because it was so solid. Now of course people look with incredulity as to how so much brass could have been attached to a knife...
Here it is right from my cheap knives page.. And it was cheap then!
schrade130t.jpg


It's still around and even the crude and ugly sheath I made will outlive me.

I soon learned that the nice heavy solid feel of the knife at home changed to just "heavy" on the trails, but I carried it anyway. Given that the bolsters are brass and the knife is full tang - well you can imagine how many times I doubted my sanity living in a place that's cold for half the year. Pity I don't like to wear gloves - I've actually frozen skin on those bolsters.

And my point is that when you lay the blade over an F1 guess what?? Yep the blade is almost identical except that the 130T is a little thinner and slightly more drop point. I'll have to get a picture because the blades sure look different - but it is so.

It has a high saber grind which is really a wide Scandi.

Maybe I was wrong about not being able to Scandi an F1 - though the blade taper might give some problems.

Now it mostly sits in a drawer while the Moras go out, but that wasn't the case for most of its time with me. Having spent (and spending) most of my loot on grand-kids, I wonder if I'll be back to a bear meat diet for my retirement and maybe it'll be back doing what it did years ago...
All that doesn't change too much. Knives are purpose driven and while we make them do more, our choice is often based on the prime purpose - which for me now is cutting wood not butchering. That changes and knife choice will change too.
Interesting, though that while I was saying a scandied F1 was maybe not a good idea, that I had a knife around that could mimic one! And I've carried and used it for more than 30 years. The old-timers disease must be cutting in strongly!
 
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I enjoy your writing oldjimbob, when you compare your flowing words with my awkward ones your experience stands out.
 
British Red said:
An interesting point of view Paul,

As a guy who regularly defends the use of "survival" as a term and a concept, I'll stand by the term "rubbish". I used it consciously having heard so many good things about the knife and wanted to challenge the "F1 is great" perception.

I bought one and have been nothing but disappointed with it. I hear everything you say about the utility of the knife, but for every purpose you describe, I'll take a Frosts Clipper over the F1 - especially in a survival situation! For the money, I'll take a Clipper, Laplander and Wetterlings Large Hunter actually :D. Being sadly stuck with it, I'd really like to see Ash make something different out of mine - a thinner full flat might be interesting!

I think my coats next to yours :)

Red

Red, I know you don’t like the handle, and you don’t like the thickness of the blade, and you don’t like the grind, but apart from that what’s wrong with it? <chuckle>

Seriously though, can you tell me specifically how it disappointed you (I’m genuinely interested, and not looking for conflict)?

I have two F1s (And several other Fällkniven models), they are both ‘shaving sharp’, and to return the blade to ‘shaving sharp’ it just takes a few strokes on the ceramic side of a DC3/DC4, the convex slices well, cuts deep into wood, it can take heavy whacks during various types of batoning tasks, it produces the best shower of sparks off a firesteel I’ve seen. It’ll do pretty much everything you would require from a knife.

Bear in mind that any knife that is built to a military specification, and even more importantly, approved for military use, is going to have a thick blade, and this is going to be a problem if you want to produce fine ‘medallions’ of carrot <chuckle> but this isn’t going to be an issue in a genuine survival situation or during a couple of days rough camping in the woods (Rough camping is ‘bushcrafting’ in it’s simplest form – I know for others it can mean anything from using nothing but Neolithic tools to an emphasis on the spiritual aspect of becoming more closely ‘connected’ to nature and the ‘natural’ environment).

And, let’s not forget, that most of us are very unlikely to experience a genuine survival situation, other than some sort of ‘doomsday’ event (At least in the UK, because the island is so small, and thus it takes considerable effort to get away from other people, who would be our rescuers should something go badly wrong on a jaunt, and because of it’s temperate climate, and thus, there is no ‘wilderness’ as such. Although there are ‘wild’ places that could be life threatening if one were poorly prepared for that environment, or got irretrievably separated from one’s kit).

For the UK environment and for what most of us perceive as ‘bushcraft’ a Mora would ‘do you’ very well (As you and Jimbo have mentioned). I have several Frost’s and Mora of Sweden knives (Formerly J K Eriksson) and I like them very much indeed, particularly the ones with a blade thickness of just under 3mm. Strong, sharp little blades.

I buy more blades than I could ever need because I like to learn. And one of the best ways of learning about the capabilities of a knife is to hold it in your hand. No photograph on a Web page, or personal recommendation, is a good substitute for holding a knife in the hand, and learning how to sharpening it on a simple hand held ‘stone’ of some sort.

If Ash, you, or anyone else wants to modify the grind, I say, fine.

However, I voted to keep it convex, because this is what the highly experienced designer/knife user chose as what they considered as the best for it’s intended use, which is, as I’ve already mentioned, for use after a member of an aircraft’s crew egresses the aircraft during a life threatening, unexpected event. If a ‘bushcrafter’ would like to use the same knife during a jaunt, all well and good. If you try it, and don’t like it, OK, just leave it at home in the drawer.

The only thing I do to alter the grind on a new Fällkniven is to remove the almost invisible flat bevel at the cutting edge, and then hone it. This takes less than five minutes, removes a tiny amount of metal, and it shaves hair off my forearm, no problem at all. If I can sharpen a blade to ‘shaving sharp’ this tells me it’s good steel, and the knife will do all of the tasks I will require of it.

Best regards,
Paul.
 
falcon said:
I'm not sure this stacks up.......though I take your point about carving :)

Hello falcon,

If I’ve understood your ‘I’m not sure that stacks up’, by ‘bushcraft knife’, I mean those knives that are marketed as ‘bushcraft knives’. Such as those that follow the Woodlore idium, meaning, generally of the spear-point type.

This is not a negative criticism of those kind of knives, I greatly admire the design and the craftsmanship of the makers, and I think they are an important evolutionary step in knife design. The only one of this type I have (Due to their cost) is a Steve Cox kit, and it’s outstanding.

Best regards,
Paul.
 
addyb said:
I think I should've asked this earlier in the thread, but how difficult is VG-10 to sharpen compared to say, 12c27 or Triflex steel in a Mora blade?

Hello addby,

I have no experience of 12c27, but I find convexed VG-10 very easy to sharpen. All I find that is necessary to maintain a ‘shaving sharp’ edge is a light honing on a small ceramic. And the Triflex of one of my Frost’s is equally easy to maintain, once the small bevel right at the cutting edge has been removed, and the grind has been made perfectly flat (Which most Moras, of either brand I’ve had were not, when new).

Best regards,
Paul.
 
OldJimbo said:
I think wisdom and especially sanity might be a bit of a stretch when it comes to me, but maybe I can offer some perspective on buying knives and on the F1...
Way back in the 70's I decided that I wanted a Schrade 130T. It seemed to me to be a knife design that I could live with for a long time - and that was so for a long time. It's a solid practical design - and I think I bought it because it was so solid. Now of course people look with incredulity as to how so much brass could have been attached to a knife...
Here it is right from my cheap knives page.. And it was cheap then!

[image snipped]

It's still around and even the crude and ugly sheath I made will outlive me.

I soon learned that the nice heavy solid feel of the knife at home changed to just "heavy" on the trails, but I carried it anyway. Given that the bolsters are brass and the knife is full tang - well you can imagine how many times I doubted my sanity living in a place that's cold for half the year. Pity I don't like to wear gloves - I've actually frozen skin on those bolsters.

And my point is that when you lay the blade over an F1 guess what?? Yep the blade is almost identical except that the 130T is a little thinner and slightly more drop point. I'll have to get a picture because the blades sure look different - but it is so.

It has a high saber grind which is really a wide Scandi.

Maybe I was wrong about not being able to Scandi an F1 - though the blade taper might give some problems.

Now it mostly sits in a drawer while the Moras go out, but that wasn't the case for most of its time with me. Having spent (and spending) most of my loot on grand-kids, I wonder if I'll be back to a bear meat diet for my retirement and maybe it'll be back doing what it did years ago...
All that doesn't change too much. Knives are purpose driven and while we make them do more, our choice is often based on the prime purpose - which for me now is cutting wood not butchering. That changes and knife choice will change too.
Interesting, though that while I was saying a scandied F1 was maybe not a good idea, that I had a knife around that could mimic one! And I've carried and used it for more than 30 years. The old-timers disease must be cutting in strongly!

Beautiful post as always, Jimbo.

You are indeed a wise man.

Happy trails,
Paul
 

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