Expedition training

[wingstoo]

"IF" a 13 year old scout weighing 8st/112Lb/50Kg arrived for their first two day/one night expedition training with a rucksac and kit weighing 33Lb/15Kg/2.35St would you let them walk with that weight?

Or would you get the weight down before they left?

 

[Golb]

A backpack should only weight about 10%-15% of a children's own body-weight. i.e.: maximum 7,5 kg if he weights 50 kg.
Going through all backpacks to check what they have with them might be a good lesson to learn them what's needed and what not.

 

[markie*mark0]

Chances are he's on budget stuff so whilst you'll be able to jettison the uneeded pillows etc, the heavy gear that he needs will still mount up.

 

[sandbender]

I'd cut it down, how heavy are the other packs? Maybe the 'troop' can spread their load around, presumably the food is communal?

 

[wingstoo]

individual food, freeze dried for three meals plus other foods.

Using vango 10 tents split in two packs, inner and poles in one pack weigh in at over 7lb alone.

http://backandneck.about.com/od/childrensissues/tp/Backpacks-Back-Packs-Back-Pain.htm

States 25lb MAXIMUM for young people!

 

[brancho]

I would suggest that Scouts do not carry tents and stoves etc as its not needed the kit can be dropped off for them.

Remember they do not need to do this like a DOE expedition and making hem carry all thier own kit may well put them off expeditions for life.

You are trying to encourage them to do more not put them off.

I would also suggest that the group should buy suitable kit and loan it to scouts.

 

[brancho]

Look HERE for a debate on this issue

 

[greensurfingbear]

"IF" you can get away with it I'd let them carry it all but be prepared to take some of it off them. Sometimes the most important lessons you learn in life you learn my making mistakes.

 

[ged]

We carried that and more on DoE in the early 1960s, I don't think anybody even mentioned pack weight. :yikes:

In my steel-framed canvas rucksack I had a Primus No. 1 in a big biscuit tin and a gallon of paraffin, a two-man canvas tent, a rubber-backed groundsheet, spare clothing and a week's food but no water. The groundsheet probably weighed more than my lightweight one-man tent does now. It slowed me down quite a bit on the climbs. We had a really fantastic time and my clothes smelled of paraffin for weeks afterwards.

 

[wingstoo]

Look HERE for a debate on this issue

Cheers for the link brancho, some interesting discussions in there, shame though that there seems to be confusion over such a simple problem.

25Lb, 25% or 30%, such a wide variation which clearly needs someone to take control of.

For a "First" exped I personally would go for the lowest option, but still ensure they carry all personal kit and some food, and also make sure that they get to do more training to increase their abilities for future events.

Just because "the book" says 30%, it doesn't mean that it is has to be the be all and end all, there are some people who carry a bit more body-weight than others, but the bodies "maturity levels" are still the same as the less heavy person.

I know that there are those that feel that just because some one is small then the basic kit isn't sized to suit individuals, but this last weekend these YP were carrying 50% of a tent that weighed over 6Kg I don't see a Vango Force 10 type 3 as a "Back-packing" tent for young, first timers.

I guess that this is going to be my daughters first and last with this troop, she is doing her last activity in August, then going forwards to the ACO, at least that should save a small mortgage being taken out for two day expeds, costing £25 for a weekend is a bit extreme...

brancho, my eldest daughter lives just a short way from you, over on Kells...

Small world, isn't it. I have supped a few pints over at "The Stump"

 

[brancho]

brancho, my eldest daughter lives just a short way from you, over on Kells...

Small world, isn't it. I have supped a few pints over at "The Stump"

I am from Kells myself do not live there now my Mam still does.
My Dad was aregular at the stump and me and my mates would meet there at the start of a night out on the town.
Small world.

Though I would say £25 is not a lot for a weekend depending what is included. A school may well charge £80.

I dont see a vango force 10 as a backpacking tent and I woould not expect teenagers to carry them.

 

[brancho]

"IF" you can get away with it I'd let them carry it all but be prepared to take some of it off them. Sometimes the most important lessons you learn in life you learn my making mistakes.

Being crippled is tough lesson in life when someone with more experience is on hand to prevent it.

 

[wingstoo]

I am from Kells myself do not live there now my Mam still does.
My Dad was aregular at the stump and me and my mates would meet there at the start of a night out on the town.
Small world.

Though I would say £25 is not a lot for a weekend depending what is included. A school may well charge £80.

I dont see a vango force 10 as a backpacking tent and I woould not expect teenagers to carry them.

The £25 was for three freeze dried meals (extremeadventurefood) fuel for Trangias and the camp site fee (Scout site), and what the Troop leader called a "packed lunch" on the Sunday, a packet of Jelly, a packet of nuts, a drink (Caprisun) and a sausage roll.

It was a local walk so parents took out and picked up from start and finish points.

Typically something that could be done for about £10 to £12 tops.

 

[brancho]

Not sure about the choice of food but the price makes it work out for me.

Look HERE three of those is £17 alone

 

[wingstoo]

Not sure about the choice of food but the price makes it work out for me.

Look HERE three of those is £17 alone

I know, how stupid is that, to buy that sort of stuff for a local walk, 24hr rat pack is £10.99 from shop on the farside. everything in there, which had to be supplied seperately above the £25.

Sadly they "Don't have the time to look around" to make it more within some peoples price range, My Mrs can feed me for a week on that


Good job they weren't doing a four day trip, it would need a bank loan to pay for it.

Sorry to say this but sometimes there needs to be someone saying "Too much" when prices like these are banded about as cheap and reasonable, they aren't, and these "Freeze dried meals" are not the best alternative for short local walks.

 

[brancho]

we are all volunteers and if you want to help out to improve things I am sure (well I would ) they would welcome some help.

We all need educated on these things sometimes people who are very well off do not see things the same way as yourself. I know one who wanted to charge cubs £45 for 2 nights which is excessive IMO.

When kids are carrying tier own food it ma be better to get them to get thier own food IMO as its more important that they will it eat than anything else other than weigh.

 

[Scots_Charles_River]

The heaviest single item will probably be water ? So cut down and boil from a stream. And have dried food only and pack crisps as a snack.

 

[wingstoo]

we are all volunteers and if you want to help out to improve things I am sure (well I would ) they would welcome some help.

We all need educated on these things sometimes people who are very well off do not see things the same way as yourself. I know one who wanted to charge cubs £45 for 2 nights which is excessive IMO.

When kids are carrying tier own food it ma be better to get them to get thier own food IMO as its more important that they will it eat than anything else other than weigh.

I did my stuff as a volunteer as a Sqn com with the Air Cadets, so know that these things can be done a lot cheaper with staff who are willing to give that extra bit, many weekends were done by myself and my wife (AWO) free of charge, including transport to and from start finish points in a vehicle (110 Landy) supplied entirely at my own expence.

I have been told that many "Volunteers" costs are met by the group by adding the cost into their contribution, certainly not something we did with the cadets.

Hopefully not all "Volunteers" are like the latter and more like the former.

I have done other stuff for this group this year, got a £250 donation for their summer camp from my employer and managed to get a hire vehicle for transporting their kit there for less than 50% of their quote, and I will be driving it there and back for them, and Wifey is taking our Landy down with a trailer load of their kit as well, for which we are taking time out of our holidays to do so. Yes he is covering Diesel and accomodation, but that was not at our request.

It's all fun and games being a parent of a scout, some of us do a lot more than others though

 

[wingstoo]

The heaviest single item will probably be water ? So cut down and boil from a stream. And have dried food only and pack crisps as a snack.

Some did take excessive amounts of water, but the leaders didn't advise them to ditch it, and I do mean excessive, one lad had 4ltrs and they were staying on a proper site where there were taps full of the stuff...My daughter had two 330ml bottles.

 

[Scots_Charles_River]

So worth checking before they leave. Kids may panic about getting water on the way, or not want to drink wild water. At school, most kids won't drink from the tap, like I do.