Ok then I hear what you are all saying, so here is another question. How many of us have practiced with all of the old or new methods / equipment that you carry?
Embrace Technology
- Thread starter SMARTY
- Start date
-
Hey Guest, Early bird pricing on the Summer Moot (29th July - 10th August) available until April 6th, we'd love you to come. PLEASE CLICK HERE to early bird price and get more information.
I take what I know but will experiment with new kit when I can fall back to tried and trusted methods. unless its blatently obvious how usefull it is like changing the old brit style ranger flint for a light my fire ferro rod or my boat matches for a baby bic.
I tend to wear a mixture of sheepskin, ventile, goretex, wool, fleece, pertex, fibre pile, cotton etc... so I'm familiar with all things. bimbled up the mountains in cold wet windy weather wearing a sheepskin jacket while all around were in goretex.
I do see quite often scout leaders or d of e instructors dressed head to foot in expensive gear all exited about the walk then the kids dressed as kids are in non waterproof kit, bad rucksacks, non wool socks etc.. (despite the kit list) and the leaders are so oblivious in their little cocoons that they cant register just how bad a state the kids are in. when its like this I tend to keep my top warn and dry but less so the legs so I can get an idea of how wet the kids are going to be and adapt the day accordingly.
technology wise there's one guy I know can not read a map at all but loves walking, he gets others to input waypoints into his gps and off he goes. I'm waiting to read his obituary
I do get fed up with people who buy a survival kit as it was on the kit list then leave it at home because they do not understand just how usefull they can be and have probably never opened them to suss out just whats inside or needs improving. my missus included.
I tend to wear a mixture of sheepskin, ventile, goretex, wool, fleece, pertex, fibre pile, cotton etc... so I'm familiar with all things. bimbled up the mountains in cold wet windy weather wearing a sheepskin jacket while all around were in goretex.
I do see quite often scout leaders or d of e instructors dressed head to foot in expensive gear all exited about the walk then the kids dressed as kids are in non waterproof kit, bad rucksacks, non wool socks etc.. (despite the kit list) and the leaders are so oblivious in their little cocoons that they cant register just how bad a state the kids are in. when its like this I tend to keep my top warn and dry but less so the legs so I can get an idea of how wet the kids are going to be and adapt the day accordingly.
technology wise there's one guy I know can not read a map at all but loves walking, he gets others to input waypoints into his gps and off he goes. I'm waiting to read his obituary
I do get fed up with people who buy a survival kit as it was on the kit list then leave it at home because they do not understand just how usefull they can be and have probably never opened them to suss out just whats inside or needs improving. my missus included.
Lightweight hikers have ditched Goretex, and taken a step back to the non breathables. They use another old-school/new-school development, wicking clothing so they stay dry next to their skin. It is basically the layered approach but updated.
Last time I was in the Lakes, was told to watch people at this spot we were going to, by two trainee Mountain Rescue people. It is scary to watch people wonder past the Blackboard saying bad weather expected, wearing t-shirts, shorts, and no obvous prepardness.
The thing to watch is the next big thing. Things like the IPhone, or Goretex. The must haves. That often do not live up to the hype, or someone 'rips' them off with a much better thing.
My problem with the tech is that the wrong people seem to make it, or design it.
I want a tiny ,AAA or AA powered, bluetooth compass, that gets its info from my GPS. Turn the GPS screen off, and check the device to see I am going the right way. Picking the next waypoint, use GPS. Sort of like map, and compass. You use the compass to work the line, and the map to decide it.
A digital camera, that plugs into another device. The camera clips to sunglasses, and you shoot what you are looking at, with almost no camera shake. Do not need the storage device/film, because it plugs into PDAs, or mobiles.
Also why do these devices only have one card slot? It means I have to double programs, wasting space, so they still work.
Even simply things like fleeces, why are ones with more than two pockets so hard to find, and if you do find them, they have pockets facing the wrong direction, for fashions sake.
And do not get me started on the whole mobile phone pocket thing?
I think tech is like anything, used right it can be amazing. I can carry bookcases on my PDA. Books already cross-referanced with each other, so I know it is this season, and what food is out there, and how to use it. That the tree I want looks like this in this season. Also I can carry a lot of fiction, so I do not run out. Speed reader, it is a nightmare!
I love reading the older magazines, esp the scout stuff, were they needed stuff, so they made it. Like a Fray Bentos frying pan etc.
One of the true joys in life, is to completlety confuse a salesman, or point people in the right direction, when some idiot is trying to sell them whatever is on offer, to make his target or something.
I'm getting fairly good now at clicking my lighter.
(I carry a firesteel and know how to use it, but choose not to; I've created fire with friction, light, pressure and abrasion, but don't carry the kit, other than a knife)
I'm going back to the older ways like wool and cotton as I dont see the need to blow all your cash on flammables and you can get bargains on ebay.
I like wearing my sheepskin jackets while out or sheepytex as I call it
needs some oil on it though.
the kicker for me has been reading the after tour reports from american units in afghanistan, some units used to running around in the hills in winter in the usual gear decided to rely on goretex and polyprop underwear. the casualties rendered such units ineffective.
medics over there now are now carrying wool blankets for personal and patient use.
I like wearing my sheepskin jackets while out or sheepytex as I call it
needs some oil on it though.the kicker for me has been reading the after tour reports from american units in afghanistan, some units used to running around in the hills in winter in the usual gear decided to rely on goretex and polyprop underwear. the casualties rendered such units ineffective.
medics over there now are now carrying wool blankets for personal and patient use.
Did they ever not. The first aid blanket has always been a holey wooly thing.
I think natural materials are nicer, they give off a happy vibe. Unless it is a vehicle, a wood finish is just nicer. On the other hand wool drives me nuts, so roll on the fleece, and therma fabrics.
We cannot ignore new technology - Luddites have never been that successful, but it is good that we still practise traditional skills. However, as has been pointed out, what is old and traditional to us was once cutting edge (sic).
As a technology teacher, I teach 11 year olds to program microchips - a long way from when I started teaching "woodwork". I can't justify continuing to teach the "old" skills - even though I continue to practise them myself - in the context of the world these kids live in. They will need to be adaptable (like always) but, for them, this entails being able to live in a digital world. Yes, it might all go pear-shaped, but we can't run an education system on this possibility. I could even make a case for the fact that I do just what others have done for millennia - I pass on the technology of the day, tempered by the fact that I am an old git who has skills that the young often find redundant. I can live with that.
As a technology teacher, I teach 11 year olds to program microchips - a long way from when I started teaching "woodwork". I can't justify continuing to teach the "old" skills - even though I continue to practise them myself - in the context of the world these kids live in. They will need to be adaptable (like always) but, for them, this entails being able to live in a digital world. Yes, it might all go pear-shaped, but we can't run an education system on this possibility. I could even make a case for the fact that I do just what others have done for millennia - I pass on the technology of the day, tempered by the fact that I am an old git who has skills that the young often find redundant. I can live with that.
Scots_Charles_River
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Kerne,
Interesting post. I am a CDT teacher as well, although I teach 3D Modelling rendering and Product design, BASIC STAMP (pic) programming and electronic breadboarding, pneumatics etc we still teach old hand craft skills - marking out, cutting, chiselling, wood turning,sharpening tools, welding etc. In fact today my lunchtime club modelled up some beaver tail and Sugar Island paddles in Inventor 3D software, and we laminated up some bowls for wood turning.
We still teach old hand skills as well as ultra modern equipment, although we don't have a laser engraver or 3D Printer or 3D CNC, yet.
Here is a showcase of pupils workat my school.
http://designgraphicsshowcase.blogspot.com/
Nick
Interesting post. I am a CDT teacher as well, although I teach 3D Modelling rendering and Product design, BASIC STAMP (pic) programming and electronic breadboarding, pneumatics etc we still teach old hand craft skills - marking out, cutting, chiselling, wood turning,sharpening tools, welding etc. In fact today my lunchtime club modelled up some beaver tail and Sugar Island paddles in Inventor 3D software, and we laminated up some bowls for wood turning.
We still teach old hand skills as well as ultra modern equipment, although we don't have a laser engraver or 3D Printer or 3D CNC, yet.
Here is a showcase of pupils workat my school.
http://designgraphicsshowcase.blogspot.com/
Nick
Scots_Charles_River
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
I'm "lucky" to have a 3D printer and a laser cutter, as well as loads of other high-tech stuff. I still teach traditional hand skills but - and this is the saddest thing - only to the lowest ability, most disaffected lads in the school.
Scots_Charles_River
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
That's a shame. We teach all S1 (12yr olds) hand benchskills first. It's amazing for all kids - the eltie academics and any others. To develop creative, coordination and other skills, but you know that !
I would love to engrave on canoe paddles, one day !
Nick
I would love to engrave on canoe paddles, one day !
Nick
Off topic a bit - but I've been cutting and engraving leather of late using the laser. When I work out how to post pictures I'll post the results.
Scots_Charles_River
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Hi all (first post). I just felt like throwing my tuppence into the mix on this topic. As far as my kit goes, I don't tend to worry too much whether it's modern or traditional, I tend instead to go for the 'low tech' approach to my gear.
By that, I mean that the less that can go wrong, the better. I've been doing outdoor 'stuff'' in various incantations for over thirty years, and in my experience, if it can go wrong, eventually it will. So although I carry a lighter for convenience, I ALWAYS carry a ferrosteel, as even a good dunking in a river won't faze it. Likewise, after nearly having a pressurised petrol stove explode on my face a few years back, I now only carry a Meths stove with NO moving parts to get clogged or leak. A Thermarest may be more comfy, but you can't puncture a closed cell foam mat.
I try to translate this phylosophy to all my gear and it doesn't matter to me if it's modern or primative as long as it is the best kit for the job (and it can vary so much, depending on the outing). I always carry my cell phone (be it switched off), as it is the ideal technology to signal for help in an emergency, although I still have my whistle round my neck, just in case I love a good gaget as much as the next man, but I alwas seem to return to the simple solution in the end.
We all embrace technology to a degree, or we'd be off to the woods each weekend with our stone axes and wearing furs. I think the important thing is to keep the ancient skills alive, while utalizing whatever kit we feel we need in order to enjoy practicing them without it becomming a chore.
By that, I mean that the less that can go wrong, the better. I've been doing outdoor 'stuff'' in various incantations for over thirty years, and in my experience, if it can go wrong, eventually it will. So although I carry a lighter for convenience, I ALWAYS carry a ferrosteel, as even a good dunking in a river won't faze it. Likewise, after nearly having a pressurised petrol stove explode on my face a few years back, I now only carry a Meths stove with NO moving parts to get clogged or leak. A Thermarest may be more comfy, but you can't puncture a closed cell foam mat.
I try to translate this phylosophy to all my gear and it doesn't matter to me if it's modern or primative as long as it is the best kit for the job (and it can vary so much, depending on the outing). I always carry my cell phone (be it switched off), as it is the ideal technology to signal for help in an emergency, although I still have my whistle round my neck, just in case
I love a good gaget as much as the next man, but I alwas seem to return to the simple solution in the end.We all embrace technology to a degree, or we'd be off to the woods each weekend with our stone axes and wearing furs. I think the important thing is to keep the ancient skills alive, while utalizing whatever kit we feel we need in order to enjoy practicing them without it becomming a chore.
Personally I like a mix of old and new - I enjoy using flint and steel to light my fires, but carry a ferro rod as well, sometimes a turbo lighter as a back up too....
I prefer Ventile to Goretex, wool to fleece, but if I am travelling lt wt in realy foul conditions Gore and fleece (or Snugpak warm wear) win out.
I prefer my Karrimor to my lashed pole packframe and my down sleeping bag to a couple of reindeer hides (is down too trad to count?)
I prefer solid Altberg/Lundhag/whatever boots to mocs but wool socks to any other kind
I line my wooly hat with a Buff to stop any itching but prefer merino thermals to polypro etc.
I am a gear freak in that a large part of my life is involved in testing gear for magazines and another large part in designing and making my own. My latest projects for the mags has involved testing cutting edge tech gear for cold weather outdoor wear (and it has all been pretty good) while the things I have been designing for my own personal use and to fill my personal wishes and taste have included a blanket wool hoodie, leather belt and pouch and wooden spoons and ladles.....
I got into designing outdoor kit from nessecity - I could not get what I wanted in the shops - taught myself how to go about it and then took a 2 year design course at our local art coll.
I then worked as a freelance outdoor clothing designer for such folk as Craghoppers and Snowden Clothing, wrote 3 DIY clothing and equipment guides (it is now 5 DIY books but I only realy went commercial with the first 3) designed patterns for Pennine Outdoor and even had my own clothing business for a while.
These days I only design and make stuff for fun as I can get most gear I want to try as review samples for the mags....
I find trad materials tend to be heavier than modern - but that overall they work just as well if you spend time looking after them (ie dont boilwash your woolens...)
As to hardwear - I prefer carbon steel blades in wooden handles and leather sheathes to any modern materials but stainless steel pots to the stomache of a cow as a cook pot...tarps are easier to put up than a debris shelter.
I will go for a mix and match aproach to the Trad Vs Mod debate, but would say that you have to know the limitations of whatever kit you use and use what fits your personal needs best.
I would feel happier sitting around a spitting pinewood fire dressed in wool and cotton than I would in synthetics but happier going to bed in my nyon hammock under a nylon tarp in a pertex covered sleeping bag with my gear stowed in a nylon drybag - if the weather was cold and wet....
As to nav - I have only used GPS to MAKE maps - I prefer compas and map combined with a "feel" for the land....
I prefer Ventile to Goretex, wool to fleece, but if I am travelling lt wt in realy foul conditions Gore and fleece (or Snugpak warm wear) win out.
I prefer my Karrimor to my lashed pole packframe and my down sleeping bag to a couple of reindeer hides (is down too trad to count?)
I prefer solid Altberg/Lundhag/whatever boots to mocs but wool socks to any other kind
I line my wooly hat with a Buff to stop any itching but prefer merino thermals to polypro etc.
I am a gear freak in that a large part of my life is involved in testing gear for magazines and another large part in designing and making my own. My latest projects for the mags has involved testing cutting edge tech gear for cold weather outdoor wear (and it has all been pretty good) while the things I have been designing for my own personal use and to fill my personal wishes and taste have included a blanket wool hoodie, leather belt and pouch and wooden spoons and ladles.....
I got into designing outdoor kit from nessecity - I could not get what I wanted in the shops - taught myself how to go about it and then took a 2 year design course at our local art coll.
I then worked as a freelance outdoor clothing designer for such folk as Craghoppers and Snowden Clothing, wrote 3 DIY clothing and equipment guides (it is now 5 DIY books but I only realy went commercial with the first 3) designed patterns for Pennine Outdoor and even had my own clothing business for a while.
These days I only design and make stuff for fun as I can get most gear I want to try as review samples for the mags....
I find trad materials tend to be heavier than modern - but that overall they work just as well if you spend time looking after them (ie dont boilwash your woolens...)
As to hardwear - I prefer carbon steel blades in wooden handles and leather sheathes to any modern materials but stainless steel pots to the stomache of a cow as a cook pot...tarps are easier to put up than a debris shelter.
I will go for a mix and match aproach to the Trad Vs Mod debate, but would say that you have to know the limitations of whatever kit you use and use what fits your personal needs best.
I would feel happier sitting around a spitting pinewood fire dressed in wool and cotton than I would in synthetics but happier going to bed in my nyon hammock under a nylon tarp in a pertex covered sleeping bag with my gear stowed in a nylon drybag - if the weather was cold and wet....
As to nav - I have only used GPS to MAKE maps - I prefer compas and map combined with a "feel" for the land....
This reminds me of being assessed for rock climbing qualifactions a while back. You would start out with the full rack of wire, cams, slings etc and get given a task such as set up a hoist. As this went on the assessor would take away gear. This tested broader knowledge of techniques and your adaptability. You find out what is truly essential and what can be improvised if necessary.
Likewise in forestry, I use GPS but often revert to the old surveying skills as they outperform it in many situations. Knowing how to do it the old-fasioned way is very useful when something breaks or an odd situation arises.
I like newer technlogies for making my life more comfortable and use them because I'd be silly not to. I pick carefully though as there is an awful lot of hype. When all is said and done though, the ablity to improvise with any technology level is the key - and it doesn't make your bergen any heavier
Likewise in forestry, I use GPS but often revert to the old surveying skills as they outperform it in many situations. Knowing how to do it the old-fasioned way is very useful when something breaks or an odd situation arises.
I like newer technlogies for making my life more comfortable and use them because I'd be silly not to. I pick carefully though as there is an awful lot of hype. When all is said and done though, the ablity to improvise with any technology level is the key - and it doesn't make your bergen any heavier
Although I'm not as proficient as some of you, in living in a hole in't road for years at a time. I do love to get out with my son and go "overnight" camping in pretty remote areas of the city I live in. I always carry my map and compass, yes even in the area's I know. When in an unfamiliar area I carry the same, but also my gps, from the car that can be set to pedestrian settings. I carry my mobile. For fire lighting, I have a zippo, from my smoking days. I carry matches, dipped in wax and kept watertight (well, as far as I know it's watertight). However, I ALWAYS make my lad light the fire with traditional methods, ie, friction or flints / charcloth / tinder etc. He sometimes moans that we should use the lighter, but I'm trying to teach him the old methods so that if he ever finds himself in a situation without modren methods he can make fire, find his ways out of a situation. We use a tent, but on occasions I have made him make a shelter and spend the night in it. I have taught him all me army survival skills and he loves to learn them. It's great seeing him as the proverbial sponge, just soaking up all this bo**ox his dad is showing him
He struggles at times to do the things I ask, but he is, at 12, quite proficient in the task of survival / bushcraft. He never moans and loves the time we spend together. I'm pretty confident that if the need ever aose, he could navigate, take shelter, make fire and survive to tell his tales of daring do.
So in answer to the original question, I think modern technology is fantastic, but nowhere near as satisfying as the traditional methods of outdoor living.
I do love to get out with my son and go "overnight" camping in pretty remote areas of the city I live in. I always carry my map and compass, yes even in the area's I know. When in an unfamiliar area I carry the same, but also my gps, from the car that can be set to pedestrian settings. I carry my mobile. For fire lighting, I have a zippo, from my smoking days. I carry matches, dipped in wax and kept watertight (well, as far as I know it's watertight). However, I ALWAYS make my lad light the fire with traditional methods, ie, friction or flints / charcloth / tinder etc. He sometimes moans that we should use the lighter, but I'm trying to teach him the old methods so that if he ever finds himself in a situation without modren methods he can make fire, find his ways out of a situation. We use a tent, but on occasions I have made him make a shelter and spend the night in it. I have taught him all me army survival skills and he loves to learn them. It's great seeing him as the proverbial sponge, just soaking up all this bo**ox his dad is showing him He struggles at times to do the things I ask, but he is, at 12, quite proficient in the task of survival / bushcraft. He never moans and loves the time we spend together. I'm pretty confident that if the need ever aose, he could navigate, take shelter, make fire and survive to tell his tales of daring do.
So in answer to the original question, I think modern technology is fantastic, but nowhere near as satisfying as the traditional methods of outdoor living.
Similar threads
