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Martyn

New Member
Aug 7, 2003
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www.britishblades.com
I know mate,like I said ,if I had a tail I'd be chasing now.

You do have a tail....

si1230.jpg


...or what's left of one after a few million years of evolution have determined a tail is more of a hindrance than a help in your evolutionary niche.
 

John Fenna

Lifetime Member & Maker
Oct 7, 2006
22,365
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I dont agree with that Jon. Some people need to be pointed at and laughed at loudly. It's the only natural treatment for stupidity and while it may not cure the afflicted, it serves well as a vaccine for others. Too many people buy into this garbage, because too many of the sensible people are too polite to point and laugh.

Nah - laughing at people is just rude (IMHO) being blunt in your refutation is fine and is just as effective as a vaccine.
Apearing rude diminishes your authority as an authority, polite rational argument makes your argument apear more....rational, and you more...polite
Never stoop to your oponents level - thats their turf and they have the home advantage.... :D
Take the moral/logical high ground and you can p**s down on their arguments with ease - and you can easily be seen doing so by others....:)
 

Martyn

New Member
Aug 7, 2003
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Nah - laughing at people is just rude (IMHO) being blunt in your refutation is fine and is just as effective as a vaccine.
Apearing rude diminishes your authority as an authority, polite rational argument makes your argument apear more....rational, and you more...polite
Never stoop to your oponents level - thats their turf and they have the home advantage.... :D
Take the moral/logical high ground and you can p**s down on their arguments with ease - and you can easily be seen doing so by others....:)

You should tell em that in the houses of parliament ...though you'd probably get laughed at. :D
 

Martyn

New Member
Aug 7, 2003
5,252
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Seriously though, pointing and laughing is quite reasonable sometimes. It may be a bit rude, but I think that's quite reasonable too ...sometimes. In this case, Mike did his very best to engage the chap in intelligent, rational debate, but there comes a point where you realise a rational man arguing with an irrational man is an exercise in pure futility. To continue rationally arguing with those who refuse to be rational, gives credibility where it is not deserved. There is nothing left but to point and laugh.
 

John Fenna

Lifetime Member & Maker
Oct 7, 2006
22,365
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Seriously though, pointing and laughing is quite reasonable sometimes. It may be a bit rude, but I think that's quite reasonable too ...sometimes. In this case, Mike did his very best to engage the chap in intelligent, rational debate, but there comes a point where you realise a rational man arguing with an irrational man is an exercise in pure futility. To continue rationally arguing with those who refuse to be rational, gives credibility where it is not deserved. There is nothing left but to point and laugh.

Yea - you may have a blunt there....especially with the MPs!
 

sapper1

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Feb 3, 2008
2,572
0
swansea
You do have a tail....

si1230.jpg


...or what's left of one after a few million years of evolution have determined a tail is more of a hindrance than a help in your evolutionary niche.

The loss of the tail is nothing to do with evolution,it was the invention of chairs that saw it disappear.:)
 

sam_acw

Native
Sep 2, 2005
1,081
10
39
Italy
woodcrafterslog.blogspot.com
Evolution is just a theory? It's one that can be observed and measured and described, just like gravity and evaporation. All theories are only good until they are disproved though, so the day a seven legged purple monkey-aadvark that's 8m tall and has pink flashing horns pops into existence we'll need a new theory.
Being a theory doesn't mean something is wrong, just that is a likely explanation of current evidence.
What gets me is the God vs. Evolution debate; I can't see how the 2 are mutually exclusive.
 

John Fenna

Lifetime Member & Maker
Oct 7, 2006
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Evolution is just a theory? It's one that can be observed and measured and described, just like gravity and evaporation. All theories are only good until they are disproved though, so the day a seven legged purple monkey-aadvark that's 8m tall and has pink flashing horns pops into existence we'll need a new theory.
Being a theory doesn't mean something is wrong, just that is a likely explanation of current evidence.
What gets me is the God vs. Evolution debate; I can't see how the 2 are mutually exclusive.

They are not - depending on how you understand God of course......
 

BorderReiver

Full Member
Mar 31, 2004
2,692
13
Norfolk U.K.
Nah - laughing at people is just rude (IMHO) being blunt in your refutation is fine and is just as effective as a vaccine.
Apearing rude diminishes your authority as an authority, polite rational argument makes your argument apear more....rational, and you more...polite
Never stoop to your oponents level - thats their turf and they have the home advantage.... :D
Take the moral/logical high ground and you can p**s down on their arguments with ease - and you can easily be seen doing so by others....:)

The main problem with the ID goons is that they won't argue. They just keep pushing the same old half truths and outright lies, it's like self repeating loop.
It wouldn't matter at all if they were not trying to get into mainstream education. You'll no doubt have heard of "Teach the Controversy" in the USA, where these morons are pushing to have ID taught in the Science classes as an alternative to Evolution. Teachers are being abused and their classes are being disrupted by children of ID believing families.
There is at least one "Faith" school in the UK with ID in the curriculum.
I'm not against children having this presented to them in comparative religion or philosophy classes, just not in lessons based on fact and verifiable evidence.

If anyone is taking this tripe seriously, you can find an alternative point of view here:
Logic
 

BorderReiver

Full Member
Mar 31, 2004
2,692
13
Norfolk U.K.
Evolution is just a theory? It's one that can be observed and measured and described, just like gravity and evaporation. All theories are only good until they are disproved though, so the day a seven legged purple monkey-aadvark that's 8m tall and has pink flashing horns pops into existence we'll need a new theory.
Being a theory doesn't mean something is wrong, just that is a likely explanation of current evidence.
What gets me is the God vs. Evolution debate; I can't see how the 2 are mutually exclusive.

They are if god made the universe 6000 years ago as a lot of people believe.
 

Martyn

New Member
Aug 7, 2003
5,252
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www.britishblades.com
What gets me is the God vs. Evolution debate; I can't see how the 2 are mutually exclusive.

It is not god v evolution, science can not say anything about the existence of god, one way or another, since if there is a god, he/she/it seems to insist on remaining invisible and requiring faith, which by definition, cannot be measured or tested. So science/evolution does not claim to say anything about the existence of god. What science does debunk, is the creationist theory. The idea that all life was magically popped into existence by a god. So the argument (if there is one) is between creationists and evolution. If you buy evolution, you cannot be a creationist, if you buy creationism, you cannot accept evolution. We are monkeys. That does not dispute the existence of god, it disputes the creationist theory that we were magically created as humans by god, rather than evolved into them. The conflict only exists between evolution and those religions whose doctrines are rooted in creationism.

[video=youtube;KnJX68ELbAY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnJX68ELbAY&feature=related[/video]
 
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Gavmar

Full Member
Jan 24, 2010
413
0
Dagenham Essex
:)Ok let's get this straight. I don't believe in evolution. I am not religeous. I had very bad dislexia when I was younger. that's why my grammer is terrible.
Would you critisise an amputee for not having no legs.
All I was trying to do with my posts was throw another couple of different points of view into the debate, at no time did I say I believed any of it. Why all the jumping to conclusions.

And as for so called safe peer reviewed drugs what a load of :censored: All the drugs below where peer reviewed.

The Year in Pills

By MARTHA ROSENBERG

2010 will go down as the year the diet pill Meridia and pain pill Darvon were withdrawn from the market and the heart-attack associated diabetes drug Avandia was severely restricted.

But it was also the year the Justice Department filed the first criminal, not civil, charges against a drug company executive. Lauren Stevens, a former VP and assistant general counsel at GlaxoSmithKline, hid some 1,000 instances of GSK-paid doctors illegally promoting Wellbutrin to other doctors, say authorities.

It was also the year prominent psychiatrists Charles Nemeroff and Alan Schatzberg were accused of writing an entire book for GSK called Recognition and Treatment of Psychiatric Disorders: A Psychopharmacology Handbook for Primary Care.

Here are the drugs which make 2010's Hall of Shame.

Yaz and Yasmin

Soon after Bayer launched the pill Yaz in 2006, billing it as going "beyond birth control," 18-year-olds were coming down with blood clots, gall bladder disease, heart attacks and even strokes. FDA ordered Bayer to run correction ads that detail the drugs' risks though Yaz sales are still brisk. In fact, financial analysts attribute a third quarter slump to a Yaz generic coming online, not dangerous side effects.

Lyrica, Topamax and Lamictal

In August FDA ordered a warning on the seizure drug Lamictal for aseptic meningitis (brain inflammation) but it is still the darling of military and civilian doctors for unapproved pain and migraine uses. All three drugs increase the risk of suicidal thoughts and behaviors according to their mandated labels, in addition to the memory and hair loss patients report.

Humira, Prolia and TNF Blockers

The drug industry's highly promoted biologic drugs are made from genetically engineered hamster cells and suppress the immune system, inviting tuberculosis and several cancers. Yet Humira is advertised to healthy people for "clearer skin" and Prolia is advertised to prevent osteoporosis in healthy women.

Chantix

After 397 FDA cases of possible psychosis, 227 domestic reports of suicidal behaviors and 28 actual suicides, the government banned pilots, air-traffic controllers and interstate truck and bus drivers from taking the antismoking drug Chantix in 2008. Its neuropsychiatric effects were immortalized when New Bohemians musician Carter Albrecht was shot to death in 2007 in Texas by a neighbor after acting aggressively on the Chantix.

Ambien

The sleeping pill Ambien was immortalized as the drug Tiger Woods reportedly cavorted with his consorts on and former US Rep. Patrick Kennedy crashed his Ford Mustang on, while driving to Capitol Hill in the middle of the night to "vote" in 2006. Law enforcement officials say it has increased traffic accidents from people who drive in a black out and don't even recognize arresting officers.

Tamoxifen

Is it a coincidence that Tamoxifen maker AstraZeneca founded Breast Cancer Awareness Month and makes carcinogenic agrochemicals that cause breast cancer? As a breast cancer prevention drug, an American Journal of Medicine study found the average life expectancy increase from Tamoxifen was nine day . Public Citizen says for every case of breast cancer prevented on Tamoxifen there is a life-threatening case of blood clots, stroke or endometrial cancer.

Lipitor and Crestor

Why is Lipitor the best selling drug in the world? Because every adult with high LDL or fear of high LDL is on it. And also 2.8 million children, says Consumer Reports. All statins can cause muscle breakdown called rhabdomyolysis. And Crestor is so linked to the side effect, Public Citizen calls it a Do Not Use and the FDA's David Graham named it one of the five most dangerous drugs before at a Congressional hearing.

Boniva

Boniva and other bisphosphonate bone drugs are a good example of FDA approving once unapprovable drugs by transferring risk onto the public's shoulders. The list of dangers on the label includes waiting 60 minutes before eating or drinking anything except plain water, never taking the drug with mineral water, sparkling water, coffee, tea, milk, juice or other oral medicine, including calcium, antacids, or vitamins and not lying down after you take it.
Prempro

Pfizer's hormone drug Prempro is linked to a 26 percent increase in breast cancer, 41 percent increase in strokes, 29 percent increase in heart attacks, 22 percent increase in cardiovascular disease and double the rate of blood clots. But its cognitive and cardiovascular "benefits" are being tested right now at major universities to debut an HT "Light," hoping the public has a short memory.

Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, SSRIs

Selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRIs) antidepressants like Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft and Lexapro probably did more to inflate drug industry profits than Viagra. But many say the drugs have also inflated police blotters. In addition to 4,200 published reports of SSRI-related violence, including the Columbine, Red Lake and NIU shootings, SSRIs can cause serotonin syndrome and gastrointestinal bleeding when taken with certain drugs. Paxil is linked to birth defects.

Effexor, Cymbalta, Pristiq, SNRIs

Selective norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors (SNRIs) are like their SSRIs chemical cousins except their norepinephrine effects can modulate pain, which has ushered in your-depression-is-really-pain, your-pain-is-really-depression and other crossover marketing. SNRI's are also harder to quit than SSRIs. 739,000 web sites address "Effexor" and "withdrawal."
Seroquel, Zyprexa, Geodon, atypical antipsychotics

The antipsychotic Seroquel tops 71 drugs on the FDA's January 2010 adverse event report and is linked to unexplained troop deaths and many research scandals. But it's the fifth biggest-selling drug in the world. Atypical antipsychotics cause weight gain and diabetes, the tardive dyskinesia they are marketed to prevent and death in the demented elderly. Yet FDA approved Zyprexa and Seroquel for children last year and the new atypical antipsychotic, Latuda this year. Maybe the FDA is bipolar.

Ritalin, Concerta, Strattera, Adderall and ADHD Drugs

ADHD drugs rob "kids of their right to be kids, their right to grow, their right to experience their full range of emotions, and their right to experience the world in its full hue of colors," says Anatomy of an Epidemic author Robert Whitaker. But they are a gold mine for the drug industry. During an August conference call with financial analysts, Shire specialty pharmaceuticals president Mike Cola lauded the "very dynamic ADHD market," and the "co-administration market" (in which kids don't need one drug but several.

Gardasil and Cervarix Vaccines

A pharma-government plot to inoculate the public with dangerous vaccines? Maybe not but why are governors like Texas' Rick Perry mandating vaccination of girls for HPV? And why was University of Queensland lecturer Andrew Gunn silenced when he questioned the Gardasil vaccine? The HPV vaccine doesn't work for all viral strains, requires a boo$ter and is linked to 56 US girls' deaths as of September, according to the CDC.

Foradil Aerolizer, Serevent Diskus, Advair and Symbicort

Unlike drugs that look safe in trials and develop "safety signals" postmarketing, the long-acting beta agonists (LABA), salmeterol and formoterol, found in many asthma drugs, never looked safe. Studies link them to an increase in asthma deaths, especially in African-Americans and children. They may have contributed to 5,000 deaths said Dr. David Graham at FDA hearings about the controversial asthma drugs.

Singulair and Accolate, leukotriene receptor antagonists

Leukotriene receptor antagonists also never looked safe. Original FDA reviewers said asthma control "deteriorates" on Singulair and it may not be safe in children. Last month, Fox TV reported Singulair, Merck's top selling drug, is suspected of producing aggression, hostility, irritability, anxiety, hallucinations and night-terrors in kids, symptoms that are being diagnosed as ADHD. It is huckstered to parents by the trusted educational service Scholastic, Inc. and the American Academy of Pediatrics.

Martha Rosenberg can be reached at: martharosenberg@sbcglobal.net
 
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Tadpole

Full Member
Nov 12, 2005
2,842
20
57
Bristol
:)Ok let's get this straight. I don't believe in evolution. I am not religeous. I had very bad dislexia when I was younger. that's why my grammer is terrible.
Would you critisise an amputee for not having no legs.
All I was trying to do with my posts was throw another couple of points of view into the debate, at no time did I say I believed any of it. Why all the jumping to conclusions.

And as for so called safe peer reviewed drugs what a load of :censored: All the drugs below where peer reviewed.
Now we start with the smoke and mirrors.
 
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Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
36,883
2,762
S. Lanarkshire
Gavmar, *every* single medicine, whether it be the pills of the pharmacist or the potions of the herbalist, has potential side effects.
That's why we have warnings, contraindications.
There's a reason folks take the pills; at least they know what they're getting :rolleyes:

Even I, who not only grow my own, but prepare and use my own herbal remedies, find that things change constantly. Plantlife is in a constant state of flux, and I know me, I know what my body can take; how the hang does one prescribe for literally millions of different (often *very* different ) people ?
Only by constant ongoing reseach, by adaptation, by learning from mistakes.

Colloidal silver is one of those mistakes, incidentally.

Please stop cutting and pasting screeds from obviously agenda driven websites.
If you have a cogent argument, then make it, but trying to baffle us with truly bad science isn't going to work.

Toddy
 

gregorach

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Sep 15, 2005
3,723
26
48
Edinburgh
It's also rather bad form (not to mention illegal, making Tony liable to prosecution) to copy and paste an entire article from any source which does not clearly grant you the right to do so. This article has been reprinted in a number of locations, but none of them indicate that it can be freely republished as far as I can see.
 

BorderReiver

Full Member
Mar 31, 2004
2,692
13
Norfolk U.K.
There is a flaw in the legislation that allows the pharmaceutical companies to withhold negative results from clinical trials.

So theoretically, if a trial shows up two good results and ten non effective results, the company can promote the drug using the results of the two and suppress the ten.

This has happened more than once and harm has been caused; it doesn't mean that all marketed drugs are not suitable for use.
 

SimonD

Settler
Oct 4, 2010
639
1
Lincolnshire
So Tadpole, you believe your great, great , great, ect, ect, Grandfather was an ape and his great, great, great, ect, ect, Grandfather was a blob of somthing that came out of the sea, because that's basically the theory of evolution right. Stop and think for a moment, do you know how ridiculous that sounds. It's a theory and that is all it is nothing more nothing less.

suuure, it's the theory of evolution that is sounding ridiculous...
 
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