Dark Ecology

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Corso

Full Member
Aug 13, 2007
5,249
449
none
Fair enough. It was just that Santaman was discussing the impact of diet on cholesterol in response to Ron's post that suggests that there is no link between cholesterol and heart disease. I thought you were suggesting that the lower heart disease of the Japanese came at the cost of an increased chance of stomach cancer.

Cheers!

Huon

Thought the same thing, did seema bit of a leap in logic.

Didnt say it was the low cholesterol just that they do have a slightly higher stomach cancer rate, like the Kurds and Turks have a slightly higher rate of Oesophagus cancer(i read due to there habit of drinking very hot tea)what im getting at is every country will have higher rates of this and that due to national dietry habits etc, personnel i think sugar is the major factor causing health issues in the west rather than fats.

have you a reference to that info - I've not seen that link before

but as with everything its swings and roundabouts, you're probably right about Sugar its certainly been in the fore front of thinking recently even to the point that some believe it can increase cancer proliferation rates but I've yet to see anything conclusive.

I still very much believe everything in moderation any you'll be fine - unless there's a genetic link, not alot you can do about that.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,114
67
Florida
Didnt say it was the low cholesterol just that they do have a slightly higher stomach cancer rate, like the Kurds and Turks have a slightly higher rate of Oesophagus cancer(i read due to there habit of drinking very hot tea)what im getting at is every country will have higher rates of this and that due to national dietry habits etc, personnel i think sugar is the major factor causing health issues in the west rather than fats.

Certainly can't argue with that. Sugar's at the forefront of the obesity rates now (all forms of sugar) But frankly I don't lay all the blame on sugar. Or colesterol and/or fats. Or carbs. In the developped Western world I'd say it's more to our over-excess of ALL the above and lack of active excersize in general than ANY single food.
 

RonW

Native
Nov 29, 2010
1,575
121
Dalarna Sweden
Well, at least I've learned that I do make a healthy cup of tea.... :D

But for the rest...... semiscientific mumblings for the big audiences.
 

mrcharly

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jan 25, 2011
3,257
44
North Yorkshire, UK
Ask any medicaly educated person, preferably with a specialisation in heart- and vasculairdiseases to name the or any scientific study that clearly proves the connection between cholesterol and mentioned diseases. If you are able to come up with such a study, you'd be the first one! I did and I did not get an answer!

Some general information for you:
http://www.bhf.org.uk/heart-health/conditions/high-cholesterol.aspx

Scientific paper
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/93/4/684.full

There, took me 3 minutes to find that.

FYI, I have a genetic predisposition to very high LDL. This killed my grandmother, grandfather, two uncles, three of them before they passed 50. My father lived to 72 due to bypass ops and meds.
So you'll have to excuse me if your profound misunderstandings make me cross.
 

pango

Nomad
Feb 10, 2009
380
6
69
Fife
Milius2, you just banged the nail on the thumb! I've been procrastinating over whether to post on this thread for a couple of days, asking if I really want to do it to myself!

A most fascinating topic and discussion, and far from one solely of interest to "Doomsday Preppers", but rather to all who suffer frustration at living in a socoi-economic climate where people feel they're getting ripped off every way they turn, and as for the idea of Kaczinski as some sort of anti-techno-establishment hero... now he'd be laughing his head off at the knowledge that he'd fooled someone into believing he was acting out of a sense of outrage at science and technology's usurpation of human morality. Has it ocurred to you that he may well represent one of its ultimate consumers?

I'd love to be transported back in time to prehistoric Britain... provided I was in a protective bubble where I could observe unseen. An unexpected vision is beginning to emerge of our idealistic Neolithic and Bronze Age which would bring a smile of satisfaction to the lips of any Victorian Antiquarian, due to recent discoveries indicating that human existence in prehistoric Europe was indeed closer to the savage Victorian model of prehistory than to the Utopian one some have come to envision.

A wee pal and I had a helluva fright when ferreting as boys when my pal put his hand into a rabbit burrow to try to coax his ferret out, and pulled out a human skull instead. On excavation, the remains were found to be face down and it was said to be a Bronze Age burial and, being situated on a still existent ancient crossroad, was either sacrificial, an outcast or a victim of murder.

Ötzi [the Iceman found in Ötztal in 1991] had the blood of three, possibly four other humans on his clothing and seems to have experienced an arduous and protracted pursuit and an extremely violent death. He had arthritis, Lyme disease, heart disease, soot coated lungs, and analysis of a suspected tumour is scheduled for his next day-trip from the freezer compartment he now calls home. Having experienced fully committed farming culture for only about 1,000 years, you'd expect he might be lactose and possibly wheat intolerant, and he was.
He was probably less than fifty years old and it doesn't sound like he had very long to go anyway!

What some might call a complete absence of evidence I'm prepared to argue is compelling evidence for a human pre-history of extreme brutality. To a mountaineer, Ötztal is an obvious and classical line of least resistance connecting Lago da Garda and Merano to the valleys of Austria and onto Germany, and highly likely to have been used as such for millenia. To argue that the one and only, the most ancient well preserved human remains ever discovered in Europe, which at 5,400 Before Present is older than the Great Pyramids, having died in extremely violent circumstances has no significance just beggars belief, and arguably signifies probability if not normality.

If we look at what are undoubtedly sacrificial human remains found in peat deposits in Britain, Ireland, Scandanavia and Germany, combined with recent archaeological evidence which is building an ever expanding picture of a brutal Neolithic, and a Bronze Age that may have been even moreso, any illusions of the peaceful idyll will quickly evaporate and you'll be forced to admit that however tough you think you are, none of us 'strangers' would last ten minutes! Thanks, but no thanks!

There's a lot wrong with the modern world, but we humans developed as such because of our very ability to adapt and instigate change, so do you really want to return to an environment that's trying to kill us off? I for one prefer to hold onto my daydreams whilst taking full advantage of the all the benefits modern science can bring me. :cool:

Now where's that paracetamol!

Cheers.
 

boatman

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Feb 20, 2007
2,444
4
78
Cornwall
Burial at the crossroads was a medieval to modern superstition for suicides. Zero evidence for such a custom in the Neolithic or Bronze Age. In fact tell me the site of a prehistoric crossroads with or with burials?

Of course they had illnesses which had no cure until the twentieth century.

Remember that diseases of nowadays have been evolving as we have so I think that if you went back into the past those early viruses and bacteria probably couldn't touch you.

Climate of Britain during part of the Bronze Age was extremely pleasant and conducive to quite long sea voyages.

Watch Crimewatch on television to see that the we are still cheerfully killing each other. But, and this will please some, he could carry an axe, knife and bow for self-defence. See riots over some tatty pages of a book with killings etc etc.

And, why do you think that you are important enough to be given the honour of being sacrificed?



One would quite possibly last longer than ten minutes. Villages back then were not isolated but part of vast networks and thus must have had conventions for dealing with visitors that most likely would involve the age-old offer of hospitality. Has to have been offered in fact or communications would have ceased or a murdering village would find itself cut out of the trading loop.

It is very possible that offerings of some sort were sent "wrapped in barley straw" from Stonehenge to the temple on Delos. Either carried part way by merchants or prestige gift carriers and passed from tribe to tribe.

No age is a golden age but a traveller in time should have at least have no more trouble than those making first contact with Amazonian tribes or those of New Guinea. Probably considerably less trouble in fact with those places on the mainstream of prehistoric life.

As with any tribal community one would be advised not to get mixed up sexually with the locals and to avoid meddling in local politics.
 
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rik_uk3

Banned
Jun 10, 2006
13,320
24
69
south wales
As people were dead a lot younger than we are there is no poor evidence that the 'modern' diseases we have were not around in ye olde days, in fact the ice man had some according to new research on the poor old buggers body...again. Less than a hundred years ago the biggest killer in the USA was TB, times change and so do people.

I hate diet preachers whether they be vegan, palio,
Atkins bla bla bla. Eat a balanced diet for crying out loud and enjoy life, the stress and effects of what you shouldn't be eating is perhaps just as bad as somebody chomping on big macs everyday. Folk with their heads in a dark place over diet should remove it and look up at the light and thank their stars they have the choice to die from what they choose to eat and not through starvation.

As I eat what I want but use common sense and also that my regularly monitored Cholesterol and BP are good...I'm off for a cup of tea and a couple of jam scones.
 

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