Canoe help

[Earthpeace]

Hi
Just got my first canoe, we sunk it in our lake, to let it swell up because it had been in a garage for a few years and dried out.
I been paddling around our lake with it but she is letting in water. I found some cracks that need filling. Anybody idea of something natural I can use to fill up the cracks, I though of a mix of ash and pinesap but not sure if it would stay in.
Also anyone any ideas on what type of canoe this is? Were it could have been made?









www.ecoferme.com

 

[gregorach]

That be a clinker-built canoe. Very nice! But those splits are problematic...

I know that the "gum" used on birchbark canoes is made from pine resin and animal fat. That might work for waterproofing, but I'd still be worried in this case because that split has probably lost you a lot of strength. But then I don't know squat about clinker-built boats...

 

[Tadpole]

Hi
Just got my first canoe, we sunk it in our lake, to let it swell up because it had been in a garage for a few years and dried out.
I been paddling around our lake with it but she is letting in water. I found some cracks that need filling. Anybody idea of something natural I can use to fill up the cracks, I though of a mix of ash and pinesap but not sure if it would stay in.
Also anyone any ideas on what type of canoe this is? Were it could have been made?

www.ecoferme.com

Personally, I would attempt to strip out the broken plank(s), after cleaning off or removing all the crud, cut the nails through using a hacksaw, put in a new plank, and caulk with wool and tar. This is I feel the best way to repair such cracks as anything else will either damage the hull (ie fibre-glassing) or leave it prone to leaks (just using wool and tar on it’s own)

 

[jojo]

That is a really good quality canoe you got there! Where did you get your hand on that? I am jealous....

How many planks are split? The proper way to repair this is to remove the plank. You can do this by using a hacksaw blade, remove the edge of the teeth by sanding the teeth off on the sides of the blade, to make it as thin as possible so you don't damage the good planks, you can then carefully cut the copper rivets off one by one to remove the plank, preferrably in one piece. then you can use the old plank as a pattern to make another pattern with thin ply ( because the plank is old it would stay in the shape it was on the canoe) you can get thin ply to follow the twisted shape of the plank and then use the ply patter to make a new mahogany plank. It is not easy but that's the proper way to restore something like that..

I think the whole canoe is mahogany, probably all the planks are full length without any joints? Also very close, rounded section, ribs, probably lighter colour Ash?

A less proper way would be to use thickened epoxy to fill the crack and restore some strength. I have used this tactic to repair some plank on a large dinghy recently the guy could not afford a proper repair. It works. Epoxy is about the only thing that will have enough strength and gap filling ability for that sort of repair.

Is there any builder's mark anywhere?

Because the number of planks, I think this is a really good quality build canoe, also I think it may well have been a sailing canoe originally.


I would sell my grandmother's teeth to get my hand on one of those

 

[pothunter]

I agree with Jojo, there appears to be a locating hole for a mast and dagger boards, it may even have had a rudder but cannot see clearly. It must have been some sight under sale.

Pothunter

 

[John Fenna]

I will match the bid if grannies teeth and raise you Uncle Donalds glasseye!
What a beauty.
Want, want, want, want, want,want,..............WANT!



.........once it is repaired - coz that sounds a big job!

 

[jon r]

Looks like a beauty! sould make a nice restoration projust! Hours of fun!

 

[jojo]

Any chance of some more pics??? Pretty please

Now where I have put those grannies, should be enough teeth between them...

Am I seeing thing on the back stem, like it might have a couple of "something" sticking out, like rudder fittings? also those blocks on the gunnels are at the opposite end to the hole in the deck, so could be to hold a steering paddle? they are too far astern to be fixings for dagger boards. Very interesting.

 

[Dano]

its a similar shape to my prospector

 

[Earthpeace]

Thanks for all your interest. Yes- the man who I got it of said the man before him had put a sail and rudder on it but I think it was build like that and not a add on.
I don't think I will have to go remaking it as the bad crack is at the top, well above the water line. There is two crack at each side of the back, at the top.
The water is coming in from some hair line cracks. They are the ones that really need filling.

The wood does run all the way to front and back with no joints.
I filled it up with water this morning to see how much is getting away, tonight when i took the photos she had lost 3 or 4in of water.

Do you think it would be a good idea to coat it in linseed oil and then give it a coat of marine boat varnish.

The man said the canoe had done a lot of traveling in its day.





as you can see the cracks at the top

 

[jojo]

That really is one beautiful, high quality canoe. The man who built her was a real craftsman. That crack, if that's the only one is not much of a problem, If you can reach at the back you could glue or screw a backing pad of wood on the inside. Use small brass screws from the outside, with predrilled holes and countersunk so the heads of the screws are slightly under the surface. Nor need tohide them. It's a bit like a battle scar. Show it with pride!

You can use some nornal linseed oil based putty, in the cracks, the stuff you put around glass in window to fill the crack. If it is too thick for fine cracks, you can always thin it with more linseed oil so that it can get into them. If you use a brown colour putty, it will hardly show.

Pleas don't use epoxy. It would be sort of ok to fill the big cracks, but it's always a mistake to put it everywhere. A boat like that was not designed to be epoxied together.

It would definitely be worth cleaning all the muck, in the seams, along the stems, as they look quite open. You can use putty there as well. Clean the inside well, any loose varnish can be removed in and out and use linseed oil as you said. Also it would be worth sanding, perhaps a hot air gun would be better, the outside and varnishing it with a good quality varnish would really show the beautiful workmanship that went into it. Store it upside down, off the ground in well ventilated but shady place to prevent the wood drying out in the sun.

I think it was built to be a sailing canoe. Those fittings were purpose made for this canoe.

If you can look inside , sometimes the builder would put their mark towards the top of the stems.

I am not sure those blocks were original, they look a bit "agricultural" to me!

I really would love to get my hand on something this quality and restore it. I don't know how much you paid for it but a bit of work and care, and lots of nicely applied varnish will increase its value a lot.

 

[Earthpeace]

Thanks alot for the help jojo ( and everyone else)
I will start that job next week and post some photo as I progress. It does have a plate that says

FR.ANNEMANS
constructeur
177 Bd des Marturs Gand

I found it in france ( i live in france)
You will kick the table when you hear that the man gave it to me free to good home.
Once cleaned up what do you think it would be worth?



www.ecoferme.com

 

[jojo]

You will kick the table when you hear that the man gave it to me free to good home.
Once cleaned up what do you think it would be worth?
www.ecoferme.com

I have kicked it several times.. Got it for free you are lucky.

I have had a search on Yahoo France but got nothing. It's probably Boulevard des Martyrs, Gand does not bring anything, the nearest address on Google Maps is Boulevard des Martyrs, 46300 Gourdon, Lot, Midi-Pyrénées, France. but that seem a funny place for a boat builder. I'll try to find more (I am French, and a boatbuilder), not promising anything though!

As to a price, I I found a 1920 Old Town HW 16' Closed Gunwale for $500, its in a worse state of repair and its in America, and I think things tends to be cheaper over there:

So easily into the hundreds of ££ I should think, possibly into 4 figures particularly if you can find more about the builder and how old the canoe is and do a really good restoration job (I wish I could get my sticky hands on this )

Again in America:http://www.vintagecanoeworks.com/restored/26ot_hw.html

just to show you what a good restoration can sell for.


By the way, I wouldn't leave that water in there too long...

 

[decorum]

I'm really hoping that this link is accurate:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gand - which says that Gand is the French name for Ghent, a city and provincial capital located in Flanders, Belgium

I hope it points to new avenues for finding out about the history of this craft.

 

[jojo]

I had another Google of that address in Ghent/Gand, but they don't seem to have a Boulevard des Martyrs in Ghent.
Just about every french towm, big and small have one! I tried the name in a search in Yahoo france again but nothing coming up.


I am just sent a Email to a french naval architect. Never know, I may get an answer back!

 

[decorum]

I've been trying to find decent historical maps in case the street has been demolished (war*, re-developement et.c). I've found maps; resoultion isn't not clear enough to read street names. Without knowing the approximate date that the canoe was built makes searching a tad difficult.

*As there doesn't seem to be an indication of date of build I'm assuming that the canoe could possibly pre-date the First World War.

 

[jojo]

I should think so, yes. It looks to me like a Victorian era sailing canoe. I don't know how long this one is, but its not easy to find good quality planking long enough suitable for full length planking. Look to me like the planking is Mahogany, so are the gunwale and thwarts. The decks seem to be Ash.

The other thing is I can't see how the planks are fixed to the ribs, they aren't copper riveted, can't see if the copper rivets are clenched ( points bent over on the inside) That only leaves hundred of screws as an option. How many planks per side and frames are there, Earthpeace?

Nobody that I know of would build one like that, few people have the skills or the time or the inclination. A new professional build like that would cost thousands.

 

[Earthpeace]

Thanks for you time.:You_Rock_
The word GAND the end ( D) could be a B, O or G as it is hard to make out.
There is 12 strips of wood each side of the frame , each lat is overlapping the one below ( like roof tiles) then every 3" or so there is a brass ?nail? in the bottom of the top lat through the top of the next one, On the inside of the canoe all the nails are in line with the ribs so they likely go into the ribs as well.

 

[jojo]

I have had a reply from from the french naval architect! I didn't expect much and certainly not so soon!

He did not know the name but he feels that the name and address point to Belgium rather than France, which fits with the few bits deduced below. He has given me another couple of leads where I may be able to find more info, which I'll follow.

Are the nails bent back on themselves on the inside or do they have roves, (small copper washers) through which the nail are riveted? and how long, wide and deep is the canoe? It may be the gaps between the frames are copper riveted and screws used into the frame.

 

[Earthpeace]

The nails are bent back on them selves. I will measure the canoe tomorrow.
Here are some photos, today I pressure washed the inside and coated it with a good coating of linseed oil. I found the hole that is letting in water under all the dirt, a marble sized hole.
Which I will likely need to epoxy in.
I gave the plate a good clean and looks like it is- after all a D at the end (Gand).













www.ecoferme.com