BushcraftUK knife?
- Thread starter ozzy1977
- Start date
-
Hey Guest, Early bird pricing on the Summer Moot (29th July - 10th August) available until April 6th, we'd love you to come. PLEASE CLICK HERE to early bird price and get more information.
There were a couple of proto types at the moot last month, but the production quality from the company was pretty bad 
.... so as far as I know, its still being worked on...... its a long term project that wont be rushed.
Ed
.... so as far as I know, its still being worked on...... its a long term project that wont be rushed.Ed
I have been waiting in anticipation for news on this project. I hope it comes to fruition soon, money burns holes you know
We had two prototypes at the Moot. Initial impression of the blades were that they were great, and that the handles were dire. Feedback was sent to the manufacturer and it turned out that they were fully aware of these failings and were not in any way intending to have them carry over into a production item.
Handle shaping on a one-off prototype is a difficult thing for a company that usually makes batches of hundreds or even thousands since they use tooling and jigs to ensure they get the right shape. A one off is highly labour intensive hand work, and as such isn't truely representative of what you will get when production starts anyway. I was disappointed, but am not so bothered now.
One of the prototypes had enough material on the handle for me to do some re-shaping so that it was more like what we wanted. With that done I have been playing around with it and am very impressed with the steel and heat treatment. It sharpens easy, takes a wicked edge and seems to hold it for a good length of time.
We haven't nailed all the details yet, but we are looking at a flat grind, trying for a convex edge, thin stock of around 3mm, stainless steel and Micarta, stabilized or heavy tropical wood handle.
There should be more info in a few more weeks. It sadens me that things have taken so long, initial promises were that we would have prototypes in hand for May this year, but various glitches cropped up which slowed things down. Oh well, such things are to be expected, even if they aren't welcome
Handle shaping on a one-off prototype is a difficult thing for a company that usually makes batches of hundreds or even thousands since they use tooling and jigs to ensure they get the right shape. A one off is highly labour intensive hand work, and as such isn't truely representative of what you will get when production starts anyway. I was disappointed, but am not so bothered now.
One of the prototypes had enough material on the handle for me to do some re-shaping so that it was more like what we wanted. With that done I have been playing around with it and am very impressed with the steel and heat treatment. It sharpens easy, takes a wicked edge and seems to hold it for a good length of time.
We haven't nailed all the details yet, but we are looking at a flat grind, trying for a convex edge, thin stock of around 3mm, stainless steel and Micarta, stabilized or heavy tropical wood handle.
There should be more info in a few more weeks. It sadens me that things have taken so long, initial promises were that we would have prototypes in hand for May this year, but various glitches cropped up which slowed things down. Oh well, such things are to be expected, even if they aren't welcome
CC, Sorry I have to disagree, if they cant get the quality right on a 'one off' they are going to have a hard time with 000's of models. I have been around and dealing knives for a while now and there are some manufacturers that just dont have good enough QC, they have 'good enough', but for whom?
Sorry for the partial rant, its always a source of irritation to get excuses from makers when a blind man on a flying horse at night can clearly see issues, yet they bring it along to show you! I think that speaks volumes about the maker to be honest.
Sorry for the partial rant, its always a source of irritation to get excuses from makers when a blind man on a flying horse at night can clearly see issues, yet they bring it along to show you! I think that speaks volumes about the maker to be honest.
Simon, part of me wants to agree, I would have much preferred to have had the initial example as an exact match to our prototype. On reflection however I am not sure what it would prove.
My background is as a mechanical engineer working in aerospace, when we want a one-off we normally have to pay money for some tooling if we want a representative sample. This has also been the position taken by the knife manufacturers that I have spoken to. If we want it to be representative of production they need to use the same technique to make it as they will in production. However, we have asked to have some knives made up without tooling to get an idea of what the companies can do. (I have also obtained production knives to help judge production quality).
It is possible to judge fit and finish to some extent, but just because someone does a good or bad job of hand finishing the handle of a one-off, using files and sandpaper, it does not necessarily mean that you will get the same result when different people shape it using a belt grinder, jigs and guages.
Maybe I am wrong. This is not an industry I am familiar with and many of my working assumptions come from a combination of handmaking knives, and engineering in a completely different industry.
Now, if we pay for tooling and the first production sample is not up to par, then we will have something to complain about.
My background is as a mechanical engineer working in aerospace, when we want a one-off we normally have to pay money for some tooling if we want a representative sample. This has also been the position taken by the knife manufacturers that I have spoken to. If we want it to be representative of production they need to use the same technique to make it as they will in production. However, we have asked to have some knives made up without tooling to get an idea of what the companies can do. (I have also obtained production knives to help judge production quality).
It is possible to judge fit and finish to some extent, but just because someone does a good or bad job of hand finishing the handle of a one-off, using files and sandpaper, it does not necessarily mean that you will get the same result when different people shape it using a belt grinder, jigs and guages.
Maybe I am wrong. This is not an industry I am familiar with and many of my working assumptions come from a combination of handmaking knives, and engineering in a completely different industry.
Now, if we pay for tooling and the first production sample is not up to par, then we will have something to complain about.
Tend to agree with you Chris, clients always want samples but to tool up for a one-off is phenomenally expensive and frankly isn't going to happen unless the client pays - which the client never wants to!
The key is to agree what is and is not acceptable up front, ensure that the purchase order/contract reflects this and that no cash will be paid for units which do not meet this.
Of course if you maker is in Far East or India they will likely want cash up front so you are stuffed! All good fun.
The key is to agree what is and is not acceptable up front, ensure that the purchase order/contract reflects this and that no cash will be paid for units which do not meet this.
Of course if you maker is in Far East or India they will likely want cash up front so you are stuffed! All good fun.
Depending on the maker, prototypes can be very close to production pieces.
The problem with tooling for a proto is the cost of the tooling. Anywhere from $5K to $30K depending on the model.
If there are changes, then new tooling is required.
Most makers in the East are smaller shops with the owner making the protos, and their time is usually tight as they work in their shops.
Forming wood handles is even more complicated. Even with tooling, we find variation from handle to handle. Not a big problem with leather sheaths, but a real nightmare with Kydex or Boltaron which has very close tolerance requirements (.005).
sal
The problem with tooling for a proto is the cost of the tooling. Anywhere from $5K to $30K depending on the model.
If there are changes, then new tooling is required.
Most makers in the East are smaller shops with the owner making the protos, and their time is usually tight as they work in their shops.
Forming wood handles is even more complicated. Even with tooling, we find variation from handle to handle. Not a big problem with leather sheaths, but a real nightmare with Kydex or Boltaron which has very close tolerance requirements (.005).
sal
are there any pictures of the prototypes? would like to see as could not get to the moot. thanks
David
David
There are a couple of different designs that are being worked on.... there probably wont be any pics until the final design (after alot of field testing) is agreed on.
Ed
Ed
sharp88 said:Not even a sketch.
Well, here is the sketch, but as you can see, it still needs work...............
.... my neice loves the pink handle Jon Pickett said:Well, here is the sketch, but as you can see, it still needs work...............
Now you're talking! Bushcraft pink floats my boat anyway.
Burnt Ash
Do you remember those keyrings that answered to a whistle? you could fit one of those in the handle and call for it Swyn
SwynJon Pickett said:Well, here is the sketch, but as you can see, it still needs work...............
Wow - a pink handled scandi grind Tanto?
Lol.........It was meant to be bushcraft knife shaped, have you ever tried to draw anything in "paint" on these things..............redcollective said:
