Bushcraft - Survival

[tanto]

Survival is the knowledge on how to survive in harsh conditions. IMHO survival is a central part of bushcraft. It is not only necessary knowledge for your personal security if something goes wrong. There is a lot of similar techniques making fire, shelter, cooking, eatable plants and so on. Surviving is more about keeping yourself alive with all means using a minimalistic and functional approach so you dont spend water/calories unnecessarily. While bushcraft is more about getting a intimate and comfortable nature experience.

Am i wrong? How would you describe the difference between these two, if any?

 

[wingstoo]

Hi Folks,

I would like to think they could go hand in hand, both have their good points and their bad points, in some things they are the same but opposite (eh)
they both give ways to live in the countryside, in Bushcraft you do it without making a big footprint, whereas in survival you want to make a big footprint so that you can be found. Well I think that's what I want to say?

LS

 

[-Switch-]

Both revolve around the same knowledge, skills and understanding. The main difference is that bushcraft is a hobby or a knowledge that we have voluntarily taken upon ourselves, whereas survival is usually a forced situation.

We can afford to have respect for our surroundings and perform more complicated tasks and learn more intricate skills.
A person in a survival situation would by-pass all of these in order to get out of the situation as quickly as possible.

 

[ilan]

The thinking is totaly different whilst many of the skills are similar with survival
you live for the short term take what you can without thinking of thelong term future cutting down trees to make shelters fires taking what ever recources you can . bushcraft takes the longer view usiing bashas carfully husbanding recources , pollarding trees replanting for next visit etc

 

[wingstoo]

So when Ray Mears did the programme with the RAF Pilots, was he thinking long term or short term? Was he teaching Bushcraft skills or was he teaching survival skills?

Just a thought?

LS

 

[Naruska]

In my opinion, survival is getting along in a place you don`t want to be...bushcraft is existing in a chosen location more or less voluntarily

Marko

 

[British Red]

Interestingly, I find all threads that try to draw exclusive definitions fairly unhelpful. Why do any of these things have to be one thing or the other. As LS said, Mr Mears started off talking about survival and only later called it "Bushcraft". A term previously used as two words by Mors Kochanski and I suspect he may have borrowed it in turn.

There are a lot of "overlapping circles" of hobbies here - bushcraft, survival, ecological studies, forestry, naturalism, photography, camping, bladesmithing, wild food collection, mycology etc.etc.

Its interesting to hear people define bushcraft as a more ecologically friendly pursuit than others - personally I'm not sure I agree! Sure harvesting "some" fomes or whatever is better than all - but is it as good as not touching? Conversley, is lacking the understanding of what it is and why its useful a good thing...

My honest view is that none of us have precisiely the same interests or skills. So what? We have enough in common to share conversations and hopefully friendships. Why classify it at all?

Red

 

[bloodline]

Total respect British Red you have put my garbled opions into words :You_Rock_

 

[martin]

The skills are the same. The difference is the amount of bog roll you've got

 

[Goose]

I think the ethos is different between bushcraft and survival even though most of the skills are the same.

Survival, to me the main priority is to get out of the situation and back to a comfortable enviroment.

Bushcraft is about extending your stay and making the situation you are in more comfortable.

If you go out in the woods for a day, maybe two, you can carry all you need, food, water, shelter fuel etc on your back, you can call it camping if you want.
More than a couple of days you won't be able to carry enough water, you will have to replen, you can use a tap, or find water and filter it. Your pack is lighter when you start, knowledge and/or a water filter weighs less than the water you would carry for a couple of days.
More than about a week you will have to forage/catch food, again knowledge and/or snares weigh less than your food would. A weeks fuel would also be impractical so you have to make a fire, again knowledge/skill weighs nothing.

A bushman (or most aboriginal peoples) carry very basic kit but lots of knowledge/skill, bushcrafting IMHO is trying to get back to these basics.

The bushman survives pretty well with next to nothing, as we generally see it, and I think I am pretty good at surviving, managed 38 years not out up to now! I couldn't survive for long as a bushman as he could probably not survive, without some training and practice, in my situation.

 

[falcon]

So when Ray Mears did the programme with the RAF Pilots, was he thinking long term or short term? Was he teaching Bushcraft skills or was he teaching survival skills?

Just a thought?

LS

The early series had survival in their name...that only changed to "bushcraft" when the marketing emphasis changed. Don't run out of "roll" Martin, you won't "survive"....

 

[Nemisis]

I agree Red as individuals we listen learn and adapt to ideas and experiences from others here to suit and fit our own needs and wants. We help and advise from those thoughts and experiences to enrich other folks times outdoors and hope in some small way that knowledge helps preserve it better for us all. But in the end its our ability to adapt to situations and to learn that gives us the greatest pleasures and makes us want more. Who cares what label others stick on it thats there choice.
Dave.

 

[cod3man]

well, I will chime in, I do agree as well- trying to classify survival/ bushcraft might turn you around some. So I would add that they are the same. The difference comes only that survival is when you are out of tune, where as bushcraft is when you are in tune. You light a fire because you want to- not as a need. You decide to carve a spoon, forage for food. Not you build a shelter with what you have because you have a broken leg, or your lost, being chased by people with guns etc.... So far I have always been in tune.

 

[SMARTY]

When RM did the programme with the RAF pilots he showed a bit of the course that deals with survival in a hostile (enemy) situation evading capture and doing the procedures required to get yourself rescued. This is quite a way from bushcraft. The course is the instructors course and the people on it build on their basic (bushcraft!!!) survival skills to maintain hydration and energy levels that will enable them to move (evade capture)

Combat Survival is a different beast to bushcraft.............? However you can be comfortable and "At one" with nature whilst on the run........ Perhaps we could call it tactical Bushcraft?

What do you think?

 

[Stuart]

This topic is a reoccurring one that has been discussed at length on this forum a number of times in the past.

Old threads like this one might provide the answers you seek:

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/community/showthread.php?t=4&highlight=bushcraft+survival

 

[harlequin]

NAH NAH NAH!
You've already said what everyone thinks

Survival is having to do it!

Bushcraft is wanting to do it!

You can be as comfortable as want/choose!

 

[RovingArcher]

According to Merriam Webster Dictionary:

Survival: a living or continuing longer than another person or thing b : the continuation of life or existence.

Survive: to continue to live on or prosper

Bushcraft isn't in the dictionary, but Woodlore is and it simply means *knowledge of the woods*.

Bushcraft seems to incorporate both a knowledge of the woods and the ability to prosper there.

 

[demographic]

Everyone so far is wrong, it's all about the cutlery.

Give a "Survivalist" a spoon (or even better a spork) and he/she will scoff his/her food with it...

Give a "Bushcrafter" a spoon and he/she will ask for an anvil and a hammer so he/she can make a scandi grind AW style knife so he/she can carve a spoon with it

Then they will ask you what style of undercrackers Ray was wearing in episode 3 of his last series and are those particular type of undercrackers the best for "Bushcraft" before explaining why they need a 200 quid handforged knife to open packaging at work.









Ok then perhaps a slightly more serious answer, my take on it is that it all used to be called "Survival" years ago till Michael Ryan went off his head and shot loads of people.
After The Sun and other assorted tabloids had finished with their "Dangerous Dogs" style journalism which involved anyone with even a vague interest in the subject being regarded as a potential murderer (or even worse if they owned a "Devil Dog" the people promoting "Survival" skills realised that their marketing would work a lot better with a different title.

Anyway, don't most of us live in the UK?
Not exactly in The Bush is it?
As just about anywhere in the UK is no more than a couple of hundred yards from some old dear caller Ethel's garden so perhaps we should say that we are practicing Herbaceous Bordercraft
Oh and I forgot to mention that as the porn industry has nicked the term "woodsman" it wasn't the most acceptable term to use either.

 

[Wayland]

I think the constant raising of this subject has a lot to do with external perceptions, tabloid or otherwise.

I first heard the term bushcraft in the late seventies and it fitted in well with the low impact type camping that I was interested in.

In the eighties "Survivalism" became the term everyone was using, and even before the Hungerford incident, it seemed to have a slightly more right wing atmosphere about it.

Somehow, many of the publications almost seemed to relish the idea of chaos , disaster and the end of the World as we know it. After all, without these scenarios there would be no real need for "Survival" skills.

Oddly enough, I used to shoot handguns regularly back then, but I was al;ways much more uncomfortable being called a survivalist than a gun nut. Somehow the survival stuff was just too "Rambo" for my liking.

That of course did not stop me learning a lot from "Survival" books and buying "Survival" gear if it was useful. Looking back I guess "Survivalism" fitted in perfectly with the Thatcher years.

These days, even though many of the skills are essentially the same, I think the term "Bushcraft" carries slightly less political baggage and perhaps that is why some people feel more comfortable with it.

We don't need a disaster to get us into the wilderness, we go there because we want to.

 

[singteck]

Sounds like you try to survive first before you try to 'bushcraft'.

singteck