Bushcraft/survival fitness and conditioning

pango

Nomad
Feb 10, 2009
380
6
70
Fife
The problem with survival situations is that the vast majority of people don't expect to be placed in one and aren't prepared for it. It's not exactly something you'd "expect"!

Some of us deliberately put ourselves in situations where we know there will be certain consequences if things don't go to plan so we prepare for what we hope will be the worst case. Most people, however, think it won't happen to them, or even consider, "what if...".

I've travelled the world by sea, land and air since leaving school and couldn't even guess how many vocational survival courses (survival at sea, desert; helicopter, ship, lifeboat, car/truck mechanics; first aid, firefighting, etc) I've taken, or more to the point, been forced to take. It's usually fun once you get there but they're normally done in your own time rather than the company's, and that's always a bummer!

Most survival courses concentrate on surviving the initial crisis, ie, the impact of a plane or chopper crash and abandonment of whatever vessel. In the offshore oil industry it has become standard practice to refresh every couple of years and it becomes instinctive after a while to pay attention to your orientation to the nearest exit and any other aspect giving the slightest advantage, like how many seat-backs from the door you are and how to get the doors open! The really important realisation is that the whole is composed of individual stages, each of which must be overcome.
If you fail in one stage of the initial crisis, ie; forgetting your seat-belt is still buckled: no matter how fit or strong... the rest is purely academic!

I take commercial flights regularly and have to say that every time I fly, I can't help noticing those who have heard it all before and prefer their newspaper to the in-flight briefing, and thinking to myself, "I've seen tougher men than you screaming in panic."

I have, in my day, abandoned a ship, 2 drilling rigs, and spent some time in a life-boat, thankfully only about 24 hours. I worked with a guy who spent 3 days floating alone in a life-jacket in the South China Sea and have spent the night in a boat looking for someone who fell overboard in the Arabian Sea. We never found him and to my knowledge, no trace was ever found. In another incident, abandoning a rig off the coast of India, one guy slipped when getting into a boat at sea level and by the time we got him in-board something had bitten off a bum-cheek.

There's a well known story of a Chinese cook who survived alone in a lifeboat for something horrible like 70 days after a ship of the Ben Line sank at sea in the Far East. Other survivors swore that there were others in the boat with him when it was last seen and he was accused of cannibalism. Huh, Orientals! No Brit would ever do such a thing! The fact remains though, that he lived while the ones you'd expect to survive, the sailors, didn't. But the ascent of the least expected individuals in such circumstances is by no means unique.

If I've learned anything it's that you can practice and drill until doomsday, but it's still the small things that count. Practice and familiarity improve your chances of course, training for the event if you want to brood on what might go wrong, but it's the slips, missed steps, inattentiveness and panic that will remove you most quickly from the gene-pool, physically fit or not, and I'm convinced that the same is true for the longer term.
 
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BOD

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
...,

There's a well known story of a Chinese cook who survived alone in a lifeboat for something horrible like 70 days after a ship of the Ben Line sank at sea in the Far East. Other survivors swore that there were others in the boat with him when it was last seen and he was accused of cannibalism. Huh, Orientals! No Brit would ever do such a thing! , ....

I agree with evrything else you said but I hope you did not mean this seroiusly because maritime history shows that cannibalism knew no racial barriers
 

Minotaur

Native
Apr 27, 2005
1,624
246
Birmingham
Are you prescribing bodyweight exercise because it can be performed while out in the bush, or in general.

Both. Also for our purposes you strengthen the support or guide muscles. Bodyweight is not so much about how much you can lift but how well.

And they are the same muscles being used, in regards to walking and running, as previously stated.

Not really a different set of muscles. Hip flexor lifts the leg, tibialis anterior lifts the foot. Glute contracts along with quads and calves to push off. Jogging and walking, all with the legs.

Can not find the major differences but think the big one is the Quads. The statement does hold water because a runners major muscles are not the same as a walkers.
 

wentworth

Settler
Aug 16, 2004
573
3
40
Australia
Without derailing this thread too much, I'm a personal trainer and use bodyweight, resistance bands as well as traditional weights in sessions. The body can't tell the difference between a pound of resistance from bodyweight and a pound of resistance from a dumbbell.

Whilst some resistance machines have a set plane of movement which limits the use of stabilizers, it's not true that bodyweight is the only modality that requires the use of the core muscles (abs, erector spinae, transverse abdominus, internal and external obliques) to stabilize.
Dumbbell exercises also require this, as do kettlebell training, olympic lifts etc. One training method is not superior to the other.

And not to get into an online disagreement regarding different muscles used, but there are only so many muscles used in the body:
Hip flexion: hip flexors
Hip extension: glutes
knee flexion: hamstrings
knee extension: quads
ankle plantar flexion: calves
ankle dorsi flexion: tibialis anterior

If you want to achieve knee flexion, you have no alternative but to use your hamstrings. Doesn't matter if you're walking or running. If you want to achieve hip flexion, the hip flexors must be used. There are not two identical sets of muscles side by side, one lot for running and one for walking.
The only variables with running and walking are the degree of muscular contraction and the dynamic nature of the contraction with running.

Apologies once again to the OP.
 
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pango

Nomad
Feb 10, 2009
380
6
70
Fife
Originally Posted by pango
he was accused of cannibalism. Huh, Orientals! No Brit would ever do such a thing! , ....

I agree with evrything else you said but I hope you did not mean this seroiusly because maritime history shows that cannibalism knew no racial barriers

It was a sarcastic remark, Bod! This thread seems to have died of irrelevance anyway, mate.

Cheers.
 

jungle_re

Settler
Oct 6, 2008
600
0
Cotswolds
you think? Most of the post that state there derailing seem quite pertinent to me to the original ethos of the thread.

Im also not certain id call half the satatory courses a true survival course. The BOSIET course to me just seemed like the majority of it was designed just against litigation and permit creation, although some areas are well thought out. The dunker drill is taught IMO in a far more relistic senario and process including a large fear element which the centre i attended for my BOSIET didnt (PETANS and RNAS yeovilton repectfully). Your comments do really highlight the different strains though on a person in a marine environment compared to a terestrial one. I'd certainly take my chances on land rather than at sea and as such always carry a small PLB in my coveralls when on the back deck as that of a far higher use to me in the event of a incident than a few minutes better run time over 3 miles.

There has been lots of comments about ones mental state and the survival will and i throughly belive in this however in my experience the balance between mental attitude and physcial condition/fitness is somewhat missjudged. Nothing ive experience or seen in others tests mental determination and stress better than physical exhaustion and sleep deprivation; which are likely to feature heavily in any real survival situation. A stronger fitter body will greatly reduce the load on the mind. The brain is your biggest asset but the one easiet lost
 

Harley

Forager
Mar 15, 2010
142
2
London
Possibly a good time to mention the superior ability of the ladies to withstand pain and sleep deprivation?
 

Harley

Forager
Mar 15, 2010
142
2
London
Yes there are studies to validate my assertion, however, to the casual observer this is most evident during multi-day endurance events.

In addition to superior mental/emotional stability, the physical stresses are often lessened when comparing women to men. Well developed muscular men struggle when on restricted food intake (bigger engines require bigger fuel tanks) and can lose excess fluids through 'ineffective sweating'.

Anyone with an Athens account can probably find related studies, I'm happy to stand corrected if I've misquoted the research :)
 

memorire

Member
Jan 21, 2010
35
0
Germany
hi

i am sorry i did not read the whole thread so if i repeat something i already said i apologize. i dont think there is some special "bushcraft" physical conditioning you need or can acquire. if you have a decent conditioning for prolonged aerobe activities that is enough for bushcraft. besides while out and about you do train while bushcrafting so if somebody would want to improve that i would say the best thing to do is to do bushcrafting ;)

you want tougher hands? carve, make fire with drills, climb etc. you want better stamina? go for longer distances or hilly terrain.consider commuting to your work by bike and you will have a nice workout 2 times a day.


cheers
 

Minotaur

Native
Apr 27, 2005
1,624
246
Birmingham
Without derailing this thread too much, I'm a personal trainer and use bodyweight, resistance bands as well as traditional weights in sessions. The body can't tell the difference between a pound of resistance from bodyweight and a pound of resistance from a dumbbell.

True, but I have to carry my bodyweight with me. I am not carrying dumbbells etc.. There is also a reason this sort of exercise has been coming back for 30 plus years. Which a lot of the time is I do not want to be able to lift my 3 x my bodyweight once, but to be able to lift that axe as often in a day as I can.

Whilst some resistance machines have a set plane of movement which limits the use of stabilizers, it's not true that bodyweight is the only modality that requires the use of the core muscles (abs, erector spinae, transverse abdominus, internal and external obliques) to stabilize.
Dumbbell exercises also require this, as do kettlebell training, olympic lifts etc. One training method is not superior to the other.

For bushcraft, one method is superior, bodyweight wins because you do not really need a lot of kit. Certain exercises are better for different things, it depends what your end goal is.

I would actual argue that you are missing the point of a lot of the stuff you use. The whole point of kettlebells is they do the same thing that dumbbells do but require more muscles to come into play.

And not to get into an online disagreement regarding different muscles used, but there are only so many muscles used in the body:
Hip flexion: hip flexors
Hip extension: glutes
knee flexion: hamstrings
knee extension: quads
ankle plantar flexion: calves
ankle dorsi flexion: tibialis anterior

If you want to achieve knee flexion, you have no alternative but to use your hamstrings. Doesn't matter if you're walking or running. If you want to achieve hip flexion, the hip flexors must be used. There are not two identical sets of muscles side by side, one lot for running and one for walking.
The only variables with running and walking are the degree of muscular contraction and the dynamic nature of the contraction with running.

Apologies once again to the OP.

While there are not two sets of muscles, they are used differently. Running uses quads a lot more than walking.
 

TeeDee

Full Member
Nov 6, 2008
10,981
4,093
50
Exeter
( Bump )

I was doing a random search for Wim Hof and this thread came back.

I'm an advocate of Cold Water Immersion.
Culminating in this.



Swimming off of the Norway Coast.

c1.jpg

c2.jpg

c3.jpg


Apologies for the facial shots - not normally big on that , but kinda difficult to do so without it.

I'm still exploring Cold Water Immersion , currently I have an IBC on my patio i've converted to have a hatch fitted with a Digital Thermometer. Aim to use Twice a day.

Also very tempted to invest in a Chest freezer and Timer to have a regulated Ice Bath.

My thoughts on Wim Hof are that he is a good showman and maybe believes his own hype on a pseudo spiritual level but I do believe and experienced the benefits of Physical and mental/mood for myself.
 
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Van-Wild

Full Member
Feb 17, 2018
1,526
1,360
45
UK
( Bump )

I was doing a random search for Wim Hof and this thread came back.

I'm an advocate of Cold Water Immersion.
Culminating in this.



Swimming off of the Norway Coast.

View attachment 61143

View attachment 61144

View attachment 61145


Apologies for the facial shots - not normally big on that , but kinda difficult to do so without it.

I'm still exploring Cold Water Immersion , currently I have an IBC on my patio i've converted to have a hatch fitted with a Digital Thermometer. Aim to use Twice a day.

Also very tempted to invest in a Chest freezer and Timer to have a regulated Ice Bath.

My thoughts on Wim Hof are that he is a good showman and maybe believes his own hype on a pseudo spiritual level but I do believe and experienced the benefits of Physical and mental/mood for myself.
Came across this at random....

My experience of cold water immersion is that it is good for the muscles. Many theories abound over whether its best before or after strenuous exercise. I dont immerse myself in a cold tub (although I did entertain the idea of buying a second hand chest freezer and a digital thermometer for the garage gym.....) but what I often do after a post workout shower is steadily turn the water temp down until its freezing cold. Seems to help with muscle soreness.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk
 
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TeeDee

Full Member
Nov 6, 2008
10,981
4,093
50
Exeter
Came across this at random....

My experience of cold water immersion is that it is good for the muscles. Many theories abound over whether its best before or after strenuous exercise. I dont immerse myself in a cold tub (although I did entertain the idea of buying a second hand chest freezer and a digital thermometer for the garage gym.....) but what I often do after a post workout shower is steadily turn the water temp down until its freezing cold. Seems to help with muscle soreness.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk

Obviously depending on ones goals...

Want better Mood? - Cold Water Immersion increases Norepinephrine and 'feel good chemicals '

Want to burn Fat ? - Cold Water Immersion seems that it turns White Fat into Brown Fat

Want to Burn Fat but maybe disabled or too heavy to exercise? - Cold water will transfer heat 24.17 times faster than Air. So cold water thermogenesis can be used as a weight loss program for those injured/immobile or initially Too heavy.


Want less wrinkles and improved Skin Collagen ? - Cold Water Immersion is a cheap and effective beauty treatment for helping skin tone and vascularisation.

Want a better Immune system? - Yes , Cold water Immersion achieves that.
 

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