Bushcraft/survival fitness and conditioning

[1234]

this subject has got me really going for it now
i remember seeing this video a couple of months ago, it seems appropriate with this being a fitness discussion on a bushcraft forum

[video=youtube;gHJG28JfAmA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHJG28JfAmA[/video]

 

[calibanzwei]

Be able to complete a simple suduko puzzle after have only 2 hours sleep for 5 days

What? Can't even do them now! Give me a nice codeword puzzle anyday

 

[BOD]

...
As for fitness or conditioning for bushcraft then hes a few starter for 10s for disscussion

...
Be a strong swimmer (power rather than speed)...

Since I can only do some of the things mentioned I best confine myself to something I know about.

What is needed in a survival situation is efficient swimming technique not strength or speed.

I am terribly unfit but with a competitive swimming background can go on for distances which would sink a fit person with poor technique.

 

[jungle_re]

Ash i certainly can not all those mentioned but those i cant i have been in situation where if i was able to do it would have been exceptionly usefull.

By strong swimmer i did not mean physically strong but confident in the water and capable of swimming in moving waters
Would you class technique orientated acctivities as conditioning? Good technique and conditioning giving muscle memory would impove the persons efficiency and duration.

Surely your ability to out swim those fitter is due to your previous practice and practice adn although your fitness may have deterioated the technique and muscle memory remains from the repatiton; does this sound correct?

 

[xylaria]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/scotsol/hom...nk-braves-Pentland-Firth-and-Hells-Mouth.html

This link is about a 50 years old that swum the pentland firth between orkney and mainland scotland. When I went for a small swim in shetland 6 weeks ago I realised very quickly just how bloomin cold the water up there is. swimming a mile in english water makes little differance when the sea temp is that low. Having a BMI of about 28 I would give myself less than 10 minutes to live if the bluemull ferry sank, and thats if the cold shock didn't stop my heart first. Conditioning a body can also mean cold conditioning as well as general fitness, as does learning your limits. The idea that someone has to look like some youthful adonis, be able to fit enough to survive is frankly nonsense when you are in freezing water. Experience, knowledge, fat levels, and shear bloody mindedness would win anyday.

 

[spiritwalker]

i would consider myself fit (cycle and walk alot) not a great swimmer i can swim in a pool but if the poo hit the fan and i went overboard fully clothed i would not fancy my chances, but one thing i have noticed is your body is only used to what you do regular i can walk many miles without tiring but if i ran a mile id throw up. When i have done some labouring i get stiff and sore so unless you train every part of you to do the things you think you would need to do regularly i guess its near impossible to be match fit for every circumstance. I know people who train in gyms and run but get knackered walking up hills which leads me to think the only training you can do is the actual thing you aim to do.

In respect to survival i keep alot of fat mates :-D if your chased by a bear you can outrun or stab them in the leg :-D
If you get cold er i suppose you could cuddle them oooh eer
if you get starving you can eat them :-D

i went from 16.5 stone to 13 stone in 12 months through getting off my **** and doing a bit and i have noticed a few things...
i feel the cold alot more
i dont float so easily in the water

but the pros are i am much fitter now
i dont sweat as much

i still have another half a stone or so to shift to get to my scientifically determined weight but its on a back burner as i like my grub :-D

 

[Laurentius]

if your chased by a bear you can outrun or stab them in the leg :-D
If you get cold er i suppose you could cuddle them oooh eer
if you get starving you can eat them :-D

Personally I find this kind of discussion disturbing and ableist. You can try and keep yourself as fit as you like but at the end of the day it comes down to what yours genes have dealt you with, not to mention other circumstances that might theretically put you back in the race for survival.

I spend a reasonable amount of time in the gym, but there is no point kidding myself that I can ever keep up with some folk there. We are all made differently what some people can lift, they cannot hold, and while some folks can run a marathon, others win a sprint, both of which might be useful in different circumstances, it's the luck of the draw as to whether you are within your depth or out of it, in the swimming pool of survival. I would say (because I would say, having little choice in the matter) that the right attitude is probably the most important, to make use of what you have, not be fazed by what you have not.

Well if I am faced by a bear, I will just have to reason with it won't I? and if my impeccable logic fails I will just have to grab the beast where it hurts. That goes for Mr Grylls too if he comes round here and dares to abseil off my roof.

 

[jamalex]

Nice one, Laurentius. Made me laugh!

I used to do weights at the gym, play squash like a lunatic, rowing machine and treadmill. My dad could still saw for longer, hammer nails easier and work for longer. I could move heavier loads, but not for as long.

I agree that just do what you need to do for the environment you are going into. At the moment I try to give my daughters piggy back rides to make carrying a pack easier for camping trips

Alex

 

[big_swede]

I don't believe genes play that big role as we like to think. There have been numerous studies that have shown this. Training requires dedication.

Metabolism doesn't change much with age either so no use in blaming that beer belly on age.

Speaking of fitness and stamina. A sprinter will be better at a marathon than a marathon runner at a sprint. Explosive fitness also benefits long term stamina. That is one of the basal things in e.g. crossfit. Marathon runners actually do work out with heavy weights. So does road bikers. And thriathletes.

I really don't understand the often heard talk of "I can walk forever but not run" as if anybody who could run couldn't walk forever too, only probably faster and with less strain.

Fitter is better, that is the bottom line. If you're fit your metabolism adapt better, your body will learn new movement patterns easier, you sleep better, you can handle all types of stress better etc etc. There is no benefits whatsoever of being unfit. It's not by chance it's called survival of the fittest...

But fitness has to be functional to be of any use. And a functional fitness is hardly honed in a ordinary health club these days. Isolating weight lifting exercises are of little value in the real world (except maybe on the beach..).

 

[BOD]

I think we are deviating from a bit from the original post.

The best thing is doing what the environment requires so while running up steps is good running up hills is better. Swimming in a pool is not as good as surf swimming as every Aussie life saver knows.

If you can't do the activity itself then something which trains the whole body how to adapt to the immediate environment is best.

So Will should do something like le Parkour


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkour

Post a video after a few month. Bear will be green with envy

 

[jungle_re]

I like that alot especially the efficiency basis for it however it will be a long time off before (if ever) i could accomplise half those moves. It would have to be take though as emphasis on efficiency is based on speed where as i think what i would be more aiming for would be more of a compromise of energy expenditure/time/risk of injury.

I have a funny image of you, Keong and I running through KL lol

 

[treefrog]

There's civilisation in the Peak District?

Been stranded here enough times to confirm - there is.

http://theredlionlitton.co.uk/

 

[SouthernCross]

Lets not turn this into another Bear Grylls slating competition eh? After all, he was special forces and would do alot better than some fat bottomed kit junkie like Ray.

This brought a smile to my dial

Has ayone heard of a Martial artist called Bruce Lee?

He was once asked his opinion on the benefits of cross training for martial arts.

The essence of his response was that all training is good, but the best training for any event is to perform the event.

I have to agree. The best training for bushcraft is to get out and do it regularily.

IMO, everything else is really just a substitute.



Kind regards
Mick

 

[pango]

Originally Posted by pango ; lack of insulation and lower surface area/volume ratio.:

sorry but i couldn't disagree with you more , insulation has some input but not as much as a persons ability to adapt and control there own body temp (take Wim Hof for example)
i wear shorts and a t shirt near enough all year because thats what i feel comfortable in, down to about -5 or 6

Scientific fact, I'm afraid! And speaking as someone who has more than once escaped from various mountain environments by the skin of my teeth, good judgement and a portion of luck, while suitably dressed and equipped for the occasion, I'd say you have no such experience and are talking through your shorts, mate!

 

[Dark Horse Dave]

Lets not turn this into another Bear Grylls slating competition eh? After all, he was special forces and would do alot better than some fat bottomed kit junkie like Ray.

I know I shouldn't encourage this sort of thing, but it did make me laugh....

 

[1234]

Scientific fact, I'm afraid! And speaking as someone who has more than once escaped from various mountain environments by the skin of my teeth, good judgement and a portion of luck, while suitably dressed and equipped for the occasion, I'd say you have no such experience and are talking through your shorts, mate!

whether you choose to believe me or not is up to you
its my body and only I know how it feels
and no i don't have any experience of mountaineering, but i didn't mention any mountain so i dont really understand why your bringing it up

i suppose wim hof is "talking through his shorts" as well then

and before anyone says it, in no way am i comparing myself to the ice man, im just using him as an example because he's well documented

thought id help you out a bit
[video=youtube;madoDvtKEes]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=madoDvtKEes[/video]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=madoDvtKEes
look at the luketuna comment

 

[pango]

Sorry 1234, no you didn't mention any mountain.

But Mountaineering does involve encountering extreme, adverse weather conditions... like running as fast as you can with full kit along an Alpine ridge because there's a good chance of your being frazzled by the big black thing that's firing massive electrical charges in every direction, and is gaining on you at a disconcerting rate of Knots... or heat so intense you must find shelter, as you know the only water, other than the few litres you're carrying, is more than 20 miles and possibly a day or two away... or freezing wind which manages, whatever you do, to find its way into your clothing and introduce whatever rain, sleet, hail or snow it's carrying with it... or conditions forcing you to dig a hole in the snow in the hope that you'll outlast whatever drove you in there!

Try that in your underpants!

 

[1234]

1. its shorts
and
2. plain ignorance right there

 

[pango]

You're the one who voiced advice outwith your experience, 1234,
and
3. No sense of humour!

 

[lisa]

It seems to me that factors such as...

Are you just going for a run, from a nice warm house, back to a nice warm house OR have you been hauling a rucksack through wilderness for days without being able to get thoroughly warm or had good sleep or 3 decent meals a day? And in my experience arctic dry cold is easier to stay warm in then wet cold. For example, when leading folks in temps down well into the minus's, I am often down to one thin layer when active, such as hauling sleds or chopping wood (last thing you want is to build up sweat), but as soon as I have to stop, if I didn't have good warm layers and windproofs I would certainly go hypothermic very quickly. I also feel lack of calories very quickly in such environments...and notice that thinner people with high motabolisms also notice lack of calories quicker and therefore sometimes become colder, or sleep colder. This is noticeable even in Lake district UK weather. I think most ML's will keep an eye on the thin girl in the group, even if she is a tuffy