Regulating bushcraft

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Broch

Full Member
Jan 18, 2009
5,215
4,561
Mid Wales
Every farm has a midden. Be thankful that they always dump the rubbish in exactly the same place. I wouldn't ever align them with the crap-casters, tossing and scattering rubbish with every step.

The Neolithic people on the west coast of Canada have done this as well over 15,000 years. The shell middens (oyster/clam/mussel) contain 10s of thousands of cubic meters of shell.

I wish that was true. When I canoed a local river over two days a couple of years ago the banks were strewn with silage bale plastic. My onw wood has to be regularly 'litter picked' of the same stuff that the farmers just leave lying about and then gets blown everywhere.

No other industry would be allowed to get away with the mess left and dumped in the countryside.

farm plastic waste.jpg
 

Fadcode

Full Member
Feb 13, 2016
2,727
747
Cornwall
I don't think you have anything to worry about regarding the Govt licensing "Bushcraft", for the simple thing is that it would affect everyone, and no Govt would bring in something like that, you only have to look at the restrictions on Covid, they didn't affect everyone, and the Govt were willing to pay most peoples wages, so no loss of votes there, but if any party attemted to take away leisure activities that basically affected everyone, they would probably never get into power again.

In reality most Govts have no real interest in the countryside, the rural areas just cost Govt's money, they dont do anything for the economy, (I am not talking about Farmers here), you only have to look at the infrastructure in rural places, they are not usually worth the investment of building roads, etc, in Cornwall we have one main road which is a dual carriageway, the rest are narrow lanes, and despite it being a holiday destination for a few months of the year, the rest of the year its reasonably quiet.

The same on Exmoor, Dartmoor and many other areas of moorland throughout the country, they attract the crowds but not the investment, and that is another reason why "Bushcraft" would never be licensed, because if they did the Govt ( or licensing Authority, Quango) would have to take on the responsibility of making sure the areas would be fit for purpose, and that would be a lot more money that they would ever get from issuing licenses.

Regarding the litter situation which is abhorrent, the chance of being caught is obviously the reason it happens, and the onus lays with local councils, and unless they are willing to police the situation it will continue. Industrial fly tipping is now out of control, people making fortunes for waste clearance but not willing to pay the tip fees, so just dump it anywhere, the council are quite adept at giving out parking tickets, and collecting charges at car parks,speeding fines, but pay little heed to the important matters that affect us all.
(Rant over time for me tea)
 
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Erbswurst

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 5, 2018
3,085
1,208
Berlin
Would a farmer open his own illegal rubbish dump in Germany one of the next hikers who comes along surely would report him to the police.
 
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demographic

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 15, 2005
4,448
457
-------------
I wish that was true. When I canoed a local river over two days a couple of years ago the banks were strewn with silage bale plastic. My onw wood has to be regularly 'litter picked' of the same stuff that the farmers just leave lying about and then gets blown everywhere.

No other industry would be allowed to get away with the mess left and dumped in the countryside.

View attachment 65782
On Google Maps you can put photos up so when someone is searching locations it shows up.
Just saying like...
Oh and as for the legal part? This from Farmers Weekly.
"In 2006, the Waste Management Regulations banned the burning or burying of farm waste – including plastic and cardboard – meaning farmers have a legal duty to send waste off-farm, either to recycling or a landfill site."
 

TLM

Native
Nov 16, 2019
1,938
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Vantaa, Finland
"In 2006, the Waste Management Regulations banned the burning or burying of farm waste – including plastic and cardboard – meaning farmers have a legal duty to send waste off-farm, either to recycling or a landfill site."
Does anyone police it? Are there fines for not doing it?
 

Scottieoutdoors

Forager
Oct 22, 2020
202
119
Devon
I think like everything, exposure breeds popularity and advertisement, this attracts businesses who want to make some money, this brings more exposure, more exposure brings on more businesses with poorer brands, this brings on more exposure which drags in everyone and anyone in-between...
 

Spirit fish

Nomad
Aug 12, 2021
297
67
28
Doncaster
I live in hope that fashions will move on and we can see the end of the natural world being a place to be exploited by a bushcraft "industry".
my thoughts exactly I learned bushcr aft because I used to be broke and the skills give me a place to still have some worth pursue hobbies for free and even augment my diet occasionally I think the commercialisation of bushcr aft has removed its real essence the beauty is anyone can practise bushcr aft from homeless to rich
 

Bee Outdoors

Full Member
Aug 10, 2019
36
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Manchester
I have always thought that the ones doing the damage are not outdoorsmen and woman just people that the media portray as such, it’s much easier to brand someone that kit fires destroyed a area as outdoorsman, wild campers or bushcrafters.
behind the term bushcraft is a whole community of people that practice a set of skills and ethos but fir people that don’t understand the difference it’s far to easy to associate us with the minority that have no ethos or interest in the skills. So that makes me draw a conclusion that it is education rather than more regulations needed.
I have always thought that the ones doing the damage are not outdoorsmen and woman just people that the media portray as such, it’s much easier to brand someone that kit fires destroyed a area as outdoorsman, wild campers or bushcrafters.
behind the term bushcraft is a whole community of people that practice a set of skills and ethos but fir people that don’t understand the difference it’s far to easy to associate us with the minority that have no ethos or interest in the skills. So that makes me draw a conclusion that it is education rather than more regulations needed.
Well said
 

CLEM

Full Member
Jul 10, 2004
2,325
347
Stourbridge
There are more than enough regulations and rules ( too many ) as is, so much so I’am beginning to not recognise my country anymore. No thanks don’t give the maniacs any more ideas.
 

Robson Valley

Full Member
Nov 24, 2014
9,355
2,134
McBride, BC
As of just this week past, there is now a recycler of agricultural plastics here in the valley. Brought about principally by the constant pressures and activities of the region's farmers and ranchers.

Despite the enormity of the British Columbia landscape, wilderness campsite reservations have been the norm for many years. Each might have 6-12 flattened tent sites with steel fire rings, possibly some blow-down fire wood and a pit toilet (byo Bog roll).

The same applies to several magnificent walking tracks. You need to make reservations, sometimes more than a year in advance AND get fit.

1. The Berg Lake Trail up near Mt Robson. Totally blown this year away by spring flash floods and rock slides. The bridges got blasted out, the camp grounds are under water. Closed. Going to cost a bundle to even make the thing safe.

2. The Bowron Lakes Loop. A canoe trip in a circle, only so many boats per day allowed on the water. Don't diddle around, the parking lot is filling up behind you. I've bird-hunted and fished the Bowron Valley for 50 years. Dozens and dozens of cool spots with running water to pull off and cool your heels for a few daysand nights. Bad, bad bears in there. Remember that a sprinting Grizz can catch a galloping horse. Crazy, crazy wind surfing owls over the top edges of your windshield.

3. The West Coast Trail (70 km?) On the outer west coast of Vancouver Island. Originally meant as an escape for shipwrecked sailors. This thing will reduce you to tears in a week of wet weather. Good weather and you will face a dream landscape, day after day. Bragging Rights. These are the Nuu Cha Nulth people, share their respect for the land.

Every step you take in the wilderness compresses the ground. Fact. That crushes the air out of the soil. Fact. Root systems and many small invertebrates depended upon that air, that oxygen, now it is gone and they all die. That's why dead barren pathways are so obvious in an otherwise lush landscape. Once dead, you might as well stick to the paths. Although the incidence of ticks is more prevalent, I stay on the game trails and rarely cut my own track.
 

Robson Valley

Full Member
Nov 24, 2014
9,355
2,134
McBride, BC
I've done decades of grouse hunting in the Bowron River valley, some 70 km east of the BC city of Prince George. No sense in leaving until shooting light is gone.
Three times now, on the drive out (north 30km to HWY 16), I have caught a flicker of motion above my head. Hugging the steering wheel, lookung up, there's a Great Horned Owl (read very BIG) floating in the slipstream over the top edge of my windshield.
Maybe for 1-2 km, long enough to get a good look. On a switchback mountain logging road, I'm too busy driving to take pictures in such bad light.
 
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Spirit fish

Nomad
Aug 12, 2021
297
67
28
Doncaster
There are more than enough regulations and rules ( too many ) as is, so much so I’am beginning to not recognise my country anymore. No thanks don’t give the maniacs any more ideas.
If bushcr aft got regulated not only would it be ridiculous bureaucratic nonsense , it's unenforceable if someone asked me for a bushcraft licence in the middle of nowhere with no police to back then up there very brave men just my 2 cents
 
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Wayne

BCUK Welfare Officer
Mod
Dec 7, 2003
3,509
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West Sussex
www.forestknights.co.uk
I find this discussion very depressing. Having run a mildly successful Bushcraft school for almost 20 years it’s some what annoying that my interpretaction of bushcraft is put into question and that I need some external validation.

I have been running courses in my main woodland site since I founded forestknights. Last year we had an extensive environmental audit done. 14 UK Bat species were detected in our woodland. Dormice nest in our Hazel. In all my time teaching I have had 1 direct to hospital casualty. A young man that completed ignored the instructors guidance.

We operate some of the highest staff to client ratios within the industry. So why do I need someone from the IOL or The worshipful guild of bushcraft instructors telling me that the way I teach a knife skills session is incorrect?

The day I am forced to join a institution of Bushcraft Instructors to practice is the day I will close Forestknights and do something else.
 

Broch

Full Member
Jan 18, 2009
5,215
4,561
Mid Wales
I find this discussion very depressing. Having run a mildly successful Bushcraft school for almost 20 years it’s some what annoying that my interpretaction of bushcraft is put into question and that I need some external validation.

I have been running courses in my main woodland site since I founded forestknights. Last year we had an extensive environmental audit done. 14 UK Bat species were detected in our woodland. Dormice nest in our Hazel. In all my time teaching I have had 1 direct to hospital casualty. A young man that completed ignored the instructors guidance.

We operate some of the highest staff to client ratios within the industry. So why do I need someone from the IOL or The worshipful guild of bushcraft instructors telling me that the way I teach a knife skills session is incorrect?

The day I am forced to join a institution of Bushcraft Instructors to practice is the day I will close Forestknights and do something else.

Don't worry Wayne; it will never happen. No-one can agree what 'bushcraft' is, so how can you regulate it. If they start trying to, just say Forest Knights teaches 'wilderness living' :)
 
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Scottieoutdoors

Forager
Oct 22, 2020
202
119
Devon
If bushcr aft got regulated not only would it be ridiculous bureaucratic nonsense , it's unenforceable if someone asked me for a bushcraft licence in the middle of nowhere with no police to back then up there very brave men just my 2 cents

What's with your "bushcr aft" thing? Everytime you've written it, it's like that? Is it deliberate or is your autocorrect stuck? Haha
 

CLEM

Full Member
Jul 10, 2004
2,325
347
Stourbridge
What annoys the stinky stuff out of me is just how many folk seemingly wish to surrender more and more of there rights to our overlords and the maniacs who run the show. I just cannot get my Swede around that way of being at all. I’am a free man, I shall decide what I do and how I live, I will never ask my lessers for permission.
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
36,762
2,676
S. Lanarkshire
I think scared people make more and more rules. People who don't 'do' stuff in reality try to categorise and define and end up limiting access for those of us who do.

I genuinely believe that some solid foundation of the reality of the world around us, the seasonality, the fragility of the interconnected ecosystems, how it changes, and how it can recover, ought to be a core part of basic school education.

Why ? because too many folks don't know it now. Too many folks catch onto something like a cause and promote that element to the degradation of everything else.
Don't carry a knife, don't light a fire, don't cut down anything, don't ......

The natural world is so intricately interwoven that modern society's predations upon it now are totally out of step with any place we have in it.
We know that, and we're careful and thinking as we go about things, and I know that that's most definitely not true for everyone.

Thing is though, and this matters, humans belong in the natural world. We're not some zoo animal to be kept in a glass and steel ring fenced habitat.

But society, instead of showing, teaching, explaining, experiencing and working at it, just slaps the necessity for guidelines/rules/restrictions/ upon everyone.....and then social opprobium of the idiotic piles on.....in the years since I joined, I have gone from happily going for a wander with my knife to virtually skulking around when I'm out past my own gate.....and even there it's not fine. I was working in the garden and a delivery man arrived. He looked at the knife in my hand and almost crept away :rolleyes: I'm a housewife, making a basket, in my own garden, heaven knows how the big lads who like a quiet weekend out get looked at !

I'm fed up with it. It's a tool, they are tools, even fire is a tool, learn how to use them properly and appropriately, practice the skills, use the skills, but it's getting to the stage now that I'll need a certificate to prove I've fulfilled some numpties (sorry, carefully researched by committee costing millions) idea of exactly how and what and where I ought to know and use lifelong skills.

Sorry. :redface: :bluethinking: Rant over.

M
 

Broch

Full Member
Jan 18, 2009
5,215
4,561
Mid Wales
Thing is though, and this matters, humans belong in the natural world. We're not some zoo animal to be kept in a glass and steel ring fenced habitat.

I agree with your sentiment, but is that really true in Britain? People who really knew nature and worked with it were in a minority before the Bronze Age (according to some :)). Ever since we adopted farming more people have been tied to the plough than the bow (and then, later, industry and manufacturing). I appreciate that early farmers had to understand and work with the cycles of nature, but I suspect the knowledge of the wild became rare quite quickly.

I agree that people ought to be taught and understand the impact of their footprint, but I have little faith in mankind, and don't believe the majority will care. No, man should only be let out of the cage when they can demonstrate they can do so without harming the fragile world :) (tongue in cheek!).
 

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