Bushcraft/survival fitness and conditioning

[jungle_re]

The importance of physcial fitness and health on the effectiveness of ones ability to survive is fairly well documented. Physical conditioning certainly plays a hefty part on lots of bushcraft tasks. I'm an active sort between walking, canoing and gardening but after being out of the forces for over 5 years now i'm more than overweight; something that i'm currently sorting. This has led me to think about physical preperation for bushcraft/survival and conditioning while i have been sorting and adjusting training schedules. I'd be intrested to hear about individuals who specifically do phizz to aid bushcraft conditioning techniques etc and also what people consider as good practice?

For example: often sited when disscussion about knives arises is the statement about blisters and hot spots - now personally i think this often has lots to do with conditon (or lack of it) than design. A person who works in an office is going to have far more delicate hands than one that lays bricks for a living and is therfore going to be far more prone to any blisters or red spots as his hands arnt used to working and arnt harden to handtool use. In this case is there miliage in doing anything to increase his robustness?

I know that Stuart from experiences tries to practice hand drill once a day to maintain the hard skin to prevent blisters forming when the technique is needed.

Im intrested in hearing people views

 

[jackcbr]

I agree, conditioning is something to consider with bushcraft. Just wish I good get into better shape. I try to harden my self off to colder conditions so to be more comfortable when going camping. But I do also believe that selecting the right gear also has its part to play. I have, in the past bought the cheapest bits of kit and clothing because I have a limited budget. But have ended up having to shell out on better stuff later. Also being left handed means choosing some tools can be awkward.

They do say practice makes perfect, so maybe a daily workout with a hand drill has more benefits than just hardening off the hands.

 

[superc0ntra]

20 lbs of extra fat means a couple of extra days alive. As long as the stamina and strength is there.

 

[jungle_re]

20 lbs of extra fat means a couple of extra days alive. As long as the stamina and strength is there.

Body fat level is quite often not a good indicator of fitness at all. However carrying large amounts of excess weight is going to make you less efficient as you will burn more calories in everything you do. Personnelly my weight is in direct proportion to my drop of fitness and although active what i do (did do) only maintains that level and is/was not enough to improve it.


Fit in body fit in mind the more efficient your body is and the less stress a given task puts on it then the clearer the mind imo. When your exhauted, tired and muscles ache then the mid is often at the point where which it will make poor decisions


The other side is its never quite as fun doing things when your absolutely hanging out of your ****

 

[Andy BB]

Interesting!

Are we talking bushcraft or survival here? ie - Ray Mears or Blair Grylls?

No one is going to argue that the fitter you are is not a positive. (although 20lbs of excess fat is an awful lot of energy your body can convert in extremis - thats why animals put as much fat on as possible before winter, after all!). And a layer of blubber will fight off hypothermia for a lot longer than skin and muscle alone.

If you're going to shoot rapids in ice-cold rivers, leap from trees and trek across deserts a la BG, then fitness is mandatory if you're going to survive. But in most survival situations you're better to hole up, build a shelter, find water and wait for rescue - conserving energy is better than wasting it. And its then that being able to think smart is better than working hard. Which is where bushcrafting knowledge comes in.........

 

[Toddy]

I take your point about using ones hands daily, but I disagree with the results with some tools.
This past month I've been laying slabs and bricks on a pretty much daily basis, I sew, spin, weave, prep food, garden, clean and make stuff daily too. My hands are busy and it's not all light work, but I still break out in hot spots and blisters with a badly fitting tool handle or gloves with seams in the wrong place. (why the hang do most gardening gloves have pinkies that are so short the seam rubs on the knuckle ? )

As for the excess weight......I think most of us carry more than we need. Our very modern lives make it easy to acquire food and very few of us work physically actively enough day in day out to burn off back to lean-ness. I know I certainly don't.
It think we'll only manage a nationwide change when we start thinking that child sized portions are an ample sufficiency, and I can't see that happening any time soon.

cheers,
M

 

[jungle_re]

Interesting!

Are we talking bushcraft or survival here? ie - Ray Mears or Blair Grylls?

I dont see bushcraft and survival as seperate entities there is too high an overlap. Too me BG isnt survival (too many risk) but televison entertainment.
Fat % is one thing to look at and the relative benifit to the hindress in differnt climates and the knock on effect on enegry intake to carry it. Another good point raised was the bodys ability to control its temperature again plus or minus points for excess insulation and also a conditioning element in adapting and aclimatising to cold/heat/humidity.

As for the excess weight......I think most of us carry more than we need. Our very modern lives make it easy to acquire food and very few of us work physically actively enough day in day out to burn off back to lean-ness. I know I certainly don't.
It think we'll only manage a nationwide change when we start thinking that child sized portions are an ample sufficiency, and I can't see that happening any time soon.

Im agreement - my fat level was low due to the amount of physical exercise i was involved with not from diet - Army life and playing semi-pro rugby kept me at a high level of fitness and in good shape. This is a conditioning process too though isnt it, when the high level of physical activity stoped i still consumed the same amounts of fuel becouse its what i was used too. Only recently have i changed to trying to match what i eat with a training regime

I take onboard what you say about illfitting tools and my statement was a generalisation but still hold out that in lots of cases the tool maker gets it in the neck for poor design when conditioning has played a strong part. No matter what the tool design hard work is still hard work and that take its effects on the body - a well designed tool will undoutably make the work easier but not extinguish the work level

 

[xylaria]

When I did rowing competitively it was fashionable to wash your hands in meths or white spirit to harden up the skin. I found wood ash does a better job and leaves the skin a soft as sandpaper.

Hyperdistance swimmers and some rugby players usually have a high body fat level but unlike unfit people the body fat is equally distributed in the outer layers and not around the organs. Having a beer gut I presume is like been heavly pregnant, and is like carrying an extra rucksack of nearly useless gear. There is a big difference in fit fat and the unfit organ fat of beer guts.

I try and keep myself fit enough to walk 30 miles, or swim 1 mile, as that will get you out of most trouble in england. That will get me home during a transport failure, or to civilisation in the peak district.

 

[stardust]

This is very interesting to me, as I used to be incredibly fit and active. Every day of my life involved vast amounts of exercise. And then I got ill, (with M.E.) and haven't exercised in about a year and a half. I have put on loads of weight and can't walk more than a quarter of a mile on a good day, yet I still participate in bushcraft as much as I can, (sleeping outdoors and living round a campfire) and still rate my chances of survival as quite high due to knowledge and experience from before I got ill.

Though it has occurred to me that in a genuine survival situation I would always be the slowest, so the most valuable thing I can do whilst out of action is to arm myself with knowledge. I am working on the theory that if the apocalypse comes I will be too useful to eat.

 

[pango]

Interesting!

Are we talking bushcraft or survival here? ie - Ray Mears or Blair Grylls?

Fair point! But look at the difference in fitness/height-weight between the two and given an equal skills-base, which would survive longest in adverse conditions.
Might it be that in hot, arid conditions Bare Gyrls would outlast Ray Mears, and that RM would outlast Bare Gyrls in a sub-zero environment?

On the face of things I'd say that Bare Gyrls is fitter than RM (although I wouldn't kiss him... but I wouldn't want to kiss RM either... as he practices Judo) and providing Bare doesn't break his back whilst launching himself from into a 3 foot dry wadi, which he could have walked round, in his haste to survive, I'd say he had an advantage over RM in these conditions.

In Arctic conditions, however, I'd be pretty sure that RM's stature would serve him to good advantage and that Bare, abseiling from frozen Hershey Bars and carrion-camping aside, would succumb to the cold due to his higher metabolism, lack of insulation and lower surface area/volume ratio.

In reality though, we know that Bare Gyrls would simply retire to his hotel room by helicopter, so remaining aloof to such trivial speculation.

As for me, I'm just bored and am off to my woodland shortly to light a fire and drum-up!

 

[FerlasDave]

Lets not turn this into another Bear Grylls slating competition eh? After all, he was special forces and would do alot better than some fat bottomed kit junkie like Ray.

 

[jackcbr]

I try and keep myself fit enough to walk 30 miles, or swim 1 mile, as that will get you out of most trouble in england. That will get me home during a transport failure, or to civilisation in the peak district.

There's civilisation in the Peak District?

 

[wentworth]

I think ultimately everyone knows the benefits of being fit and lean. Noone could honestly say "I'm out of shape for survival purposes".
Regarding tools, I have sizable calluses on my hands, but I still get blisters from using poorly designed knife handles. Sometimes a bad design is just a bad design.

 

[jungle_re]

missed the point slightly. Fitness has many forms. You wouldnt for example train on heavy weights if you were a marathon runner.

How long does it take you to feel tired felling with an axe? is that something that you think practice and excersing certain muscles would improve? what would you consider a good physical condition to be most efficient etc.

Fi i like your idea of being able to walk 30 miles and swim a mile - thats the sort of thing i was trying to get at.

 

[TeeDee]

Maybe easier to spin it on its head.

Your 100% right about the individual needing to be fit the activity.
Sumo Wrestlers as an example are not considered by the western mind to be "fit" , however they are FIT for their sport.

What things would you say are the requirements of your definition of Bushcraft/wilderness skills/survival?

As an example 100 m sprinter only ever trains in a pure anaerobic or AT threshold , they don't need to produce an aerobic perfomance during a race so why train for it.

What components of bushcraft/survival would you say are;-

Cardio Vascular
Muscular endurance
Anaerobic effort

Your point about swinging an axe is good , its cardio and local muscular conditioning but not all out strength work.



EDIT Link to Body fat percentages http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_fat_percentage

missed the point slightly. Fitness has many forms. You wouldnt for example train on heavy weights if you were a marathon runner.

How long does it take you to feel tired felling with an axe? is that something that you think practice and excersing certain muscles would improve? what would you consider a good physical condition to be most efficient etc.

Fi i like your idea of being able to walk 30 miles and swim a mile - thats the sort of thing i was trying to get at.

 

[wentworth]

No, i didn't miss the point. I was responding to the idea that being 20lb overweight was a bonus in certain situations.
I'm a P.T, so I train hill sprints and lift weights with compound exercises around 3 times a week. None of this is specific to bushcraft. But when on an extended walk (10 or more hrs walking a day, for 3+ days) I find that it helps.

The only specific training I do for outdoor stuff is pack walks. A few weeks before a big trip I do a few 30kg pack walks, as well as barefoot walking to toughen up the feet (not at the same time!)

I don't personally see a need to prepare for bushcraft, as I find it the most effortless part of my trips (camp crafts).

For survival, I think being fit enough to survive is more about being fit enough for life in general.

 

[1234]

this is a very interesting subject to bring up
most of what people are saying is personal and what may be right for them wont fit everyone else's needs, everyone is different
personally i think that the bare minimum physically to survive would be to be able to hold your own body weight (in various positions) and be able to walk/hike for 5-6 hours a day everyday if needs be. but this isn't taking into account what your body can do in real survival situations i.e. when adrenaline has kicked in
but all of this is useless unless you have the right mind set, problem solving skills and some basic knowledge

as for the blister bit, fit has something to do with it and also common sense comes into play, if you feel a blister coming on and its not a life or death situation, stop and attend to the blisters (the area of skin will soon harden off) or you could do what i do, just htfu and get on with it (i do have quite a hight pain threshold though)

lack of insulation and lower surface area/volume ratio.

sorry but i couldn't disagree with you more, insulation has some input but not as much as a persons ability to adapt and control there own body temp (take Wim Hof for example)
i wear shorts and a t shirt near enough all year because thats what i feel comfortable in, down to about -5 or 6 (as long as im not sat still) last winter when it was snowing quite heavy i was jogging every other day in a wind jacket, t shirt, shorts, hat and gloves and i was perfectly fine, i had one cold last year, what im trying to say is its down to the individual

 

[TeeDee]

1234 , Out of interest would you say you have 'always' felt comfortable in shorts + tee and so was not a conscious choice to just wear that , or has it been a more conscious effort to acclimitize to a constant lower temp and bit of body tempering over time?

 

[1234]

i would say it was unconscious
since i haven't had to dress a certain way that is (parents buying you clothes as a kid, uniforms, work clothes etc)
the first winter it didn't even cross my mind, it just seemed like the right thing to do, no one wants to feel uncomfortable right
i was born in december if that contributes to it (i've been told it might)

quick edit: thought i might explain the comfort bit
personally i dont like it when clothes stick to me, wether it be through sweat, static (from hairs) or just the shape of the clothes
i prefer air on my skin and i prefer the cold so shorts and t just work
hope im making sences

 

[jungle_re]

Lewis Pugh comes to mind with conditioning this man has really pushed the boundaries on cold water/weather.

As for fitness or conditioning for bushcraft then hes a few starter for 10s for disscussion

Be able to lift your own body weight
Be a strong swimmer (power rather than speed)
Be able to carry 7 day supplies on your back and walk 20 miles with it
Be able to climb a 20m V diff with relatice ease
Be able to saw through a 12" dia log without stopping and do it 4 times back to back (this is the amount of wood we needed for one nights shelter when in Alberta with Mors)
Split a chord of fire wood with an axe without undue physical effects
Be able to complete a simple suduko puzzle after have only 2 hours sleep for 5 days
Be flexible to touch your toes
Be able to summit a 1000m mountain (walkable in summer) in summer and winter
Be able to jump a 3m gap
Be able to climb a 10m rope
Be able to hold your breath for a 1min