Bushcraft licence to and from the Moot to a place of Residence !

[the interceptor boy]

Hi Tony.
I was wondering if by time we have a legitimate Bushcraft licence for carrying scary sharp cutting tools to and from the moot. Due to the climate we are living in. With all the atrocities going on in the UK and abroad. More so this applies if one is not a Caucasian C1. As I have brown skin and have brown eyes. I could be misconstrued as a baddy.or A Terror--t. As I fit the generic profile. As long as I grow a beard.!
As you all know that cutting tools cost a lot of money.
Several bushcraft knives of any kind. Carving knives. Chisels. Draw knives. Machetes. Parangs. Axes. Shovels. Arrows. All mounts up over £ thousand of pounds. What answer do I give to the long arm of the law on the Motorway if I am stopped for any unknown reason.
I would appreciate any thoughts on this matter.

The interceptor boy.

 

[bopdude]

Tell them the reason for carrying and your destination, and also to this thread if it needs to go that far

 

[Nomad64]

What answer do I give to the long arm of the law on the Motorway if I am stopped for any unknown reason.
I would appreciate any thoughts on this matter.

It is only illegal to carry such items in public if you cannot show a sensible reason for having them. The (non-exhaustive) list of good reasons for having knives or other weapons about you on the UK Govt website specifically includes historical reenactments and teaching which is not a million miles away from what goes on at a bushcraft get together.

https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

Something along the lines of;

"Officer, the reason that I have a number of knives and other potentially dangerous items in the boot of my car is that I am on my way to/from a Bushcraft meeting where I will/have been participating in displays and demonstrations of bushcraft techniques involving such items - here is a copy of my ticket"

should do the trick.

After all most of the items on your list are available with the initials of the Chief Scout on them in lurid orange.

 

[Janne]

Just do not give them a reason to stop you and your car.

I do not think anybody is profiled as a potential terror-ist because they have a brown skin, eyes, not even that combo WITh a beard.
Profiling is a bit more complex than that.

If I was a police officer and stopped a car ( speeding, erratic driving and so on) and discovered a person with a boot full of bladed implements I would not be satisfied with the answer that he/she was going for a stroll on a footpath...
Specially if I saw machetes, parangs and other exotics!

But then I am not a Police Officer..

Bushcraft License?
As long as it does not require flint knapping, Steel&flint firemaking and foraging for eatable roots and road kill cooking I am ok with that!

 

[mrcharly]

Pack them away so they are not 'easily accessible'. Bottom of a rucksack or similar.
Take a ticket or print off a message acknowledging your invite to event if you have one. Keep this on your person.

 

[Janne]

Has anybody on this Forum ever had an issue with Police not liking a bladed tool / sharp implement carried on person, pack or vehicle?

I feel the OP is creating a non existing issue, plus mixing in ethnic non problems?

 

[Corso]

I usually carry mine in a lockable airsoft pistol/rifle case - airsoft ones are pretty cheap and demonstrate quite clearly that they can't be got at easily

a legitimate Bushcraft licence for carrying scary sharp cutting tools would need legislation which is expensive and we are a very small subculture

 

[Jared]

Having a ticket should be enough to prove good reason.

 

[Monikieman]

Think of them as your tools and yourself as a tradesman. That's you're reasonable excuse. Have them double wrapped and inaccessible helps too.

 

[the interceptor boy]

Has anybody on this Forum ever had an issue with Police not liking a bladed tool / sharp implement carried on person, pack or vehicle?

I feel the OP is creating a non existing issue, plus mixing in ethnic non problems?
Last edited by Janne; Today at 16:20

How do you know that I am creating a non existing issue. Mixing in ethnic non problems. Have you walk into my shoes lately in London. . I am not mixing anything. I am from an ethnic background and are a bit afraid if I am stop by the police to give them a satisfactorily answer why I have so many blades in my car. Thats all. .if we have to pay for a licence to enjoy. Bushcraft as a hobby. So be it.
The interceptor boy.

 

[Mike313]

Has anybody on this Forum ever had an issue with Police not liking a bladed tool / sharp implement carried on person, pack or vehicle?

I feel the OP is creating a non existing issue, plus mixing in ethnic non problems?
Last edited by Janne; Today at 16:20

How do you know that I am creating a non existing issue. Mixing in ethnic non problems. Have you walk into my shoes lately in London. . I am not mixing anything. I am from an ethnic background and are a bit afraid if I am stop by the police to give them a satisfactorily answer why I have so many blades in my car. Thats all. .if we have to pay for a licence to enjoy. Bushcraft as a hobby. So be it.
The interceptor boy.

Your question is a valid one, especially as you imply you live in London. And especially after these recent knife attacks. I don't know the answer to your question, but I know from personal experience that if you are brown- or black-skinned you are more likely to be stopped by the police. I lived in south London for years (Elephant & Castle, Kennington, Brixton, Streatham, Herne Hill, Camberwell) and, especially being a bit of a night-owl, saw how stop & search etc was applied in a less-than-fair-handed way.

I might be inclined to take a pro-active approach and contact my local police well in advance and tell them you are going to the Moot and will be carrying various sharp tools with you. Do this in writing, maybe by e-mail, and try get a reply. Then (assuming the reply says it's OK) print that out and take it with you.

 

[FGYT]

No bit of paper issued by Tony will be recognised by any police he is not authorised by the government to print knife carry licences.
A proof of paid entry ticket would and should be accepted as good reason when travelling to and from the venue tho under pressure some forces may have a policy to take away the cop on the ground right to make a decision there and them insisting it's brought in for a judge to decide regardless .
However you need to be pulled over first

 

[hughlle1]

Have you ever had any reason to need to prove to the police, and been unable to. You can be as paranoid as you like but the law seems to work just fine for those who follow it. The police are not out to get you, no matter what the daily mail or paranoia suggests. It is not difficult to give good reason for having such a knife in your bag, ticket to bushmoot or not. I fully agree with the notion of creating an issue where one doesn't exist. If this is purely due to skin colour, then where would the regulation stop? By suggesting a license because of your race etc, then I think that it would be far more detrimental than beneficial. Next it will be people with badges to indicate religion so the police can profile based on that as well.

My stance, the laws are daft enough as they are. We should be able to carry a locking knife without valid reason. London knife crime suggests that such regulation has achieved nothing.

 

[Janne]

Has anybody on this Forum ever had an issue with Police not liking a bladed tool / sharp implement carried on person, pack or vehicle?

I feel the OP is creating a non existing issue, plus mixing in ethnic non problems?
Last edited by Janne; Today at 16:20

How do you know that I am creating a non existing issue. Mixing in ethnic non problems. Have you walk into my shoes lately in London. . I am not mixing anything. I am from an ethnic background and are a bit afraid if I am stop by the police to give them a satisfactorily answer why I have so many blades in my car. Thats all. .if we have to pay for a licence to enjoy. Bushcraft as a hobby. So be it.
The interceptor boy.

I do not think we really want the Authorities to start even thinking of issuing permits and Licenses for our hobby. Because then they can start controlling us. Plus an increasing cost.
Do you want that?

So how many people with non European ethnicity have been stopped by Police the last months? The media that would report this has not mentioned any?

I live in the Caribbean. British island. Plenty of different hues of skin here. Please do not start doing the US style ethnic BS. Please!

As most say: Do not flash your sharp tools. Hide them. Problem over.

The Police are not idiots. If they see your backpack and other outdoor stuff, they know what you are up to.

If you have a 'Wilderness Permit' will that give you the right to carry those tools you mention in your first post? How many, one? Fifteen?
Will you be happy for them to decide how many? IF ANY OUTSIDE THE BRITISH LEGAL CARRY????

Do you want the authorities to decide what you should carry, and how many?

PS: I am too from an Ethnic background. I get enough crap about it in Miami, thank you very much.

I am German-Austrian-Czech-Hungarian. So pretty mixed! Mixed in body and brain!

 

[C_Claycomb]

Hi there,

I think most of the advice here is good. A license is a very bad idea if you think it through; could only be issued by government anyway.

Yes, I know of someone on here who was pulled over on the motorway while on their way to a canoeing/camping weekend, had their car searched and got a lot of hassle from the officer, but all it was was hassle. Dug out a Kellam knife and a little axe and made a big deal about them, trying to provoke a response. The guy had pulled them over on pretty thin reasoning and didn't want to lose face by not finding something. Despite that, they kept all their gear and were eventually let on their way.

The odds though are that you will not get pulled over while driving. If you do, and you have a ton of camping gear and a printed ticket, you have all the reason you need. I imagine that if your sharp gear was visible and you stopped in a service area, you would be about as likely as anyone else to have police ask about it. I think that the range of tools you list actually works to your advantage.

 

[mrcharly]

I disagree with the idea of contacting the police before travelling.

Firstly, it creates the idea that taking tools to a bushcrafting weekend is something special requiring special permission. It is not, any more than a workman taking tools to a place of work.

Secondly, notifying a local police station will have no influence on a police stop by a random officer in a different area. There is no magic communication between the areas and highly unlikely that you would be able to get some sort of documentation from your local police station to say you were ok to travel. Frankly, they have enough workload to cope with anyway.

Just pack your tools away securely out of sight (you'd want to do that anyway, to deter theft). Drive safely within the law if you are driving and if you do ever get stopped, be friendly and sympathetic to the police, it really works, they don't have an easy job.
I could tell you stories on that subject (I was stopped for speeding once, talked my way out of it, the officer was nearly in tears at one point, turned out he'd had to attend a fatality at the point where he thought I was speeding, little girl he knew smeared over the road).

 

[Hammock_man]

I concur with not informing the Police beforehand. I can see no good coming of it, I am in no way having a go at the police but they can not hand out "safe passage" chits. Keep copy of ticket, at least, on you; pack sharps well away and go on your lawful way.

 

[Nomad64]

Carrying sharps to a bushcraft meeting is slightly different from a chef taking his tools to work in that it is for recreational use rather than to earn a living but IMHO is well within both the letter, spirit of both the law and the official guidance that I posted earlier - a bit like a Sealed Knot reanactor taking his kit to a get together.

Although a minority activity, bushcrafters such as Mears and Grylls and events such as the Bushmoot and Bushcraft Show are sufficiently mainstream that it is highly unlikely that any police officer stopping you would be unfamiliar with the concept.

I can't walk in the OPs shoes (but although I am of an age and pigmentation that would not make me an obvious suspect in the current troubles, I have had "interesting" conversations with UK border security because of stamps in my passport) and genuinely feel for him if reactions to his race or religion is causing him concerns at the moment.

That said, unless the OP has anything in his background that could start hares running and/or could not trust himself to deal courteously (along the lines suggested in my earlier post) with a police officer who pulls him over for any reason, however unjust, then just follow the advice previously given, lock items out of sight and keep tickets, bushcraft books etc with you and perhaps if you are being ultra cautious keep camo gear to a minimum.

I very much doubt whether a local police officer would be prepared to provide any kind of "pass" and the most obvious reason not to ask for what amounts to "permission" to carry sharps to the Moot is what does he do if the officer advises you that they don't think it is a good idea.

 

[Corso]

https://www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives

[h=2]Good reasons for carrying a knife or weapon[/h]Examples of good reasons to carry a knife or weapon in public can include:

• taking knives you use at work to and from work
• taking it to a gallery or museum to be exhibited
• if it’ll be used for theatre, film, television, historical reenactment or religious purposes, for example the kirpan some Sikhs carry
• if it’ll be used in a demonstration or to teach someone how to use it

 

[Toddy]

Pack your kit carefully, do not leave knives or axes at hand, but packed in your kit.
Print out your ticket and put it in the pack.
Relax, you're going on holiday, drive to the Moot site.

If, and it's a tiny if, you are stopped for some reason or other no reason they should as far as I know, just answer the questions they ask.
If asked if you are carrying weapons in your car, the answer is no, but you are carrying tools…knives and axe, and saw, since you're going to a bushcraft meet up.

Perfectly valid reason to carry packed tools.

If one of them gets daft and tries to issue a caution, refuse to take it. That's a permanent thing, it gives you a record, and while it seems so innocuous, it's something you don't want, don't warrant, don't deserve to have attached to you.

I hope you have an easy trip to and from, and that the Moot is excellent

M