Who was the genius who conned us into believing we need a fixed blade knife for bushcraft?

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So how does one explain the Leuku and Puukko combination ?

Where Sami people used to (and still do) roam is mostly above the tree line where the biggest "trees" are of this size:
1830038_USA2Y.jpg

So no need for an axe for preparing firewood, a leuku is big enough. And leuku is like the khukri; a tool for all sorts of chores. Andthen the puukko for finer tasks.
Thanks for that! I thought that might be the case but I wasn't sure. And you made my point exactly!

Gracie
 
My understanding is as H30 said, I have seen many reindeer herders to actually carry three knives, the big one, one about 15cm and the smallest one about 8-9cm. Those carried on person, I suspect that a smallish axe might be carried in reindeer ahkio or nowadays in snowmobile. The knives are quite enough though for the fell birch environment.
 
So how does one explain the Leuku and Puukko combination ? Are they larping?

Sorry - slightly devils advocate and I'm genuinely interested in why they don't use Hatchets and why you think the reason is that they don't use them?
I was under the impression from what I’ve read, that the Sami traditionally used these (Leukus) in areas where there was only really stunted birch, to herd their reindeer. In that scenario, they’re well up to the job
 
What’s the betting that more than one or two have a battery operated chain saw in the pulk behind the ski-doo? (and a generator in the lavvu)
 
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Where Sami people used to (and still do) roam is mostly above the tree line where the biggest "trees" are of this size:
1830038_USA2Y.jpg

So no need for an axe for preparing firewood, a leuku is big enough. And leuku is like the khukri; a tool for all sorts of chores. Andthen the puukko for finer tasks.


The Taiga is described however as Forest - which I agree the above isn't - which makes me wonder how much time is spent IN the forest and if they actually keep axes and hatchets also.
 
Well, this I do know; in the summertime reindeer spend their time up high in the fell and wintertime they go to the lower grounds where they have easier to find food. Snow crust up in the fells can be hard as ice.
 
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Ive only just come across this thread and I have to say , Well HG , you have certainly opened Pandoras Box !
Whether intentional for your own entertainment value or not only you know the answer and whilst I agree with some of your points , I certainly do not think whatever bushcraft implements any one person carries is either better or worse to what you call " A one tool option , fixed blade knife " ! Your original title of people being conned into believing we need a fixed blade knife for bushcraft is too big a statement to make across the planet as its a kind of horses for courses scenario depending what type of survival / bushcraft environment anyone finds themselves in , There are indigenous peoples across the world whose very lives depend on hunting food and living in extreme conditions who may not have the means of purchasing the latest overpriced bushcraft knives and so do what their forefathers did before them and utilise whatever is in their indigenous environment to make their own weapons and tools . Then you have the next step up where farmers and land workers across the world may have slightly better access to tools , steel and the knowledge to actually make their own implements ( the kamis / blacksmiths from Nepal are a classic example using knowledge and improvisation to fashion some very well made khukuri knives ) . Then you have a massive bushcraft community in almost every country whose pleasure is going out into the rural environmrnts to practice bushcraft / survival skills which they have watched on TV or actually have participated in paid for bushcraft instruction courses and these I think are the people you are aiming your point of view at . I personally dont think there is such a thing as a one knife or tool for all jobs , once again depending on what natural environment you find yourself in ie Desert , jungle , arctic .mountainess
Hopefully I am getting over what Im trying to say . On a personal basis if I were going into any bushcraft survival environment I would have to consider weight carrying options but given a choice I would like to have with me a smaller bushcraft axe or khukuri , a Bhacho saw ( effective and light ) , a smaller decent sharp folding knife ( for instance an opinel ) , but certainly a well made strong bushcraft / hunting style knife with a well forged 5 inch blade . The list can go on . Throughout my days being involved in the great outdoors I always carried and still do an old tobacco tin with my own made up survival equipment , I like to think something for most emergencies !
Now as you cannot expect to carry tools for every use or occasion I will throw a question back at HG , if you only had one choice , what would be your choice of tool or weapon for any given survival type environment ? Not an easy question to answer , as I said " Horses for Courses )
 
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Unless in a very cold area where constant wood is needed to feed a fire for extended amounts of time...Fixed blade + folding saw/sven saw is way easier and lighter. Not to mention if you carry a foldable stove which can be found for under 20 bucks which can cook full meals on with twigs.
 
Knew I had this somewhere :)

This is the obligatory meet up knife display :) It used to be the custom to lay out all of those belonging to the people who turned up to a Meet. Kind of show off the shinies.

This was from the first Scottish meet up in Perthshire, over a decade ago.

View attachment 99554
Damn, Mary. I don't even own a third of that. :D
 
:D
Some of the show the shinies photos must have been worth thousands. The ones from the Midlands were amazing.

I wonder where those photos went ? Forum was in the early days then and British Blades was thriving.
 
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:D
Some of the show the shinies photos must have been worth thousands. The ones from the Midlands were amazing.

I wonder where those photos went ? Forum was in the early days then and British Blades was thriving.
Time shows us all the fools that we were lol. Same with technology. The old forum had the best stuff... Lost now to the annals of what was...whilst seeking what could be. Was it worth it, for a like button? I'd say no... but...i guess after 22 years, i'm just a forum dinosaur... wishing that the fossils of what was, still existed.
 
If you can mind something of a post, a word, a phrase, something unique enough to cut down the volume of replies then it's possible to search for even the very old threads.
Surprising how many of them still have photos.

One I've posted in from 2008


M
 
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:D
Some of the show the shinies photos must have been worth thousands. The ones from the Midlands were amazing.

I wonder where those photos went ? Forum was in the early days then and British Blades was thriving.
I was reading an article the other day of where there is a drought of photographs. Those early days of the internet where everyone thought that the internet was forever and had no local back-up. Huge amounts gone.
 
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I was reading an article the other day of where there is a drought of photographs. Those early days of the internet where everyone thought that the internet was forever and had no local back-up. Huge amounts gone.
Yeah, Just look at photobucket. I used them for years, as it was free, now hundreds of my photo's stored on there are locked behind a paywall. I still have them on a hard drive that broke, could potentially recover them, but also locked behind a paywall.
 
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Well I imagine that got your attention didn't it?

But it's a serious question.

Let me explain, when we look at the history of mankind a fixed blade knife wasn't the main tool option.

Otzi the iceman, for example, is probably the earliest none written example of a outdoorsmans tool choices. Yes he had a flint knife but that was the standard of the time. His main tool, the thing of value and there for the tool he valued the most was his bronze axe. If a knife was better why didn't he have a bronze knife and a flint axe?

Travel forward in time to the dark ages, what was the tool that every man had for both work and war? An axe, not a sword or spear these were for the elite, the warrior class. Yes, most people had a small fixed bladed eating knife which probably doubled up for a carving tool, but again the technology was limited. Although I do own a bronze handle from a roman pocket knife which was caste to depict a hound chasing a hare, there for we can assume it was a hunting knife and due to cost of manufacture at the time probably owned by someone of status.

Travel forward again to a time where metal tools were much more common and technology had evolved to allow cost and choice to be much more a personal thing such as the earliest days in the birth of the America's. A time where we have records of people's lives, a time where almost all people lived and worked outdoors in one form or another, what do we find? The choice of tools for the outdoorsmans, the long hunter and the soldiers on the frontier even the indigenous people they encountered was the folding pocket knife and the axe. Fixed bladed knives were used for butchery, of both beast and man, but for outdoor life it was a folding knife and a axe.

Records from the French and Indian wars show that soldiers on both sides were issued pocket knives, one in summer and two in winter, and belt axes. No records I have seen record soldiers being issued fixed bladed knives, indeed the belt axe is even recorded as being issued to replace the bayonet.

Jump forward again to the last century or so. People like Nessmuk, sportsmen and hunters, what do we know of their choice of tool? Well still we see the ancient wisdom of pocket knife and axe! Yes, the famous Nessmuk knife was there, but like the long hunter of old, his sheath knife was used purely for butchery or eating.

Even in the two world wars where more industrialised men where taken from town or semi rural life the cutting tool they were issued was a pocket knife.

So what's my point?

If at a time when men lived and breathed a life in the woods the pocket knife and the axe where the tools of choice, for many thousands of years (technology allowing) - now at a time where we all live in a life almost totally removed from nature our so called gurus and outdoors experts all preach we need a fixed bladed knife!

Why? What has changed?

Given that 90% of our so called outdoors experts are monkey see monkey do and are just regurgitating information they've been taught at some school or another and have rarely grown up in a immersed outdoor life so potentially don't have the depth of experience of our forebears, who was the person who started the trend or fad of the fixed blade knife?

Or, as I suspect might be the case, who was the genius who realized that modern outdoors folk lack in skill so much that it was better that carry a fixed bladed knife rather than the tools of choice of their ancestors?

OK, well done for bearing with me, I'm sure your now chomping at the bit to reply, but before you do bear in mind I'm not talking about collecting fixed blade knives or their practicality or beauty, i'm talking about why modern people (urban types we are now) seem to believe a fixed bladed knife is so special that they now ignore the woods wisdom of generations people who lived and breathed the life of a woodman.

And as a example of this let me add one last little gem! Batoning, so removed are we now from the wisdom of old that we had to invent a way of using a tool, not designed for the job, to split wood.

Moras etc aside, financially a good pocket knife and a belt axe is better value and more versatile than a sheath (one tool option) fix bladed knife.

Phew, hopefully I've explained my thoughts clearly enough. Now I'll grab a pipe and a coffee and await the replies I'm sure you good people will share

One word; Opinel. Once I got my first one and given that most 'other' tasks can be done with a hatchet, I never again spent money on any fixed blade 'bushcraft' knife. My Fallknivens are all living in the bottom of a box under the stairs.
 
This ^^^^^^^^^

@Sooty22 ]
One word; Opinel. Once I got my first one and given that most 'other' tasks can be done with a hatchet, I never again spent money on any fixed blade 'bushcraft' knife.

Edited to add:
…….. or secateurs and scissors.

[BcUK vibrates to the sound of rolling eyes. :lmao: ]
 
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Just because someone in the past did it their way does not constrain me from utilizing both the improved technologies of the present and radically expanded abilities to communicate with informed people outside of your immediate group/location.

I have seen all sorts of knives being used in the US in the field. You would be surprised just how many kitchen knives that I have seen stuck into improvised scabbards. That works for person. Are there better choices than an old, rusty chefs knife with blue tape on the cutting edge? Yes, but I have observed this almost every time that I have been on the Appalachian Trail.

I actually have considered the possibility that the true origin of Jim Bowie's knife was his idea of a more robust butcher knife. This, most classic of all American knife designs was likely some sort of expediency. Have I carried Bowie knives into the field in the past? Yes, sure, but they have limitations that newer designs have sought to address.

The beauty of being free is that one can choose your own path. I carry an automatic knife in my pocket everyday as my utility knife. For hiking, I am not limited. I can choose from several hundred knives in my collection, depending on what I am doing, where I am going and my anticipated load. No one conned me into making choices that my intellect directs me toward.
 

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