bushcraft instructor

[Stew]

I see a very good reason to join the TA, There may not be any 'bushcraft' involved, (apart from doing various survival courses and E&E) however knowing josh personally it would be a very good idea for him to join since he will learn other skills like campcraft, structure, discipline, fitness, navigation, first aid, actually living in the fieild and going on empty. I think it would be better for him than the scouts as the scouts are mainly children and therefore less maturity in general would be involved with the scouts. Also there are numerous adventure taining courses and instructor courses you get to go on all for free. Far better than any scout unit could even dream about doing.

Davey, you have some valid points but the Scouts shouldn't be dismissed so quickly. They want to teach. If they become a Scout Leader, they will gain a different type of experience that they won't get from the TA - kids and immaturity. It is a big challenge trying to teach Scouts.

It would actually be quite a good idea to join a Scout group as a bit of a work experience taster to see if they actually do want to teach.

 

[Graham_S]

If you can teach a bunch of ADHD riddled teenagers, then you can teach anyone.

I'm an ASL as well as ex military btw.

 

[Loenja]

If you can teach a bunch of ADHD riddled teenagers, then you can teach anyone.

I'm an ASL as well as ex military btw.

try 6 7/8 y/o kids who are scared of water too sail

 

[DavidJT]

I admire the ambition and go-for-it attitude of the two OP's, but speaking personally I would only really want to be taught by someone with 15- 20 odd years experience in the field. So if I were your age again I'd spend the next 10 years traveling the world and getting all sorts of tuition, knowledge, and adventure yourselves. Volunteering, assisting, doing a really wide variety of things, in different environments. Then, when you're about 30 you'll be brilliant bushcraft instructors.
There's a daunting amount of knowledge to be gathered out there on the subject, and lots of it can only be learned the hard way, endless repetition in the field.
Sorry if that's not what you wanted to hear, but it's the way I see it. On a positive note I think you have a great opportunity to get out there and have some adventure. Good luck with your plans, whatever you decide.

 

[Tiley]

CMS and CIC, courage, discipline, respect, integrity, loyalty, battle first aid, navigation, survival/field-craft skills, kit maintenance, weapon handling and the inherent safety structures, etc. etc.

This and Ray Britton's earlier message seem to polarise into two distinct camps when it comes to bushcraft and its delivery to the uninitiated. Yes, the military certainly equips you with the hard skills for bushcraft but falls short on the more ephemeral personal skills section, which is important when wanting to teach or share that passion. Equally, while the more nature-based approach to bushcraft can allow perhaps a deeper understanding of the environment in which one will live and work, it does not tick the box for the personal discipline required to live in the wilds successfully.

By all means, try the military option but, when you actually come to instruct others, be very aware of how and what you deliver to your clients: they are very probably paying for what you have to offer and are not there to be drilled relentlessly. There are, shall we say, 'softer' ways of getting across the need for safety and standards that are just as effective as those espoused by the military.

In the years that I have been dabbling in bushcraft, both as client and instructor, it is painfully easy to spot those who have served in some way, shape or form. I am not saying that their approach is wrong in any way; it is just that their demeanour and approach can be seen by some clients as somehow brusque or unsympathetic. Watch out for it - that's all!

 

[Ray Britton]

FGYT.

While we are off topic, you like to completely over react don't you lol

I told you I have a letter from my local force, and you reply with asking what the form number is etc. Simply point of to me where I mentioned it was an official form, and we can run through the rest of the points you dreamed up lol.

I simply have a letter from my local force (oddly enough, as that is what I said), that says they know I will be carrying specific offensive items, in a set geographic area ( a large area), and the way they will be stored and carried. This is as a member of the public (although you wrongly assume it related to a job). So, if I get stopped in the middle of the local town centre, as long as the police agreement is adhered to, then no action wil be taken....And more importantly, no sharps will be taken from me (which would mean potential loss of trade). Although I will have a laminated copy of the letter on me, the officer involved can look up the police reference on the letter, and refer it back to official police records if they wish.
Oh, yes I would be breaking the law if I were to carry a large knife/machete etc for no good reason, just as everyone else would. But the letter gives a good reason, that the officer on the scene would have no idea about otherwise. Not all officers are fully aware of all jobs or what they involve (obviously), and in a past job, I like many others were stopped by inexperienced officers who tried to prosecute us for having no tax on our vehicles....Army vehicles, that is lol

Maybe I have wasted my time explaining that I have exactly what i said I had, as you have already told me no one wrote write one for me!

 

[Stew]

FGYT.

While we are off topic, you like to completely over react don't you lol

I told you I have a letter from my local force, and you reply with asking what the form number is etc. Simply point of to me where I mentioned it was an official form, and we can run through the rest of the points you dreamed up lol.

I simply have a letter from my local force (oddly enough, as that is what I said), that says they know I will be carrying specific offensive items, in a set geographic area ( a large area), and the way they will be stored and carried. This is as a member of the public (although you wrongly assume it related to a job). So, if I get stopped in the middle of the local town centre, as long as the police agreement is adhered to, then no action wil be taken....And more importantly, no sharps will be taken from me (which would mean potential loss of trade). Although I will have a laminated copy of the letter on me, the officer involved can look up the police reference on the letter, and refer it back to official police records if they wish.
Oh, yes I would be breaking the law if I were to carry a large knife/machete etc for no good reason, just as everyone else would. But the letter gives a good reason, that the officer on the scene would have no idea about otherwise. Not all officers are fully aware of all jobs or what they involve (obviously), and in a past job, I like many others were stopped by inexperienced officers who tried to prosecute us for having no tax on our vehicles....Army vehicles, that is lol

Maybe I have wasted my time explaining that I have exactly what i said I had, as you have already told me no one wrote write one for me!

Not worth the paper it's written on.

 

[_mark_]

Tiley, I agree absolutely , my post was challenging Ray's assertion that the TA had little to offer a potential bushcraft instructor or Scout leader; though it by no means offers all the skill required it would be a great place to start. Also it is part time so you can do other things as well.

 

[Ray Britton]

Right, back on topic lol

There have been a few comments on my dismissal of joining the TA, and my favoured approach of the scouts. I note there is a good split in comments, which is nice to see, and I hope those posters know more of the scouts than I do.
To be honest I do not have that much experience of the scout movement, but do know that they have a wealth of outdoor experience (Baden Powell scouts in particular) and have many ex military instructors (I know of a few ex SF ones, so assume they know a bit of bushcraft). There are professional teachers as well as all other trades, so there is a good spread of knowledge. Scouts can also do many activities, and although they have strict rules, as less troubled by them than other groups.

I do however have a good knowledge of the TA, and have taught them on many occasions, so this is why I think they are not the best to learn bushcraft. If they did teach you survival and E and E (E and E is not called that anymore), then maybe the survival bit would be of some use, but generally they don't teach it. Battlefield first aid was mentioned. Again military first aid differs from civil first aid, and by law much of it would not be allowed to be practiced under H and S or liability insurance. Military teaching courses are very different from civilian ones, as they have stricter objectives, and so are not the best to learn for the two lads in question. As another poster said, you will also not get onto one for some time, as you will not need it until your first promotion. CMS (common military syllabus) was mentioned...How much of that is REALLY relevant to bushcraft, which is a civilian venture?
Loyalty was mentioned. If the two lads are not loyal to their business or clients then they will fail, so the financial penalty tends to bring loyalty.
Would military weapon handling be of any use in a country where almost all students would not be allowed to even hold a weapon?
Does anyone realistically think the TA will give any useful instruction in knife work? Mostly knives are banned from carriage (as soldiers use them on each other), and sharpening will be done via stores/armoury. On the other hand, the scouts know a fair bit about knives.

These are only my opinions of course, but I think it is silly to dismiss the very organisation that brought bushcraft to the masses in the UK, and has been doing it for a very long time.

Edited to add: Tiley, sorry our posts crossed, and I have to say I agree with you.

 

[Ray Britton]

Mark
Hi. As I said, these are only my opinions, based on what I have seen in my life.

Are you currently in a TA unit, and do you think that the courses mentioned so far would be available to the lads in question straight away? In relation to SERE (E and E in here), it would be illegal to teach what you have been trained on this, right?


OFF TOPIC
Thanks for the extra negative comment on my knife letter. Feel free to not get one and take a risk!. Mine has worked perfectly for me a few times now (I also know others who use them successfully too), and I will certainly carry on using it.
That's my last comment it it in here now.

 

[sapper1]

There is an expression that comes to mind with regards to reputations.
(It's a military one, so I've cleaned it up, but you'll get the gist)
One "Oops" wipes out one hundred "well dones"

Even better,"you're only as good as your last job".

 

[Tengu]

Why not do both scouting and the TA?

 

[Bushwhacker]

Is there a basket weaving regiment?

 

[FGYT]

i wouldnt recommend the TA as the best course of action unless you really want to do it you wont get much for a whle till you have doen some time and depending on the Unit might not get anything worth whlie for your busness plan
leadership and instructor training will take a while to get to

I also dont think Josh would get on in the TA and Lawrance with his injury might not pass a medical depending on how much loss of use he gets

scouts might be a good idea depending on what the instructor training is like and your dealing with the young which was part of your target customer base

another option to combine both areas and get good instructor training based on youth is Army Cadet Force instructor and unlike scouts you get paid

However you should only join any of these or other groups If you actiually want to joint them and contribute any way if your just going to get a course or exp then leave I whouldnt bother

ATB

Duncan

 

[Martyn]

A quick question. ....Do you all carry police authorising letters for the carrying of offensive weapons too?

Police letters arnt required as there the exemptions are already written into law. plus you would never get a copper to write such a letter any way

I take your point that NO COPPER would write an exception letter for carriage of knives.........So will go and tear up THE ONE I HAVE from my local police force.....Just on your say so lol!

Sorry to pick up on something irrelevant to this thread, but that letter is something I would love to see. Duncan is absolutely right, you dont need such a letter as an exemption is already written into parliamentary statute, which trumps a note from your local bobby, but aside from that, your local bobby does not have the lawful authority to write such an exemption - particularly one for "offensive weapons". No police officer is above the law and they cannot write letters which exempt citizens from parliamentary statutes. I'm not saying you dont have one, just that whoever wrote it, didnt have the lawful authority to write it and it isn't worth the paper it's written on. I dont expect you to post a scan of the letter or anything, but I would love to know the exact wording of it and the police authority that issued it?

The Home Office, or rather The Secretary of State (on behalf of the queen) is the only person I know of that has the lawful authority to issue permits for the carry of offensive weapons. It has been done on occasion, usually in NI where witnesses in fear of their lives have been issued with permits to carry section 5 firearms on their person for personal protection. But most of those have been revoked now, as the troubles are fading into history.

I dont know what your letter says, but I'm certain it does not give you permission to carry offensive weapons. I would have a good read of it, because I think you must be very much mistaken on what it gives you permission to do.

On that point, why would you need an offensive weapon in the woods anyway? Are you expecting to have to stab someone?

 

[Martyn]

Is there a basket weaving regiment?

 

[MSkiba]

I disagree with everyone! You dont have any letters from any bobbys, TA does not exist, and the scouts are just a myth.

I welcome your comments.

On a serious point, stop arguing if its better to join the TA or scouts. the OP's arnt going to do any of that and from the looks of it have abandoned this post, so why are you lot bikkering about what path they should take?

 

[JonathanD]

the OP's arnt going to do any of that and from the looks of it have abandoned this post, so why are you lot bikkering about what path they should take?

It is an annual event that starts at this time of year. The end of Summer makes us go cuckoo.

 

[MSkiba]

in that case I will join in!


wakaluluoooaaahaha!

 

[Siberianfury]

i think the best path is to actually think about it, right now it was just an idea in passing conversation.