Bullying
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The advice you give following this is excellent Emma. However I think your last statement above is exactly how most of us might define a coward, someone who only picks fights he knows he can win. A brave man would be one who enters a fight because he believes it's the right thing to do regardless of the consequenses (and in spite of his fear of those consequenses)
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Only a fool would pick a fight they know they will lose. Just because they have confidence in winning does not make them cowards. It means they like fighting. Some may be cowards. But most are not.
As a corrections officer I entered more than 1 fight when we were outnumbered (vastly) by the inmates. I could have stayed out of it and let the other officer take a beating alone but I hardly think that would have been the right thing to do. If that makes me a fool then so be it.
Been there with our children, its not nice. First stop was visit the parents which did the job for one, parents and School for another and the last one stopped when we had a solicitors letter sent recorded delivery.
Sadly many bullies were in fact the victim themselves but that does not stop the hurt they inflict on others.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2008/aug/29/bullying.schools
Don't loose your temper, keep very calm and clear when speaking to whoever you need to. The situation will end.
Sadly many bullies were in fact the victim themselves but that does not stop the hurt they inflict on others.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2008/aug/29/bullying.schools
Don't loose your temper, keep very calm and clear when speaking to whoever you need to. The situation will end.
No it doesn't and I agree he should not fight the bully 4 years older than him. However it does partially equate in that I too was scared stiff. In any case we were discussing whether the bully is a coward or not, not the victim.
Fantastic advice Emma, especially about dressing up for meetings...people will treat you differently and take your concerns more seriously if you look like you mean business. It shouldn't be the case but it's a fact of life and worth exploiting.
Talking to the head teacher just jogged my memory on something...some of the kids that attacked my kids attended their school but most didn't. Our kid's HT made contact with the other school's HT and made them aware of the incidents. The other HT then contacted me direct and asked me to contact them direct if anything else happened. The school cluster also had a campus cop who was kept up to date of events (unfortunately in our case they were the weak link in the chain and didn't contribute much to the process)
The joined up approach really does work although might feel like frustratingly slow progress at first.
Polite, reasonable but firm and determined can be a very productive method.
Talking to the head teacher just jogged my memory on something...some of the kids that attacked my kids attended their school but most didn't. Our kid's HT made contact with the other school's HT and made them aware of the incidents. The other HT then contacted me direct and asked me to contact them direct if anything else happened. The school cluster also had a campus cop who was kept up to date of events (unfortunately in our case they were the weak link in the chain and didn't contribute much to the process)
The joined up approach really does work although might feel like frustratingly slow progress at first.
Polite, reasonable but firm and determined can be a very productive method.
12 years old should really be old enough to know the difference between 8 and 12, perhaps the bully is autistic, keep an eye on the 12 year old and learn a bit about in particular adhd, you might save the 12 year old from not receiving help he might need.
Irrelevant . You are not an eight year old child or a bully. You are a morally proficient and experienced person who respects others.
I'm with Emma on this one. Record all incidents,talk to the Police, explain you've seen the parents of the bully with no result, stress the difference in ages, take names and numbers of officers dealt with. Be polite and well-groomed, but stress that you're looking for action before it escalates into serious injury to your son (with the unsaid but clear implication that they (ie the police whom you've dealt with) will then have difficult questions to answer..) Accept no platitudes, asking the clear question as to what action is planned - and follow-up to make sure it has. Do not let this drift on - get the police involved.
Don't get physically involved with either the bully or his parents unless physically attacked, and don't put yourself in the position where this can occur in the first place. You will then become the aggressor in the eyes of the law, which will do neither you nor your son any good.
Don't get physically involved with either the bully or his parents unless physically attacked, and don't put yourself in the position where this can occur in the first place. You will then become the aggressor in the eyes of the law, which will do neither you nor your son any good.
I was bullied at school (a fair while ago now!) because i was so small. Its good advice to walk away but its hard to do so without damaging your own self esteem and self value. Do you have any elder nephews or anything like that that your son could play with in your area? could they have a quiet word with the bully?
The advice my dad gave me is pretty outdated and un-PC. He used to tell me to fight back-which I did. I got a fair few kickings but he made me stand up for myself, and refused to get involved. The only advice I got was 'hit him back twice as hard as he hits you' and 'if he gets on top of you, reach up and bite his nose off'
I can't see this working nowadays, violence is to commonly accepted and the bully probably has to put up with attitudes like that at home...
I think you should follow Emmas advice, it seems like a sensible route. Believe me-you can't win by getting physical with these people-they know the system, you don't, it would be a no win situation. Take the moral high ground and go through the proper procedures and channels. They have been designed by people who have dealt with this behaviour and have knowledge of these kinds of situation.
And if that fails tell your boy to bite his bleeding nose off...!!
best of luck getting this sorted out mate!
The advice my dad gave me is pretty outdated and un-PC. He used to tell me to fight back-which I did. I got a fair few kickings but he made me stand up for myself, and refused to get involved. The only advice I got was 'hit him back twice as hard as he hits you' and 'if he gets on top of you, reach up and bite his nose off'
I can't see this working nowadays, violence is to commonly accepted and the bully probably has to put up with attitudes like that at home...
I think you should follow Emmas advice, it seems like a sensible route. Believe me-you can't win by getting physical with these people-they know the system, you don't, it would be a no win situation. Take the moral high ground and go through the proper procedures and channels. They have been designed by people who have dealt with this behaviour and have knowledge of these kinds of situation.
And if that fails tell your boy to bite his bleeding nose off...!!
best of luck getting this sorted out mate!
But you can not expect everyone else to be the same as you. People like you are a small minority. And as much as people would like themselves to be like you. Very few are. Even brave people find themselves in situations they can not cope with. They flee or hide or look the other way. It does not make the cowards. And then we have the bad people who just like inflicting pain and suffering. Labels like 'coward' and 'brave'. Does not apply to them. They can still be both. But at 8 and 12. These terms are moot anyway.
OK you pair. Delving into the psyche of a bully could take up 100 pages.
I was bullied by a right swine at school. He wasn't a coward, he'd fight everyone. That old term my dad gave me 'the bigger they are, the harder they fall'. Well that was a joke. More accurately it should have read 'the bigger they are, the harder they are'. Anyway. He was no coward. His military career was distinguished and his bravery something else. He just liked fighting whatever the odds. He lived for it at school, and it seemed he lived for it after school. He died for it too. To read his obituary would make you think he was one of the finest people a person could ever know. In truth, he may well have grown up to be just that. But between the ages of 12 and 15, he made a few peoples lives hell, and I bet they remember and hate him vehemently to this day.
I was bullied by a right swine at school. He wasn't a coward, he'd fight everyone. That old term my dad gave me 'the bigger they are, the harder they fall'. Well that was a joke. More accurately it should have read 'the bigger they are, the harder they are'. Anyway. He was no coward. His military career was distinguished and his bravery something else. He just liked fighting whatever the odds. He lived for it at school, and it seemed he lived for it after school. He died for it too. To read his obituary would make you think he was one of the finest people a person could ever know. In truth, he may well have grown up to be just that. But between the ages of 12 and 15, he made a few peoples lives hell, and I bet they remember and hate him vehemently to this day.
I partially agree with that post Emma (I agree entirely with your advice as to how to handle the situation BTW)
Indeed most of us have periods of both bravery and cowardice and usually everything in between. We are human after all. The terms are partially moot at 8 (but not by 12 when most boys over here have begun playing combative sports such as American football) However 8 is also an age when they are sponges soaking up whatever you can teach them, so the concepts are relevant.
Indeed most of us have periods of both bravery and cowardice and usually everything in between. We are human after all. The terms are partially moot at 8 (but not by 12 when most boys over here have begun playing combative sports such as American football) However 8 is also an age when they are sponges soaking up whatever you can teach them, so the concepts are relevant.
Depends on how big YOU are and how nasty and brutal YOU are willing to get. Not the best idea to go in all guns blazing and ending up with a knife in your chest.
Granted JD and I don't believe all bullies are cowards either. Rather that someone who only picks fights he knows he can win fits the description of a coward (and I also have known bullies that did not fit this description)
