Bullying

[markie*mark0]

A little off topic but i'd appriciate some of your feedback on a problem we're having.


My eldest son is 8 years old, he is tall/large for his size. Similar size to average 12 yo.
We moved into our new home around 12 months ago, a cul-de-sac with lots of other children to play with, approx 10 kids in the street, ages from 6 to 12

My son plays with all the children fine with the exception of one 12 yo who seems to have a disliking for him. Now i know every parent says their child is an angel and im not that daft, i know on rare occasions that my son will be the cause of a particular incident, but over 70-80% of the time the 12yo boy is the instigator of the incident.

Examples range from, verbal bullying i.e. no-body likes you, go away. to physical pushing / kicking / riding into him on pushbikes etc.

At first we thought it was just one of those things and it would pass, but its getting worse if anything....


We have had discussions with his parents who obviously take a defensive stance with their son, saying that its not all him its both parties to which my son would be punished accordingly. But with the majority of incident's they do not seem to take any interest and nothing is really happening from their side when it is their son "doing" the bullying.

We're at a point when an incident happens im absolutely infuriated as my son is becoming upset, and we tell the kids off in the street and tell them to play nice, but this has no affect. Since the 12yo mouths-off back to my wife and will "argue" with any parent that tell's him he's in the wrong.


Anyone have any advice?

thanks mark

 

[Hoodoo]

No advice, but you and your son have my sincere sympathy. Bullying is a never ending problem for kids and can lead to all kinds of tragic events. I hope you get it worked out.

 

[roger-uk]

Can you try teaching your son to "look" after himself. Sadly most bullies were bullied themselves and are, in the main cowards, if he fights back then maybe it will stop.

 

[ex-member Raikey]

my solution isnt very appropriate to post on here ,

but it does work instantly

although the bully does need to have a Father present in the household for it to work .

 

[markie*mark0]

Can you try teaching your son to "look" after himself. Sadly most bullies were bullied themselves and are, in the main cowards, if he fights back then maybe it will stop.

unfortunatly i dont think this approach will work, since he is 8 and the bully is 12 he naturally has a physical and mental advantage. In addition i have also taught my lad to hold his ground, but the new school is trying to turn away from this approach so its going to be very confusing for him to not to hold his ground at school and then hold his ground at home....

my solution isnt very appropriate to post on here ,

but it does work instantly

although the bully does need to have a Father present in the household for it to work .

I've already had this discussion in great length with my better half, the basic is when a serious incident happens i re-enact the exact same thing to his father and tell him i'll do it each and everytime, but then common sense does bring me back around, that and the fact i dont like jail !

 

[Prawnster]

I have a nine year old boy who has had a few problems with one or two lads in his class. Granted they were of the same age as my boy but they were nasty all the same. I told my boy to take a 'whatever' attitude to their verbal taunts. Bullies like to feel that they have power over someone else's feelings. If the victim can show or pretend that the bully's nastiness has absolutely no effect on him then it can take the wind out of the bully's sails. Obviously it is rarely as easy as it sounds but my lad has had some success with this approach.
Hope the situation settles down for you as I know how frustrating it can be as a parent.



Sent from my phone.

 

[BillyBlade]

my solution isnt very appropriate to post on here ,

but it does work instantly

although the bully does need to have a Father present in the household for it to work .

Sounds like you did what I did when my daughter was getting some very rough unwanted attention from two boys some years older than her at primary school.

The nice methods failed. The school failed. Her coming home bleeding through 'rough play' was the last straw.

Taking it to their fathers in their own front hallways meant it stopped, instantly.

Like it or not, it's the only language some in our society actually understand.

 

[swright81076]

my solution isnt very appropriate to post on here ,

but it does work instantly

although the bully does need to have a Father present in the household for it to work .

We too have had similar problems at our previous address, this way DOES work, and with some of the dreadful families, its all they understand.

 

[tiger stacker]

Good luck, I take it the older boy will be goign into first year of high school?

IF he and his parents persist, there may be a solution with the local council, anti social behaviour is frowned apon.
Is there any local groups cubs scouts or boy brigade that can let your son have fun without the older boy being present.
Nothing stops a bully like a punch on the nose this may help http://www.bullying.co.uk/ + http://www.childline.org.uk/explore/bullying/pages/bullying.aspx

 

[NS40]

I had (and still have a similar problem from time to time). It's hard going Mark so I empathise completely.

A local gang of 'apprentice neds' has been giving my 3 kids problems for a couple of years now.

It had been fairly low level stuff initially (name calling & such) with some more serious incidents including threats/assaults but escalated one day when a gang of about 15-20 attacked them en masse one day. I got a panicked call from my daughter and ran the half mile to where they were (phoning the cops as I ran).

The gang scattered when I arrived and the cops arrived shortly after. All 3 of my kids were battered and bruised, my eldest son (11 at the time) was lying in a pile where a group of them had cornered him and been kicking and stomping on him. The police were retiscent to follow up at first but when they heard the history they went ahead. The members of the gang all grassed each other up to save their own skins and there was enough evidence to charge the ringleaders. There were a few incidents after that but over time the gang grew increasingly smaller and I would contact the police/their school everytime something happened.

I had thought about a more direct approach (believe me the temptation was everpresent) but I know from experience that when a fight between kids becomes a dispute between adults it has the potential to get real nasty real quick. The parents of the kids involved were mostly 'frequent flyers' with the cops/social services so not exactly amenable to having a 'parent to parent chat'.

You've taken the right approach in approaching the parents and giving them the chance to do something...it may be that they're blinkered or simply not bothered. Either way they need to start taking an interest...

You could explain to them that if these incidents continue you may have to contact the police due to the effect it's having on your son's welfare. If it happens again, speak to the community police and explain that you have tried to speak to the parents, they're not hugely interested and the incidents are continuing. Labour the point with the cops about how it is affecting your son and if he is becoming stressed by it, spending less time outdoors or is becoming visibly nervous.

Log all the incidents no matter how minor (starting now) with times/dates etc, ensure you have incident numbers/attending officers names or numbers if the police are involved (they may not give you them unless you ask & it does remind the officers that you will be following up).

It may simply take one visit from the police to scared the proverbial out of the bully or it may be the incentive his parents have to take firmer control of 'their little angel'. If it continues, it's all about the inconvenience to the other parents as sooner or later they'll get fed up with the cops turning up at their door. In our case, several of the kids were referred to the children's panel which created a further inconvenience for their parents.

You can judge for yourself whether you feel this might be suitable in your son's case or whether you feel it hasn't reached that stage yet.

Enrolling your son in a martial arts class might be useful too...not to create some stupid Karate Kid scenario where he defeats the bully and gets the girl...just to boost his confidence, give him some additional ability to protect himself by avoiding getting hit. Remind him that running away or calling for help is a good thing and try not to let others influence him with any macho crap. Give him some good distractions when he needs it and remind him he can talk to you anytime.

I'm sure you know it may get worse before it gets better but I'm sure your own judgement will let you know when/if you need to take a more formal route.

When you feel yourself wanting to take a more direct and persuasive route, go find something else to do for a while and remind yourself that there's always the potential for escalation...I'm sure your son would rather have his Dad at home than in prison or hospital.

Take care and hope things do work out for you all. Let us know how you're getting on but by all means come back and talk more, even if it's to sound off among friends.

 

[santaman2000]

Loads of options:
1. Don't allow your son to have any further contact with the bully.
2. If it's too difficult getting criminal charges against the bully, then file a civil lawsuit against his parents as they aren't trying to control him. I don't know how easy or difficult that is in the UK but the threat of losing money should definitely get their attention.
3. Get your son a dog.
4. Tell your son that if the bully ever demands to take his lunch money, just tell him, "I left it on your mom's dresser."

 

[Hoodoo]

I have a nine year old boy who has had a few problems with one or two lads in his class. Granted they were of the same age as my boy but they were nasty all the same. I told my boy to take a 'whatever' attitude to their verbal taunts. Bullies like to feel that they have power over someone else's feelings. If the victim can show or pretend that the bully's nastiness has absolutely no effect on him then it can take the wind out of the bully's sails. Obviously it is rarely as easy as it sounds but my lad has had some success with this approach.
Hope the situation settles down for you as I know how frustrating it can be as a parent.



Sent from my phone.

I really think this approach makes a lot of sense. Bullies tend to escalate their attacks when they see they can intimidate their victims. When someone responds to their attacks by pretending it's a joke and laughing about it, it tends to take the wind out of their sails. They feed on hostile responses. It gives them a chance to show how tough they can be.

 

[JonathanD]

Emm is a good person to talk to on this matter. She's dealt with some serious bullying cases in the past, both in her time at a school and at a couple of Universities she's worked at with 100% success. She heads up a committee that deals with this kind of thing. I'll be speaking to her later this evening, and I'll tell her to pop online and read the thread. Drop her a PM too. It's a subject she's passionate about and I'm sure she can help.

 

[JAG009]

This will work speak to the other boys father and if he agrees to it, take the two of them down to the local boxing club get them some tuition and then put them in the ring and tell them to get it sorted
As roger uk says bullies are cowards and when he gets a few belts in the ring he will think twice about doing it again
Now am not saying you should do this but a good few lessons at the club for your boy before you take the two of them down will go down a treat

Hope you get this sorted soon




Jason

 

[santaman2000]

This will work speak to the other boys father and if he agrees to it, take the two of them down to the local boxing club get them some tuition and then put them in the ring and tell them to get it sorted...

Back when I was in school this was a common approach the principle (headmaster) would have taken. However given the age difference in this case it seems unlikely to work out in favor of the victim.

In my earlier post one of my suggestions was to not allow your son any further contact with the bully. Expanding on that thought I might ask if the other kids are having similar problems with the same bully. If so, take that suggestion further and see if THEY are willing to simply send the bully to Coventry.

 

[udamiano]

THEY are willing to simply send the bully to Coventry.

We don't want them ! can't abide a bully

 

[Biker]

I can't offer any significant advice than has already been suggested. I was a victim of bullying (briefly at school) and was able to offer my daughter advice when they went through it. Happy to say they weren't victims much longer. You seem to be taking the right steps and getting others involved though. Wishing you and your son all the very best.

I hate bullying, reading about it just chaps me off soooo much.

 

[drewdunnrespect]

well having been bullied myself i no exactly what the lad is going through and well its not nice.

Now how did i deal with it simples just walked away and left them to it then stayed in for a couple of weeks and then i went out and didnt hang aroun d with them and just left them to it

now the bullies at school that was different but i always told some one and eventually thanks to a mate of the families who was the same age as me i aquiered friends.

Now what i would like to say though is that the only place i really feel i have trully felt accepted from the word go is here bushcraftuk,com do you know it lol

but yes it can be a bar steward to go through yes it has taught me alot including that i am stronger and more emotionally intelligent and a proper human being who has sympathy and looks after his mates because to many people use the word respect as a means to mean fear and well i dont respect is just that respect and well its thanks to bullying that i am a stronger person

so inregards your son tell him to just to walk away and shout shut up you fat f well i think u can work out the word why well it shows he is above it all and he just doesnt care for it

drew

 

[EmmaD]

It iss a common misconception that bullies are cowards. Most of the time they are not. They are the Alpha Male/Female asserting dominance over a weaker member. Why? Because they can. They find it fun. They want a reaction so they can provoke a fight they know they can win.

If you tell the person being bullied to stand up to the bully this will mostly end in disaster and make things worse. If the bully wins, it can affect the bullied child for life.

The bullied child given the advice to stand up to the bully will often feel vulnerable and even more alone The act of standing up to the bully will be more terrifying than accepting future bullying. Standing up to the parents with the atttude expressed in this case, will either end in you getting into a dangerous situation, or the parent telling his son to give the kid of the obnoxious parents grief for as long as he can. The bullying will then escalate.

In this case, the eight year old has zero chance of winning against a twelve year old. The matter can not be resolved by the child. He is too young. Only the parents and someone in authority can sort the matter out.

If the child is in the same school as the bully, you must take it up directly with the Head Teacher. No short cuts. Directly to the Head Teacher. But before this - you need to seek advice from the police and prepare a factual and straight list of your and your sons grievances. Then you have a high card to play when you see the Head Teacher. You have seen the police regarding the matter! This highlights the seriousness, and shows the Head Teacher that the matter, if not handled correctly and swiftly, could see them personally under review.

If the bully is not in your sons school. You still get police advice. You then see your sons Head Teacher and ask if your son shows any affect of this bullying in school lessons, and if any signs of bullying have been shown from his own schoolmates. Again mention the police, the incidents and the parents attitude. You then see if the Head is willing to approach the bullies own Head. If not, you ask the advice of the Head and do it yourself.

When you go to these appointments, dress very smartly and very well groomed and go with your partner. First impressions are everything. Body language is everything. Be serious but not difficult. Win them over with charm and sincerity. Carrying a folder with your notes is a good prop. You may not have to use it, but its presence will be noted and the Officer/Head Teacher will wonder if you will be adding notes about that meeting to it as well. They will not want anything negative going into that folder about them.

This may seem over the top, but you are playing by the rules. And you have to take it to the people the parents and the bully fear. They do not fear you as you have seen. So you find the people in authority who can make things difficult for them and you take it as high as possible. People do not like the inconvenience of being called up by Head Teachers or the Police. They will make the son back off. And if they do not. You repeat.

Remember you asking the Police and Head Teacher for advice only unless the bully shares the same school. Then you can lodge a complaint.

 

[mountainm]

Well said emma. In my experience bullies are seldom weak.