Bronze age knives

[Dreadhead]

For some reason im very fond of bronze and love all types of bronze age knives. just came across this recreation and though it was quite an interesting shape. does anybody think a knife-shape like this is practical for the bush?

tis purely whimsical as i wouldnt go out walking expecting a bronze knife tae perform anywhere near modern knives. but still takes my fancy...

http://www.wulflund.com/weapons/knives/bronze-knife-lusatian-culture.html

Hamish

 

[Toddy]

What on Earth was that based on ?

I have a couple of bronze knives; very nice, but.....tbh, sickle and axes apart, they are bested by a good flint one. Lots of folk reckon that they were more status symbol 'bling' than of great use.

Did you see the link to the Archaeo-metallurgy site ? and conference ?

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Ogri the trog]

Thats an interesting profile H,

Somewhat akin to a mini Khukri!

From the one picture it appears that the spine of the knife is quite thick, almost a "T" section which would preclude many of the cuts that we take for granted in Bushy creations.

I'm also curious about the wear/corrosion that looks limited to the cutting edge region - wondering what would it have been used on to cause that.

Certainly nothing wrong in taking inspiration from earlier times.

Ogri the trog

 

[udamiano]

Very strange spine, it would only mean that the actual edge itself was usable, as the spine shape would stop anything sliding over the blade, Any idea what it was originally used for, I would be quite interested to find out.

The only thing I can think of is that a shape like that would cause some serious trauma if stuck in, with the t-shaped spine allowing for the blade to be withdrawn and not become stuck due to suction. a bit like a blood groove on a modern combat blade

Thanks for the post

 

[shaggystu]

i am right in thinking that this is a reproduction aren't i?

 

[Dreadhead]

aye the link wont work for the acual website :S and there are limited details : "A bronze knife - Lusatian culture. Age: approx 1000 of Old Age (Bronze Age). Central Europe."

i thought it interested as you folks have mentioned because of the spine. afraid i cant shed anymore light on it. tis from the website Wulflund if anyone is interested in a further look. i have nae affiliation with them, have just purchased goods in the past.

 

[shaggystu]

not trying to detract at all from the OP (the bronze knife question is quite a valid one IMO), but i don't think we should spend too much time worrying about the details of this particular piece. i'm not doubting for one second the veracity of the claims made by this website (for example, "A bronze knife - Lusatian culture. Age: approx 1000 of Old Age (Bronze Age). Central Europe."), but they do also sell "anti-vampire leather necklaces"

stuart

 

[udamiano]

I found this in a listing in Russian



You can see the blade next to the Sword Ill keep having a look and see if I can find anymore info on it


Day

 

[Dreadhead]

not trying to detract at all from the OP (the bronze knife question is quite a valid one IMO), but i don't think we should spend too much time worrying about the details of this particular piece. i'm not doubting for one second the veracity of the claims made by this website (for example, "A bronze knife - Lusatian culture. Age: approx 1000 of Old Age (Bronze Age). Central Europe."), but they do also sell "anti-vampire leather necklaces"

stuart

hahaha you are indeed correct! i used tae buy alot of viking gear off their when the company was rather small. since then they have just added a whole load of crap aimed at the budding 'vampire' gothic culture rubbish. tis a shame as it really tarnishes their business in my view but i guess they cant just make enough money on reproductions

 

[HillBill]

Very strange spine, it would only mean that the actual edge itself was usable, as the spine shape would stop anything sliding over the blade, Any idea what it was originally used for, I would be quite interested to find out.

The only thing I can think of is that a shape like that would cause some serious trauma if stuck in, with the t-shaped spine allowing for the blade to be withdrawn and not become stuck due to suction. a bit like a blood groove on a modern combat blade

Thanks for the post

I'd hazard a guess and say it was a knife used for butchering large animals, the spine would help in stopping a cut from going too deep. Seems to have a general hunting knife appearance about it too.

 

[shaggystu]

hahaha you are indeed correct! i used tae buy alot of viking gear off their when the company was rather small. since then they have just added a whole load of crap aimed at the budding 'vampire' gothic culture rubbish. tis a shame as it really tarnishes their business in my view but i guess they cant just make enough money on reproductions

a lot of the stuff on that website does look (to my uneducated mind at least) like the "real deal", unfortunately it seems to be mixed in fairly randomly with most of the props from conan the barbarian, good stuff!

i think that the bronze knife idea has some distance in it though, after all the romans still issued bronze swords to their officers well into the iron age, and they didn't do too badly out of it

 

[Stringmaker]

May I refer you to this classic:

[h=3]The Mitchell and Webb Look - Bronze Age Orientation Day[/h]


www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTLyXamRvk4

I can't actually see that on this PC (work) so I hope the link works.

If it doesn't then you'll find the video using the search term in the title.

 

[shaggystu]

May I refer you to this classic....

good stuff

 

[udamiano]

This is a Italian version of the blade, again in bronze with a bone handle



Italy, Friuli-Venezia Giulia region.

I guessing that the curvature give a greater cutting surface than the actual length. I would tend to agree with HillBill that the spine stops the blade cutting to deep, although I hazard a guess that it was more a weapon than a working blade, a real slasher to coin a phrase

 

[shaggystu]

could it simply be that the "T" shaped blade is simply to give more rigidity to the blade whilst cutting down on the weight and/or amount of bronze needed to make a knife? an economically driven design compromise?

 

[udamiano]

Quite an interesting thread on early knife designs

http://forums.dfoggknives.com/index.php?showtopic=17595

and one here


http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?105832-Two-bronze-age-knives

Im beginning to think what we are seeing as a T shaped spine is actually a thick spine but with a tight curve, which seems to be a fashion of the time. Anyway thats all I could find in the last half hour or so.

Very interesting though

 

[HillBill]

It really doesn't strike me as a weapon, it could be but, its a very poor design if it is.

If it was much larger, such a falcata then yeah it would make an effective weapon, but the size and shape it is, means it would make a poor killer. It doesn't look like a stabber, and knives designed as weapons are pure stabbers, such as the roman daggers or the fairburn sykes dagger.

I'll still hold out for a hunting knife as it seems to have a thin blade designed for cutting softer materials in a controlled way.

This is a Italian version of the blade, again in bronze with a bone handle



View attachment 8615

Italy, Friuli-Venezia Giulia region.

I guessing that the curvature give a greater cutting surface than the actual length. I would tend to agree with HillBill that the spine stops the blade cutting to deep, although I hazard a guess that it was more a weapon than a working blade, a real slasher to coin a phrase

 

[Dreadhead]

i may have tae employ you as my personal bushcraft kit researcher

Quite an interesting thread on early knife designs

http://forums.dfoggknives.com/index.php?showtopic=17595

and one here


http://www.swordforum.com/forums/showthread.php?105832-Two-bronze-age-knives

Im beginning to think what we are seeing as a T shaped spine is actually a thick spine but with a tight curve, which seems to be a fashion of the time. Anyway thats all I could find in the last half hour or so.

Very interesting though

 

[Toddy]

Bronze knives and swords bend. A capped spine strengthens that and support the thinner blade.

The knuckleduster handle on the original is a total anomally I reckon, and I still think 'bling' rather than practical use.

I'm not saying that bronze blades are useless, iimmc, the Greeks carved out an Empire using them after all, but for the kind of things that a small sharp blade is needed for, used as we do, bronze needs too much attention, and it was expensive at the time to be constantly sharpened and degraded.

I tried working with flint, copper, bronze and iron small knives, each for a day's work in period kit.
The one that consistantly worked effectively was the flint. From small butchery and cooking tasks, to skin prep and weaving, to plant materials.
Iron becomes stonger, more forgiving, more consistantly sized and finer for it's strength though.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[shaggystu]

Bronze knives and swords bend. A capped spine strengthens that and support the thinner blade.....

that's what i thought

.....The knuckleduster handle on the original is a total anomally I reckon, and I still think 'bling' rather than practical use......

it was the hoes in the handle that made me doubt it, they're too difficult to make for any vague benefit that they may have IMO

economics used to play a much bigger part in things than it does now, a "T" shaped blade is gonna be a lot cheaper than a plain blade of equal strength, simply because it uses a lot less material. "knuckleduster" handles are going to require a lot more material and manufacturing skill than the usual stick tang construction

....the Greeks carved out an Empire using them after all....

am i right in thinking that the romans used bronze for their officers too mary? i seem to remember reading somewhere that a well made bronze sword would pretty much shatter your average iron sword when they came into contact with one another. again, economics plays a massive part, iron's much cheaper than bronze so the rank and file made do with iron swords whilst the officers got the good stuff