Blade shapes

[sam_acw]

Here's a question ( afairly open ended one) that i'd like some help answering.
It's about the sdifferent shapes of blade (eg. spearpoint, lambsfoot, tanto) and what their relative practical uses are.
Most of the bushcrafter/woodlore type knives are spearpoints presumable because it gives you a lot of control with the tip for making holes.
I've read that sheepsfoot/lambsfoot knives are designed to stop sailore stabbing each other!
What about the other shapes and their relative merits?

 

[bushtuckerman]

spear point also helps with skinning i've been told, since you are less likely to puncture organs. main advantage i would have though is the control like you say. lambsfoot profiles are generally used as emergency knives for cutting rope, so yeah, for sailors, but also mountaineers. of course they're useful for other jobs too, but not a great deal that i've come up with.

I like the idea of spear point but i've never used one. i have several scandi ground knives and all are relatively straight spined, i have gotten used to this and have learnt to use my thumb quite effctively as a pivot for delicate carving with this profile, so i may not get on so well with spearpoint when i no doubt aquire one.

I'd have to be enlightened on tanto knives no idea what they are.

 

[Andy]

Joe Talmadge did a good piece on it
http://www.worldknives.com/geometry.asp

 

[Seagull]

Hey up, Sam.

Nah! sailors knives werent originally designed that way.
They got to be that shape, for the reason you mention.

What happened, was the crew were mustered at the start of a voyage and presented their cutlery to the Mate and if it had a point, it was passed to the Chippy (carpenter)
who had a small anvil rigged ready. He used to give the pointy end a few good blows with a hammer , effectively reprofiling to a sheepsfoot shape.

Not a Job Safety Analysis in sight.

Not that it was 100 percent effective, cos a lot of the lads would have an un-declared, pointy, spare blade.

Ceeg

 

[Graham_S]

the tanto point is mainly for a fighting knife, being primarily designed to peirce armour.
it's not much use for bushcraft as the sharp angle change between blade and tip makes it less useful for many of the tasks we carry out.

 

[gunther]

Don't know what you mean, but a Finnish 'PUUKKO' is sharpened under 60 and 30 degrees -just like an ax- to be able to split wood for campfires and the building of shelters. Hope it's any help

 

[pierre girard]

Here's a question ( afairly open ended one) that i'd like some help answering.
It's about the sdifferent shapes of blade (eg. spearpoint, lambsfoot, tanto) and what their relative practical uses are.
Most of the bushcrafter/woodlore type knives are spearpoints presumable because it gives you a lot of control with the tip for making holes.
I've read that sheepsfoot/lambsfoot knives are designed to stop sailore stabbing each other!
What about the other shapes and their relative merits?

Can you show an example of a lambsfoot? URL or IMG? Not familiar with that designation. I think I know what you mean by spearpoint, which is my favorite style - as I usually use a neck sheath in the woods (one less thing to get hung up on branches).

PG

 

[BorderReiver]

My most used blade shapes are scandi style,that is a straight back all the way to the point.This is sufficiently pointy for the few times I need to make holes in things.

In my hands a spear point is too fragile and not really necessary for what I do.

I also like wharncliffe style blades in folders.Nice straight cutting edge that is easy to keep sharp.

 

[BorderReiver]

Can you show an example of a lambsfoot?
PG

Very like a Wharncliffe blade Pierre.

 

[mrostov]

Unless I know I'll be in a salt water environment, I tend to prefer a carbon steel blade like a Marbles Woodcraft with a 4-1/2" blade or one of the older Western W66 or L66 skinners, also with a similar blade shape and length. Camillus still makes the Western L66 in 420HC stainless. I also tend to really like the old Western W39 pattern knives which have a 5" blade curved, upswept blade with a bit of a hump at the base of the blade for a thumbrest.

I also have a fondness for the USAF (US Air Force) pilot's survival knife, which is essentially a modified Marbles Ideal Hunting Knife with a 5" blade. The pilot's knife is made by either Camillus or Ontario and it's 1095 carbon steel and the Camillus knives generally have a temper of about Rc58. I'd get the Camillus if there was an option. This knife has been in continuous production since the 1950's.

In the USA these are super common knives and you can generally find then used or surplus (swap meets, pawn shops) for about what a Mora knife costs or even less. Even new with a metal tipped/backed leather sheath and a sharpening stone they are only about $35.

They have a saw on the back optimized for cutting through an aluminum aircraft fuselage, but it also is excellent for making notches in wood and short cuts. It makes a notch that is just the right size for military paracord. The hammer pommel is also kind of handy sometimes. Most of them, new or used, could generally use a bit of edge reprofiling with a sanding block.

Having an ulu is also a handy thing to keep around, especially for skinning and laying out a deer hide, but my Norlund hatchet can generally do double duty in that regard and well as some of the tougher butchering tasks.

Marbles Woodcraft (The blades look stainless in the picture but they are really carbon steel)

USAF Pilot's Survival Knife

 

[leon-1]

Hi mate for the tanto there is a reasonable entry in the wikipedia with a couple of pictures, that should give a brief outline as to what Tanto's are designed and used for.

Some martial arts societys still train with them, you can find one here with a little entry as to what they are on the front page.

 

[C_Claycomb]

Errr. Mrostov, did you mean to post on this thread?

Its a very informative post, but it doesn't seem to have anything to do with the topic of the thread. The rest of the thread is talking about blade tips, and your post describes everything about the Marbles knives except tip design. You might want to do some editing .

pierre girard, I believe that lambsfoot = sheep's foot, as used on the stockman type slipjoints. (middle blade in picture)

 

[mrostov]

Errr. Mrostov, did you mean to post on this thread?

Its a very informative post, but it doesn't seem to have anything to do with the topic of the thread. The rest of the thread is talking about blade tips, and your post describes everything about the Marbles knives except tip design. You might want to do some editing .

pierre girard, I believe that lambsfoot = sheep's foot, as used on the stockman type slipjoints. (middle blade in picture)

The original thread was stated to be about blade shapes, but did seem to develop later a focus on the tips.

The pictures explain a lot but I'll add some info. (maybe it was just too late here - staying up to talk to someone in Asia).

Concverning the Marbles knives and their tips, the thing that you have to remember about knives from an American woodsman's perspective is that in addition to bushcraft and camp chores, it also needs to be efficient for skinning, butchering, and general dressing out the ever present whitetail deer and the occasional elk in addition to gutting and cleaning a trout or a catfish. This country has millions of deer. Texas alone has an estimated 1 million. The US loses 100,000 deer per year just from being hit by vehicles.

If you look at the Marbles Woodcraft design (also very similar to the Western brand skinners that were sold by the millions) you'll see that the curve of the blade has a lot of body to it and a nice curve, yet, while it has a point (ever useful) you can still flip the blade over and with your fingers as a guide you can run the blade upside down to safely slit open the belly of a deer.

So, the point integrated with the overall shape of the blade gives you a knife that you can gut and clean a catfish or a trout, cut leather strips and make a items like a bow drill if you need to, and dress out a deer or an elk. Unlike some knives that are very much oriented towards the gutting task (like the Gerber Freeman) a knife like the Marbles still retains a good point useful for other tasks.

Knives like the Mora are good blades, but they are a tad narrow for efficiently skinning and butchering a large animal. You can have a relatively short knife that is still a good hunter's knife, like the Buck 112 folder or the Cold Steel Pendelton Hunter, but you'll notice that the blade is relatively wider in proportion than the Mora is with more 'belly' to the blade towards the tip.

The old timers like Rutstrum, Angier, and Kephart recommended a knife that was pretty much identical to the Marbles and Western L66 designs as a general wilderness knife and as a companion to an axe.

Now the tip on the USAF pilot's survival knife is kind of different. You can sharpen the false edge and in addition to a regular clip point hunting knife, you also then have a draw knife for various tasks.

There seems to be some question on the sheepsfoot design. For marine use, the sheepfoot design is common because of the safety of the tip when in use in a rolling, pitching environment that is in constant motion - often with other people around - and in case it's accidentally dropped by someone from up in the rigging.

 

[sam_acw]

I was more enquiring about tip shapes than grinds or specific models.
I'd still like to know why it's useful to have 3 different shaped blades on a single (folding) knife.
As far as i know the sheeps/lambs foot is the same thing.

 

[gregorach]

Well, I have a stockman in my pocket right now, so I can tell you what I like about the 3 blade shapes. Other's opinions may vary...

The clip point is good for fine work, such as tight concave curves, because it's got a very narrow blade. It also reaches places the other blades can't, and makes a pretty good auger. I suspect it would also be pretty handy for gutting fish, although I haven't used it for this myself.

The sheepsfoot is good for precise stop-cuts - I find it much easier to guide the tip of this blade precisely, as you can get a good grip near the tip of the blade, you can apply more force without it slipping, and it's easier to locate the tip. I find starting a stop-cut at a precise point with a curved blade a little trickier.

The spey point is good for general whittling tasks, as you can cut in either direction with it (although you need to be careful if you're pushing it forward to make sure that you don't accidentally close the balde). The curve seems to suit removing wedges very nicely.