Big Cats

[silentpaddler]

Here in Ontario we have a parallel controversy; are Eastern Cougars extinct or do breeding populations exist?
I don't think even the scientists know. A couple years back, though, I was doing some backcountry camping around here and I ran into
a guy I used to work with a long time ago. He was fishing a couple of the remote lakes in the area and he swore up and down to me that
he was being stalked by a cougar on one of the portage trails; says he saw it plain as day at no more than 50 yards. Scared the living bejeezus
out of him the way it crept along so silently, he said.
I have no reason to doubt his story and to be honest I could see where this area could be good for big cats; the bush around here can be as dense
as any jungle and probably great for an ambush predator. Almost makes the bears seem friendly...

 

[Chasing Rainbows]

Here in Ontario we have a parallel controversy; are Eastern Cougars extinct or do breeding populations exist?

Some cats have stealth that appears almost supernatural. Perhaps they have to be considering you as a lunch item before you get a chance to see one.

Another thing sprung to mind over breakfast this morning.

Y'know all that 'chupacabra' buisiness over in central America? I remember seeing something about them finding a new species similar to coyote as a result. Elusive and nocturnal if I'm not wrong. Nothing like the chupacabra legend made it out to be, but a new species nonetheless.

Any thoughts on my evolution idea from yesterday?

 

[Chasing Rainbows]

....And another thing (lol, sorry)

I've noticed my best wild animal sightings always come under exactly the same circumstances. Just before the sun breaks over the horizon after a punishing night march. When my muscles are screaming at me to stop and my feet are a patchwork of blisters.

I've had a roe deer doe and her fawn stroll out of the undergrowth les than 10 meters away from me and just stop and look under these conditions. No fear for her fawn, no panicked running away. She just stopped and looked at me with intense curiosity, and I did the same to her. It was a really beautiful moment of mutual recognition the three of us shared that morning, lasting for about a minute, and it touched my heart. Talk about a morale boost! After that her and her wee one casually strolled off into a area of freshly planted pine saplings, where I could see many more deer. I swear they were leaping around and playing with each other amongst the saplings in the pre-dawn light. Beautiful!

I'm sure animals instinctively know when a human is incapable of presenting any threat.

Does anybody fancy trying that out with a large predatory cat? (I'm laughing as I type that)

 

[21st century pict]

Heard a rumour today, of a large cat taking birds on an estate just south of Elgin .
Probably the Kellas Cat, large hybrid..
See images on goggle under Kellas Cat.......

 

[VANDEEN]

some years back there was a program on the telly about wild
anyway it is on film footage, i cant find it though....

Could it have been the BBC documentary "On the Trail of the Big Cat" from 22 nd May1986?

 

[northumbrian]

just take a multi pack of tuna with ye when ye gan camping , no pussy cats within smelling distance can resist the old tinned tuna !

 

[Chasing Rainbows]

Heard a rumour today, of a large cat taking birds on an estate just south of Elgin .
Probably the Kellas Cat, large hybrid..
See images on goggle under Kellas Cat.......

That's uncanny! When I look past the terrible taxidermy I see something somewhat similar to the animal I spotted skulking in the stubble cornfield. I didn't think too much of it though, not really ringing any bells. But when I see the image of the freshly shot Dufftown cat the dimensions are exactly the same, the familiarity striking. I immediately thought 'That's it, that's what I saw'!

I was between Aberlour and Grantown when I spotted that beasty. About 4-5 miles SSW from Ballindaloch (very rough estimate). I feel truly priviledged to have seen such a thing.

I feel a little invisible in this thread, none of my posts have been answered so far. I am really quite clued up on my biology though, and I think my evolution idea holds water.

Wild/feral hybrid cats slowly growing in size over the generations to fill the ecological niche left by the absence of large predators. Elusiveness being an obvious characteristic in a populous country, since individuals caught by humans don't get to pass genes onto the next generation.

 

[Soundmixer]

I work at the University of Aberdeen and I've seen the stuffed cat in person.
What I can say is that the one that my wife and I saw was waaaay bigger than that. Big enough to raise the hairs on the back of my neck! It was huge!
The one in the museum, and the one you saw CR, could definitely be mistaken for a panther. Well done on seeing something as rare as that.
Now I'm down in Angus I kind of miss the possibility of another sighting, but I never stop looking. Every time I drive north to go fishing my eyes are pealed.

I agree that evolution is filling a void, a void much needed since the demise of the wolf. Roe deer are out of control in the UK and are in desperate need of predation. This looks like a cunning way of doing it. Good old Mother Nature at her finest. Now if the panther genes get mixed in....

 

[Ivan...]

Well, it looks like all of the sightings of wild/feral/ unexplained cat type creatures have been spotted recently north of the border , as you know i am on Dartmoor and just personally speaking i have never seen even a domestic moggy , even on the fringes.
Over the years we have had , sightings of the beast of Bodmin or beast of Exmoor , accompanied by sketchy video and stills , but Dartmoor does not appear to have the same reports .
I am not saying that some kind of larger cat does not exist , but until i get believable stills , footage , or personal sight i am firmly on the sceptic bench .
We often get reports of stock being mutilated /killed but it usually put down to dogs , 28 sheep killed this year alone and 3 dogs shot .In my relative small area..

 

[Paganwolf]

AWwww come on you have the loch ness monster up there at least let us sotherners have a big cat ...

So out of all the walkers, campers, bird watchers, wild life watchers, photographers, film crews, hunters, poachers, farmers, game keepers, mountain climbers, park keepers, deer stalkers, police, army, air force, trackers, park rangers, botanists, mammal recorders, trail cams, ghillies, falconers, hunts men? Terrier men? sheppards? cattle men? green laners? bushcrafters etc etc etc etc ...... and two rubbish UK Big Cat sightings web sites on the net and theres still no conclusive evidence, is that right? none? no proper pictures or footage?
Even from Ray Mears whos seen three! and is an avid photographer and rarely goes out with out a film crew with him ? No? bit of scat any one? a proper kill not a fox, badger or a dog chewed lamb carcus? no, err a dead one? road kill? no? any body? .......... Aww damn it!!

....... I tell you what can we borrow Nessie to swim up the thames for a while

 

[Ivan...]

Hear Hear ! Paganwolf , i am firmly in your camp buddy , i nearly posted something similair, but could not be bothered .
On the than the nessie thing , i don't believe that either , here on Dartmoor we have untold ghost stories aswell and you've guessed it i have not seen one of those either .
I think its all a load of old chicken skin handbag contents, (my opinion of course)

 

[21st century pict]

On the than the nessie thing , i don't believe that either ,

I can tell you I’ve seen the lochness monster (possibly ) I was paddling up the loch one night and it was very dark when I spotted something on the surface between me and the shore ,not sure if it was a rock or a salty or nessie but I was off, Strange because I'm usually pretty brave when I’m drunk!!!
If someone asks me now if I believe in the monster I always think back to that moment because I certainly believed in her that night.

Well there’s at least one big pussy up here...

 

[outdoorpaddy]

There's actually quite a strong possibility that the lochness monster is just a very large and very old sturgeon, or a group of sturgeon, but happy to be corrected. I guess the big cat theory is something that is possible given the circumstances, but yet to be proven seeing as there is no really solid evidence ie. pictures, video content etc. But certainly enough to capture your imagination when you're out in the woods by yourself at night and something rustles in the bushes... lol
Great thread

outdoorpaddy

 

[JonathanD]

AWwww come on you have the loch ness monster up there at least let us sotherners have a big cat ...

So out of all the walkers, campers, bird watchers, wild life watchers, photographers, film crews, hunters, poachers, farmers, game keepers, mountain climbers, park keepers, deer stalkers, police, army, air force, trackers, park rangers, botanists, mammal recorders, trail cams, ghillies, falconers, hunts men? Terrier men? sheppards? cattle men? green laners? bushcrafters etc etc etc etc ...... and two rubbish UK Big Cat sightings web sites on the net and theres still no conclusive evidence, is that right? none? no proper pictures or footage?
Even from Ray Mears whos seen three! and is an avid photographer and rarely goes out with out a film crew with him ? No? bit of scat any one? a proper kill not a fox, badger or a dog chewed lamb carcus? no, err a dead one? road kill? no? any body? .......... Aww damn it!!

....... I tell you what can we borrow Nessie to swim up the thames for a while

How about a skull?

In situ...

Grouped bones...

 

[lannyman8]

That's uncanny! When I look past the terrible taxidermy I see something somewhat similar to the animal I spotted skulking in the stubble cornfield. I didn't think too much of it though, not really ringing any bells. But when I see the image of the freshly shot Dufftown cat the dimensions are exactly the same, the familiarity striking. I immediately thought 'That's it, that's what I saw'!

I was between Aberlour and Grantown when I spotted that beasty. About 4-5 miles SSW from Ballindaloch (very rough estimate). I feel truly priviledged to have seen such a thing.

I feel a little invisible in this thread, none of my posts have been answered so far. I am really quite clued up on my biology though, and I think my evolution idea holds water.

Wild/feral hybrid cats slowly growing in size over the generations to fill the ecological niche left by the absence of large predators. Elusiveness being an obvious characteristic in a populous country, since individuals caught by humans don't get to pass genes onto the next generation.

hey dude, what sort of size would this cat be compared to say the black panther type thing allot of people see...

 

[lannyman8]

Could it have been the BBC documentary "On the Trail of the Big Cat" from 22 nd May1986?

dont think it was that early dude, maybe early 90's to mid 90's could be wrong though, i know it was a one off program though....

 

[Mick w.]

Interesting point someone (can't remember who, sorry!) made earlier, about maybe animals instinctively know if you pose a threat or not. I've read that at watering holes in Africa and such places, herd animals are only spooked by predators when those predators are in hunting mode, otherwise they pretty much ignore them.
Someone is going to tell me I'm talking out of my behind, now...

 

[blacktimberwolf]

Someone is going to tell me I'm talking out of my behind, now...

Not at all, some prey animals can tell when predators are looking for a meal or just passing through......

 

[Chasing Rainbows]

hey dude, what sort of size would this cat be compared to say the black panther type thing allot of people see...

At last someone speaks to me! Thanks lannyman!

Certainly not as big as a black panther. As I said before I didn;t have any solid points of perspective to make an accurate measurement of size, but I'm not an angler, so I'm not given to exagerarating the size of what I saw.

Here's my description: Imagine a runt of a black labrador litter at about 1 year old, this was the size. To begin with I think it was stalking something, moving slowly with body pressed flat in the corn stubble. once it noticed me and started moving a little quicker, It had long legs and a sort of effortless bounding trot, not all that dissmiliar to a domestic cat....but noticably different nonetheless not at all impeded by the corn stubble that a moggy would normally pick it's way through carefully (although that could have been motivated by a desire to get away from me at speed). The trunk of the body *seemed* a little more elongated than a domestic cat, but I can't be sure of that because I never got a view in profile. The neck of the beast certainly seemed slightly longer than a moggy, and it's face looked to have a more pronounced muzzle.

I feel I should stress this was a sighting lasting only for about 15 seconds and at a fair range. But it created a great impression on me, and as I said, when I seen that image of the dead Dufftown cat it seemed so familiar.

I'd be happy to accept it was just a tomcat of epic proportions, but I'd just as easliy accept it was something new to science.

 

[Siberianfury]

i definatly beleive they are here, but whats interesting is that people report big cats, so panthers, which are effectivly melanistic (black) leopards, however melanisum is a recessive gene, so even two menanistic animals are unlikley to produce melanistic ofspring.

the biggest cats in the country that are breeding are most likley to be pumas, which is what i reckon JD's skull was, as its definatly not of the panthera genus in my opinion.

oh and JP, i will prove that they exist, and yetis, and ghosts and unicorns and fairys in my sock draw