Best knife steel for prying and toughness/hardness?

[Origin Knives]

Hi.
It is my opinion that in general production knives can suffer a bit when it comes to the heat treatment. This can lead to some of them not performing as well as others. In addition to that big batch commercial heat treatment will be a generic, general purpose HT. They will not have spent the time that some custom makers do “tweaking” things to get the best out of a particular steel as they simply don’t have the time to do so.
To me, this is one of the reasons why custom knives can perform better in many cases.
a good HT can help the performance of an average steel and a poor HT can downright ruin any steel.
Other important factors to consider are the way the blade has been ground and the type of edge it has, these can have significant impact on the performance of a knife.
That being said, I’ve had good results with O1, N690 and Becut for toughness along with excellent edge retention.
Hope that helps.

 

[WittyUsername]

Bit tougher than S30V, which had/has a reputation (well founded or not) for being a bit chippy.

BTW - have an ask on Blade Forums and Bushcraft USA ... bit more knifey there than here. You'll get a broader sense and many more suggestions of makers etc.

BTW, BTW - have you looked at the Roselli Leuku? It is something I keep thinking that I might buy again

Thanks. In my hunt for this ‘perfect chopping, batoning, pry knife’ I found this...

Benchmade Leuku 202 bushcraft knife

Handle/blade: Santoprene/CPM 3V Blade length: 13.2 cm Weight: 150 grams

uk.knivesandtools.eu

It’s not really big enough but I’m going to use it until I finally decide upon/save up for this dream knife. That price seems so good for a knife of that quality. The youtube reviews were really impressive.

 

[WittyUsername]

There is something of a problem using Charpy or Izod data for evaluating material toughness in knives, the test pieces are usually quite thick because plane strain conditions are wanted but thin knives spend most of their lives in plane stress. Depending on the material the order on fracture toughness could be different also fracture itself propagates differently.

I have never seen testing done on the knife thickness scale, would be interesting to see the results.

Yeah. That’s a fair shout. That’s why I quite liked that Miller Bros youtube clip of them absolutely annihilating one of their own 3v blades. You know that treatment’s been perfected.

@Origin Knives Is there a downside to smaller, custom knife makers, too? I’m just wondering whether some people wouldn’t have the equipment or knowledge to perfect a heat treatment. I think large, well known brands are probably a happy medium. You know you’re getting a certain standard, even if the very best custom makers are better.

 

[Murat_Cyp]

Thats a nice choice and I am considering to buy it's smaller brother (puukko) for myself as a crossover knife between a whittler knife and large bushcraft knife. That being said, do not expect much chopping performance from it due to the lack of mass.

 

[Origin Knives]

Yeah. That’s a fair shout. That’s why I quite liked that Miller Bros youtube clip of them absolutely annihilating one of their own 3v blades. You know that treatment’s been perfected.

@Origin Knives Is there a downside to smaller, custom knife makers, too? I’m just wondering whether some people wouldn’t have the equipment or knowledge to perfect a heat treatment. I think large, well known brands are probably a happy medium. You know you’re getting a certain standard, even if the very best custom makers are better.

@WittyUsername
That depends on what criterion you are using to define your knife makers.
Due to the popularity of the practice of bushcraft along with general interest in knives, it seems like every two minutes there is someone new posting pics of knives they have made.
I appreciate that everyone has to take their first steps on their chosen path, even the recognised masters of their craft did that. The point is though, that knocking out a few blades in your shed doesn’t make you a knife maker. On the other hand some very good makers work out of sheds.
The difference is in the depth of knowledge and level of craftsmanship. If someone has spent the time learning their craft, making their mistakes, and using them to gain understanding. Then you should expect a quality product from them.
if it’s “my mate - - - - - has been making knives for weeks now, they’re really good“ then yes you have a good point there.

 

[Murat_Cyp]

Testing the Edge Retention of 48 Knife Steels - Knife Steel Nerds

I tested the edge retention of 48 knife steels using the same knife design and sharpening. Which steels cut the longest? Which are the most balanced?

knifesteelnerds.com

This article will tell you everything you need to know about steels to make an informed decsision. There are few toughness charts towards the end of the article. The author of this article is a metalurgist with a PhD and he is a specialist in knife steels.

 

[marcoruhland]

White River Firecraft 7 Leather Sheath

Ultiem survival mes gemaakt van premium materialen

www.mesenzo.com

What’s S35vn like in terms of toughness?

i like s35vn steel - use some knives for outdoor/ bushcraft/ hunting/ survival and edc:

coldsteel sr1 as backup

tops knives camp-creek - in general i do nt like tops but this ist very interesting for me because the blade is german (12cm long) and french legal (4mm thick)! this is nessesarry if you cross the open boarder - more a hunting knife great large handle

whiteriver fc35-pro in black as edc neck and in orange for outdoor one of my best (small) knives overall - sharp - good handle works great with their firesteel

so i ordered also the fc7 in hope of the last/ best (non legal) outdoor knife (under 300€) but for me (gloves size 11) this handle is for children - too short too small - why ?!

medford is great but they are overpriced - i have the chance to test some of them the bonfire is nice but i do not like the finger whole infront of the guard but the tbd (and the smaller raider) is the real rambo knife but if you lost one of them then you will cry

so after 25 years of waiting for a full tang fällkniven my (non legal) large knife is the new f1xb (161mm/ 6.3" and 7mm thick! this is a breaching tool) and yes if it is very cold up to -50°c a laminated steel has some advantages but that was not the reason for me to buy - in general the lam cos steel would not my first choice but in combination with that black (hrc83!!) coating that works great no rust or any scratching after one year of using - great job and for that price (330€) it is the toughest knife i have ever testet over 35 years! - only a small upgrade with a new os kydex

mr

 

[WittyUsername]

Thats a nice choice and I am considering to buy it's smaller brother (puukko) for myself as a crossover knife between a whittler knife and large bushcraft knife. That being said, do not expect much chopping performance from it due to the lack of mass.

Yeah, it’s like the ‘lite’ version of what I’ll end up getting. It looks like a decent amount of 3V for the price though.

 

[WittyUsername]

Testing the Edge Retention of 48 Knife Steels - Knife Steel Nerds

I tested the edge retention of 48 knife steels using the same knife design and sharpening. Which steels cut the longest? Which are the most balanced?

knifesteelnerds.com

This article will tell you everything you need to know about steels to make an informed decsision. There are few toughness charts towards the end of the article. The author of this article is a metalurgist with a PhD and he is a specialist in knife steels.

Perfect, I’ll nerd out before bed. Thanks very much.

 

[WittyUsername]

i like s35vn steel - use some knives for outdoor/ bushcraft/ hunting/ survival and edc:

coldsteel sr1 as backup

tops knives camp-creek - in general i do nt like tops but this ist very interesting for me because the blade is german (12cm long) and french legal (4mm thick)! this is nessesarry if you cross the open boarder - more a hunting knife great large handle

whiteriver fc35-pro in black as edc neck and in orange for outdoor one of my best (small) knives overall - sharp - good handle works great with their firesteel

so i ordered also the fc7 in hope of the last/ best (non legal) outdoor knife (under 300€) but for me (gloves size 11) this handle is for children - too short too small - why ?!

medford is great but they are overpriced - i have the chance to test some of them the bonfire is nice but i do not like the finger whole infront of the guard but the tbd (and the smaller raider) is the real rambo knife but if you lost one of them then you will cry

so after 25 years of waiting for a full tang fällkniven my (non legal) large knife is the new f1xb (161mm/ 6.3" and 7mm thick! this is a breaching tool) and yes if it is very cold up to -50°c a laminated steel has some advantages but that was not the reason for me to buy - in general the lam cos steel would not my first choice but in combination with that black (hrc83!!) coating that works great no rust or any scratching after one year of using - great job and for that price (330€) it is the toughest knife i have ever testet over 35 years! - only a small upgrade with a new os kydex

mr

I just bought an F1 in Elmax. It’s a lovely bit of kit.

It’s a shame the White River has handle issues. My hands are a size 9 though so maybe it’d be OK for me. Have you had any toughness issues with your s35vn blades?

The Medford Bonfire is definitely overpriced, but it’s still my favourite of all the blades I’ve looked into so far, and I’ve been browsing on and off for a couple of weeks now.

 

[Billy-o]

I just bought an F1 in Elmax. It’s a lovely bit of kit.

Pic please

 

[marcoruhland]

...My hands are a size 9 though so maybe it’d be OK for me. Have you had any toughness issues with your s35vn blades...

try it but it is too small for any normal hand
i have some problems with "toughness" using a knife because the first quality is cutting so there is a difference between a knife and an axe it is not possible to get both

so my best hunting knife is the benchmade altitude s90v 2mm thick best slicer (the new mountain-skinner should be better 14° angle! that works great but the handle is too small for me for a knife that size so the altitude stay with me and has the option using as a backup bootknife)

and on the other side my toughest "knife" is the eichhorn abs-ii more a small breaching tool no tip that can broke and no problem to use in combination with an hammer (2kg) to destroy stonework

so s35vn is more a steel for a good (cutting) knife and in general no problems with batoning normal wood if it is thick (over 4mm) enough but not a good steel for a sword (get in contact with other steel or stones) or a breaching tool

mr

 

[WittyUsername]

@WittyUsername
That depends on what criterion you are using to define your knife makers.
Due to the popularity of the practice of bushcraft along with general interest in knives, it seems like every two minutes there is someone new posting pics of knives they have made.
I appreciate that everyone has to take their first steps on their chosen path, even the recognised masters of their craft did that. The point is though, that knocking out a few blades in your shed doesn’t make you a knife maker. On the other hand some very good makers work out of sheds.
The difference is in the depth of knowledge and level of craftsmanship. If someone has spent the time learning their craft, making their mistakes, and using them to gain understanding. Then you should expect a quality product from them.
if it’s “my mate - - - - - has been making knives for weeks now, they’re really good“ then yes you have a good point there.

Yeah, as someone new to this stuff I find it a little foggy trying to define the good custom guys and smaller companies.

 

[WittyUsername]

try it but it is too small for any normal hand
i have some problems with "toughness" using a knife because the first quality is cutting so there is a difference between a knife and an axe it is not possible to get both

so my best hunting knife is the benchmade altitude s90v 2mm thick best slicer (the new mountain-skinner should be better 14° angle! that works great but the handle is too small for me for a knife that size so the altitude stay with me and has the option using as a backup bootknife)

and on the other side my toughest "knife" is the eichhorn abs-ii more a small breaching tool no tip that can broke and no problem to use in combination with an hammer (2kg) to destroy stonework

so s35vn is more a steel for a good (cutting) knife and in general no problems with batoning normal wood if it is thick (over 4mm) enough but not a good steel for sword (get in contact with other steel or stones) or a breaching tool

mr

Thanks for the reply, and I really appreciate all the links you add to your posts. They’re great for someone like me (an idiot).

 

[WittyUsername]

Pic please

How do I add a pic from my photo gallery on my phone? On other forums I use it gives me an option to do that.

Edit (I’ve got no idea if this’ll work):

https://imgur.com/a/AVoXkHI

 

[WittyUsername]

Did that work for everyone? I’ve never used Imgur before.


Hardly an iconic scenery picture, I just slapped the knife on a table. Feel free to use it as a screensaver.

---

 

[C_Claycomb]

I can see it. Well done

 

[WittyUsername]

I can see it. Well done

Cheers.

 

[marcoruhland]

so here is that miller bros blade video from 2015 m-8 s35vn version it is tough enough even for some cheaper a36 steel

mr

 

[WittyUsername]

so here is that miller bros blade video from 2015 m-8 s35vn version it is tough enough even for some cheaper a36 steel

mr

Most of the charts I’ve looked at, and the info from this thread, say that S35vn is a lot less tough than 3V. It’s pretty close to Elmax, which I already have in 4 knives.

That one looks pretty tough though! It looks like they know how to heat treat their steels.