I've no issues with culling, its needed...look at the deer problems we have, but I've no time whatsoever for trophy hunting...the phrase 'boys with toys' springs to mind when they are mentioned. Just my opinion and it ain't going to change.
BCB ''Ultimate'' Survival Kit?
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I've no issues with culling, its needed...look at the deer problems we have, but I've no time whatsoever for trophy hunting...the phrase 'boys with toys' springs to mind when they are mentioned. Just my opinion and it ain't going to change.
But there will ALWAYS be those that wish to do that do you not think? regardless of if you or I agree with it or not , at least with controlling and creating a structured framework you can attempt to control it and manage it. If one sanctioned and controlled culling can lead to the financed protection of 5 isn't from a conservation point of view worth considering?
I don't have definite answers but it seems its worth a rationale discussion.
( Mods - anychance of separating this thread? Apologies to the OP. )
This from the man advocating the North American grand slam?
Wealth has little bearing on someone's ability to shoot accurately under pressure.
This is a deep subject and very emotive. I'm happy to discuss this rationally. However there is a name for folk who have opinions they are not prepared to change.
Man has existed for 200,000 years. We have lived as modern man with the majority enjoying someone in the middle to do the wet work on food for only 100 years or so. You do not erase 200,000 years of breeding in a century.
Hunting is in some people's blood. More perhaps than you would give credit and sometimes it takes very little to expose the instinct. You can no more ask someone to change this in their breeding than you can ask a gay person to be straight.
So there is a demand for hunting. That's not going to change.
A farmer breeds animals for financial gain. They protect and nurture a heard, breeding in positive traits and avoiding negative. If there was no gain for the farmer this would not happen.
Trophy hunting is conducted on the same basis. Either the state or private individuals control a program of conservation or husbandry that nurtures a group of animals for financial gain on a given piece of land. Whether for meat or trophy, frankly dead is dead. Carcass or carcass byproduct as primary valued product has very little meaning to the dead animal.
How large or charismatic that animal is in either case should have less value in the morality of that business but it clearly does. In the case of Cecil having a name caused a world wide outpouring of condemnation unlike the other dead animals and human beings killed enmasse illegally in that part of the world.
It is often essential that the Alpha Male in a confined program of breeding is culled. You don't want in breeding and you need to maintain a balance of genetics. Selling off such a trophy can fund the continuity of a programme or prop up a dodgy regime with hard currency.
Cecil however was part of a scientific study which has been ruined by greed. There is no positive spin that can be put on the actions of this man or his outfitter. The law will catch up and the dentists life is in ruins.
Condemning hunters in general is plainly wrong. In the UK we need to cull about 50% of the deer, pigeon, and rabbit population every year to maintain healthy populations.
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I'm not promoting anything, you said.
So I posted that up to prove that you don't know what your talking about. Your the Quote "hobby" shooter not me.
Really! a bow complex, two sticks and a bit of string.
Sorry TD Whopping tangent entirely my fault for suggesting including a Bow String in your Survival Kit.
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Hey! No problem from my corner - Not even my thread!! Im enjoying the discussion on all levels.
Not looking for a row here. I have asked you several times where are you going that you feel a bowstring would be a useful addition to a survival kit? My point was to keep any kit purposeful and not descend into the realms of fantasy or fill a kit with loads of useless tat at the expense of items pertinent to the environment you are travelling in.
Grizzly are not shot with 2 sticks and a piece of string! Yes, I very much know what I'm talking about and you don't know much about dangerous game. Few do in the UK. Come sit round my campfire some evening and I will happily explain what happens when your life depends on fine motor control.
I don't know where you are quoting from. I expect those people who genuinely know me on here would find reference to me as a hobby shooter amusing.
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This thread is not only going pretty far off topic, but even the off-topic subject is getting pretty confused.
It started with the suggestion that a bow string be included in a survival kit. I think that this would be a waste of time anywhere. I used to make and shoot my own self bows, stalked small game with an air-rifle (same sort of ranges a basic bow works over) and had a great deal of interest in US bow hunting having family there and friends that hunted. A bow is easier to make than the arrow is. Bow hunting isn't legal in the UK, so pointless addition in the UK. Active hunting is a very poor use of time and energy if you have become lost. Passive hunting, where you carry a weapon as you go on the off-chance of a shot is better, but a bow and a set of functional arrows is still a big investment in time and energy. I have yet to meet anyone (other than bushmen in Namibia) who maintains the skill level to reliably stalk, hit and kill game using a bow and arrows that they fashioned in a day or so out in the woods. I know such people exist, but I have never met one, so I hope I can be forgiven for thinking that this scenario is more fantasy than reality. The bushmen were not all that accurate with their bows, relying on very good stalking and poison.
The conversation then turned to dangerous game, and a confused mix of hunting and hunted. This is a big step away from the reason to pack a bow string in a survival kit. Even with skills, and an expert level bow and arrows, you would not generally go trying to stick an arrow in a large predator for food. This makes no sense outside of Hollywood films. Sticking a field made arrow from a field made bow into a charging griz is a terrible idea, even if you have the skill and nerve not to miss. The gear is very unlikely to have the power and strength to penetrate, so IS more likely to just annoy. There is a huge difference between stalking an unsuspecting bear and planting a 600grain shaft from a 60lb recurve through its chest from a good broadside angle, to poking one head on with a 400gr dogwood sucker tipped with chipped stone shot from a low efficiency 35lb stick bow.
Bows and arrows are complex compared to slings, spears and clubs. They are more complicated to make and require more skill to use well enough to be effective, especially under stress.
Most of us can go a good long while without eating, a lot less without water or shelter, so kits should address those needs. Fish hooks can be set as unmanned traps, no additional energy, and very little skill although in the UK though I can't think of anywhere that you would need to catch fish to survive. At sea, its another matter! Worth using stainless hooks?Snares need to be set in numbers and packing enough wire for just one or two won't keep you fed. Better to not eat and let your body adjust.
Anyone read Mors' booklet on survival kits? his fits in a big billy can and is not pocket size, but it allows for you to have shelter, fire and water in deeply cold boreal forest. Kits need to be tailored for where you might need them, which is the problem with commercial kits which are as much about selling as saving.
I know someone who used to work for BCB and what they said about them would make me extremely reluctant to put faith in any kit they put together. As an example, at the time he worked there, the potassium permanganate used in kits was fire retardant to aid packaging processing, while being marketed as being suitable for fire starting.
It started with the suggestion that a bow string be included in a survival kit. I think that this would be a waste of time anywhere. I used to make and shoot my own self bows, stalked small game with an air-rifle (same sort of ranges a basic bow works over) and had a great deal of interest in US bow hunting having family there and friends that hunted. A bow is easier to make than the arrow is. Bow hunting isn't legal in the UK, so pointless addition in the UK. Active hunting is a very poor use of time and energy if you have become lost. Passive hunting, where you carry a weapon as you go on the off-chance of a shot is better, but a bow and a set of functional arrows is still a big investment in time and energy. I have yet to meet anyone (other than bushmen in Namibia) who maintains the skill level to reliably stalk, hit and kill game using a bow and arrows that they fashioned in a day or so out in the woods. I know such people exist, but I have never met one, so I hope I can be forgiven for thinking that this scenario is more fantasy than reality. The bushmen were not all that accurate with their bows, relying on very good stalking and poison.
The conversation then turned to dangerous game, and a confused mix of hunting and hunted. This is a big step away from the reason to pack a bow string in a survival kit. Even with skills, and an expert level bow and arrows, you would not generally go trying to stick an arrow in a large predator for food. This makes no sense outside of Hollywood films. Sticking a field made arrow from a field made bow into a charging griz is a terrible idea, even if you have the skill and nerve not to miss. The gear is very unlikely to have the power and strength to penetrate, so IS more likely to just annoy. There is a huge difference between stalking an unsuspecting bear and planting a 600grain shaft from a 60lb recurve through its chest from a good broadside angle, to poking one head on with a 400gr dogwood sucker tipped with chipped stone shot from a low efficiency 35lb stick bow.
Bows and arrows are complex compared to slings, spears and clubs. They are more complicated to make and require more skill to use well enough to be effective, especially under stress.
Most of us can go a good long while without eating, a lot less without water or shelter, so kits should address those needs. Fish hooks can be set as unmanned traps, no additional energy, and very little skill although in the UK though I can't think of anywhere that you would need to catch fish to survive. At sea, its another matter! Worth using stainless hooks?Snares need to be set in numbers and packing enough wire for just one or two won't keep you fed. Better to not eat and let your body adjust.
Anyone read Mors' booklet on survival kits? his fits in a big billy can and is not pocket size, but it allows for you to have shelter, fire and water in deeply cold boreal forest. Kits need to be tailored for where you might need them, which is the problem with commercial kits which are as much about selling as saving.
I know someone who used to work for BCB and what they said about them would make me extremely reluctant to put faith in any kit they put together. As an example, at the time he worked there, the potassium permanganate used in kits was fire retardant to aid packaging processing, while being marketed as being suitable for fire starting.
He also points out the myriad of additional uses that a cooking pot can have, from digging for roots, digging snow, a smudge pot to keep insects at bay, a kit carrier, a water carrier etc. etc.
So what are you gona do sit and stare at a fishing hook all day,You don't set a rabbit snare then stare at it all night. Me I would rather have a bit of string in my ST so if the **** I could be a bit more proactive about survival. there's plenty people here who seam quite successful with a sling shot and have flatbands or tubes in there kit for just this purpose.
large predator in the UK ? I don't want to do a large predator, I know who has been watching to much Hollywood "stalking an unsuspecting bear" Get a Grip Man! I was thinking more about taking a rabbit with a blunt. so is it OK if I stick one in my kit ? just in case, Is that OK with all the elitist shooters around here.
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Hey loon , how ya doin the day.
Well blow me, All this elitist patter, because I nicked the mint cake oot yer tin.
Well you know what they say about empty drums.
PS, comparing Gay People to shooting animals, hummm, not good, name for that to.
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Not wasting energy by sitting and staring at a line is the smart move if you are in "a no real chance of imminent rescue type situation".
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Yeah , on a nice sunny day perhaps, but sit there for how long , Survival's not about sitting on your #### all day. maybe you think it is, You can bet Alexander Selkirk didn't just sit around for four years.
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Well if it's a bit blustery and wet you'd be better off getting your shelter and firewood sorted. Really, waste as little energy as you can, be that to heat loss or pointlessly wandering around looking for something to shoot, you'll live longer.
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Ah! you added a bit after I'd replied.
Maybe you can expand on the type of survival situation you are seeing in your minds eye, where are you and how did you get there type of thing and how the BCB kit might factor into your 'surviving' that situation.
For most who might find (or have found) themselves in a tricky spot, sitting on their backside for much of the day (after having removed themselves from danger, found or a made a shelter, sourced water etcetera is what has kept them alive.
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Ah. You know what happens when you assume? LOL.
The reality of taking even small game with an improvised bow is going to disappoint.
In the UK and near Europe there are a lot more important things that could keep you or get you out of trouble. In remote Scandanavia, Northern Canada and Alaska where you can really get lost for months then get trained and take a rifle. This will be for defence primarily but you could obviously hunt with it if in trouble. If you go as an expedition group then a group leader should have this covered.
My personal kit is always built round a cooking/ boiling vessel. I think a tobacco tin is really of limited use, though I admit I use them to pack my meds, another for tinder, another for bits and bobs.
Coming back on topic for the original post if you buy the BCB kit then use it as a basis for what you might need in the environment you intend to travel in. As a civilian this is not SERE related. Recognise your individual needs and pack accordingly.
As a glasses wearer these days remember a spare pair. Stumbling round half blind for want of a pair you broke or lost could be a real issue.
Small fish hooks can be used to catch birds and small game too.
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The reality of taking even small game with an improvised bow is going to disappoint.
In the UK and near Europe there are a lot more important things that could keep you or get you out of trouble. In remote Scandanavia, Northern Canada and Alaska where you can really get lost for months then get trained and take a rifle. This will be for defence primarily but you could obviously hunt with it if in trouble. If you go as an expedition group then a group leader should have this covered.
My personal kit is always built round a cooking/ boiling vessel. I think a tobacco tin is really of limited use, though I admit I use them to pack my meds, another for tinder, another for bits and bobs.
Coming back on topic for the original post if you buy the BCB kit then use it as a basis for what you might need in the environment you intend to travel in. As a civilian this is not SERE related. Recognise your individual needs and pack accordingly.
As a glasses wearer these days remember a spare pair. Stumbling round half blind for want of a pair you broke or lost could be a real issue.
Small fish hooks can be used to catch birds and small game too.
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21st Century Pict.
Please dial it back a bit. You are free to carry what you like, but if you promote it as a good idea, and back up your view with additional claims and scenarios that other people disagree with, you should expect that they will offer counter points.
Where do you imagine you are going to be where you would use this bow for survival?
Given that most survival fishing methods aren't legal in the UK either, this for info only. You can put out set lines/trot lines with multiple hooks and leave them while you do other things. Yes, you would do the same with a snare line, but the fish hooks and line for them takes less space in the kit and in most places stands a higher chance of success of taking something.
Sitting and watching a baited hook works. Sitting and watching a single snare is less likely to work.
I didn't mention elastic bands, but they are a much better idea than a bow string. A slingshot/catapult is a lot easier to make than a bow, and the stones to use can be picked up more readily than you can make arrows. Easier to practice with too.
Stay safe
Please dial it back a bit. You are free to carry what you like, but if you promote it as a good idea, and back up your view with additional claims and scenarios that other people disagree with, you should expect that they will offer counter points.
Where do you imagine you are going to be where you would use this bow for survival?
Given that most survival fishing methods aren't legal in the UK either, this for info only. You can put out set lines/trot lines with multiple hooks and leave them while you do other things. Yes, you would do the same with a snare line, but the fish hooks and line for them takes less space in the kit and in most places stands a higher chance of success of taking something.
Sitting and watching a baited hook works. Sitting and watching a single snare is less likely to work.
I didn't mention elastic bands, but they are a much better idea than a bow string. A slingshot/catapult is a lot easier to make than a bow, and the stones to use can be picked up more readily than you can make arrows. Easier to practice with too.
Stay safe
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