BBC4 10pm tonight Handmade in Japan
- Thread starter Aliwren
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Aye Up Aliwren,
Good call.
That may well be interesting after the programme that I saw a week or so back about what happened to all the Japanese samurai swords at the end of World War Two!
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Good call.
That may well be interesting after the programme that I saw a week or so back about what happened to all the Japanese samurai swords at the end of World War Two!
:The vast majority of those were shoddily stamped out and of very, very, low quality.
But if I can catch BBC 4 over the computer I will enjoy watching that!
But if I can catch BBC 4 over the computer I will enjoy watching that!
I'm going to record it. The summary of the program indicates is the first part of the three episode series. The additional text says "Samurai Sword: series looking at traditional Japanese crafts. On Kyushu a family of Samurai sword makers continue a tradition their ancestors began nearly 3 centuries ago."
I think it sounds good. Thanks for the heads-up
I think it sounds good. Thanks for the heads-up
It was interesting, but there are better videos on Youtube.
I did like old granddad, sitting and supervising between his naps.....
I did like old granddad, sitting and supervising between his naps.....
Just watched the recording. It was a good programme and very interesting, even though they didnt give too much away
There's a real reverence in the making of the sword, because the Japanese see them as spritual items. You can see why they are so incredibly expensive, but also why they last. Every step of the making was done by hand, including the final sharpening - hand ground on various stones - 8 hours a day, 6 days a week, for 2 months! It was really interesting to find out that the side profile curvature is almost entirely created by the quenching of the hot blade, direct from the fire to the water trough.
Next week, it is the making of Kimonos.
There's a real reverence in the making of the sword, because the Japanese see them as spritual items. You can see why they are so incredibly expensive, but also why they last. Every step of the making was done by hand, including the final sharpening - hand ground on various stones - 8 hours a day, 6 days a week, for 2 months! It was really interesting to find out that the side profile curvature is almost entirely created by the quenching of the hot blade, direct from the fire to the water trough.
Next week, it is the making of Kimonos.
Aye Up,
Janne - yes, I appreciate that most of those swords were of the mass produced variety but amongst them must have been some real gems. I wonder who ended up with them?
Re the process, too right there wasn't much given away.
Putting the spiritual and decorative aspects aside, I would have been interested in how a sword made by hand as shown compared for instance to swords made elsewhere e.g. to a British cavalry sabre and to a modern day, mass produced version of the samurai using current steels - machine or hand finished. Does taking so long to make the sword really give a technically superior result?
Janne - yes, I appreciate that most of those swords were of the mass produced variety but amongst them must have been some real gems. I wonder who ended up with them?
Re the process, too right there wasn't much given away.
Putting the spiritual and decorative aspects aside, I would have been interested in how a sword made by hand as shown compared for instance to swords made elsewhere e.g. to a British cavalry sabre and to a modern day, mass produced version of the samurai using current steels - machine or hand finished. Does taking so long to make the sword really give a technically superior result?
I believe many officers in the Japanese Imperial Army were of a higher social class and used own swords. They had "proper" handcrafted swords. The officers of lower classes had issued cheapo swords.
The US soldiers took home a huge number of swords, both quality and junk. They come up on actions a lot today.
In the programme I observed something that puzzled me. In the beginning they used a smallish lump of the Iron Sand material (Tamahagne). Some minutes in when they were hammering, pieces fell off ( saw two or three pieces falling off)
Then, they added bits of a more industrial looking steel ( when they stacked them). Also when they worked it they added (dipped/rolled) the main piece in powdered steel. So more "other" steel added.
In my 'research" I have read that the Iron Sands produce a very poor quality steel, takes forever to get rid of the impurities, then a very complex process to make into steel using charcoal. But this was historically one of the few ways they got Iron in Japan.
Even the Japanese handcrafted knives crafted today use modern steels of various grades. Very few are using Tamahagane for the core/ cutting edge
My and my son's knives, made by a small family that trade under the name Moritaka Hamono, use two grades of the edge steel, Aogami #2 and Aogami Super.
I am a Japanofile.
I have seen untold TV programmes and read truckloads of books about the Japanese culture, about most things. One thing I have always wondered about is the "10 year learning"
10 years to leant to make Sushi. 10 years to learn to make noodles. 10 years to learn to make blades. It is always 10 years.
I wonder if they use an expression - translated o '10 years' , to say 'a long time' or similar?
Are they better than a mass produced blade/sword?
I own German and Swedish kitchen knives. I own Japanese kitchen knives. Three brands of hand made ones, then 4 brands of factory made ones.
Steels from Sandviken, Solingen, Aogami #2, Aogami Super, Blue #2, White #1 and #2. VG10.
A couple of S/s Damascus and carbon Damascus.
Function? if well sharpened/honed - no difference. Zero. Zilch. They all cut well.
The handmade ones are more reactive than the European carbon knives I think.
The main difference is in the shape of the blades, the Japanese traditional shapes have a more 'narrow' use.
The main difference is in the 'feel'. Tradition. Knowing a guy is spending his life bashing bits of steel using a hammer and anvil. To create the best he can, for me.
Yeah, I am a kitchen knife nerd. Totally. I even travel with a kitchen knife in the main luggage. Wife understands my addiction. Because of her understanding we are still married!
If anybody is interested in things Japanese there is a superb series called Japanology you can watch on Youtube. the earlier programmes are better imho.
The US soldiers took home a huge number of swords, both quality and junk. They come up on actions a lot today.
In the programme I observed something that puzzled me. In the beginning they used a smallish lump of the Iron Sand material (Tamahagne). Some minutes in when they were hammering, pieces fell off ( saw two or three pieces falling off)
Then, they added bits of a more industrial looking steel ( when they stacked them). Also when they worked it they added (dipped/rolled) the main piece in powdered steel. So more "other" steel added.
In my 'research" I have read that the Iron Sands produce a very poor quality steel, takes forever to get rid of the impurities, then a very complex process to make into steel using charcoal. But this was historically one of the few ways they got Iron in Japan.
Even the Japanese handcrafted knives crafted today use modern steels of various grades. Very few are using Tamahagane for the core/ cutting edge
My and my son's knives, made by a small family that trade under the name Moritaka Hamono, use two grades of the edge steel, Aogami #2 and Aogami Super.
I am a Japanofile.
I have seen untold TV programmes and read truckloads of books about the Japanese culture, about most things. One thing I have always wondered about is the "10 year learning"
10 years to leant to make Sushi. 10 years to learn to make noodles. 10 years to learn to make blades. It is always 10 years.
I wonder if they use an expression - translated o '10 years' , to say 'a long time' or similar?
Are they better than a mass produced blade/sword?
I own German and Swedish kitchen knives. I own Japanese kitchen knives. Three brands of hand made ones, then 4 brands of factory made ones.
Steels from Sandviken, Solingen, Aogami #2, Aogami Super, Blue #2, White #1 and #2. VG10.
A couple of S/s Damascus and carbon Damascus.
Function? if well sharpened/honed - no difference. Zero. Zilch. They all cut well.
The handmade ones are more reactive than the European carbon knives I think.
The main difference is in the shape of the blades, the Japanese traditional shapes have a more 'narrow' use.
The main difference is in the 'feel'. Tradition. Knowing a guy is spending his life bashing bits of steel using a hammer and anvil. To create the best he can, for me.
Yeah, I am a kitchen knife nerd. Totally. I even travel with a kitchen knife in the main luggage. Wife understands my addiction. Because of her understanding we are still married!
If anybody is interested in things Japanese there is a superb series called Japanology you can watch on Youtube. the earlier programmes are better imho.
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Back to the BBC Four programme - I enjoyed it. A really good insight into the creation and enough to see and watch for both those who know nothing of the subject but also those of us with more knowledge. It's fascinating just watching good craftspeople at work and my only criticism is that there wasn't more of that but I understand that for many it will be of little interest repeating the process over and over and it's only half an hour to edit it into.
It's good to see a follow on from BBC Four's earlier triplicate of 'Handmade' programmes and I hope we see more trios from them going through other nations.
It's good to see a follow on from BBC Four's earlier triplicate of 'Handmade' programmes and I hope we see more trios from them going through other nations.
I really enjoyed this. I find less and less to watch on normal TV, so this was a change from you tube.
Janne. With you being a Japanese kitchen knife geek. What do you think of the Global knife brand?
I got a set of them around year 2000 and my dad did too after all the hype. After initially trying to convince ourselves they were great, we both decided in the end they weren't very good and I sold mine. I've now got a hotch potch of old carbon steel knives from junk shops and my favourite big chopper from a cheap hardware store from a suburb in Taipei.
Janne. With you being a Japanese kitchen knife geek. What do you think of the Global knife brand?
I got a set of them around year 2000 and my dad did too after all the hype. After initially trying to convince ourselves they were great, we both decided in the end they weren't very good and I sold mine. I've now got a hotch potch of old carbon steel knives from junk shops and my favourite big chopper from a cheap hardware store from a suburb in Taipei.
JamPan,
It isn't fair to tempt someone to break the forum rules about swearing like that
If someone says they like Japanese kitchen knives, they do not mean Global 
It isn't fair to tempt someone to break the forum rules about swearing like that
If someone says they like Japanese kitchen knives, they do not mean Global My sis owns Global. I had two and I gave them to her.
I do not like the handles
I do not like the price of a factory made product to be this high, even as good as Global.
I find them over hyped.
They did have lots of problems with breaking join between the handle and blade if I am not mistaken?
The steel is good.
I do not like the handles
I do not like the price of a factory made product to be this high, even as good as Global.
I find them over hyped.
They did have lots of problems with breaking join between the handle and blade if I am not mistaken?
The steel is good.
I really enjoyed this. I find less and less to watch on normal TV, so this was a change from you tube.
Janne. With you being a Japanese kitchen knife geek. What do you think of the Global knife brand?
I got a set of them around year 2000 and my dad did too after all the hype. After initially trying to convince ourselves they were great, we both decided in the end they weren't very good and I sold mine. I've now got a hotch potch of old carbon steel knives from junk shops and my favourite big chopper from a cheap hardware store from a suburb in Taipei.
Although it may not be of as much interest to the usual audience here, the second programme in the series was pretty good too. It was about the hand making of kimonos. The sheer specialism and amount of work that goes into making one was quite staggering, with many of the stages of manufacture being done by separate cottage industries. I can only imagine the kimonos made in that way have price tags to rival the swords made in the first programme :/
The final programme in the series will be about Mingei Pottery.
The final programme in the series will be about Mingei Pottery.
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Will see it for sure!
Last night I saw another program about Japan, wife found it.
Check out YouTube, a series by NHK World called Japanology.
Last night I saw another program about Japan, wife found it.
Check out YouTube, a series by NHK World called Japanology.
