B.B.C. Armistice Day Coverage--Is that it??

[Ryan Woods]

Apologies if the question seems blunt, but what stopped you standing up at 1100 and sitting down at 1102?

The poem is For the Fallen by Binyon. What are they teaching kids in schools these days?

via PM...

Thanks for the comment - its one I wrote for a remembrance service a few years ago. Its title is "The Unknown Soldier"

Red

confused.com

As for your question, I should have done but I didn't. The reason not to interrupt an elder whilst teaching doesn't seem to cut it in my mind, looking back....

 

[British Red]

I imagine any confusion is due the fact I took the first line of "The unknown soldier" from the fourth verse of Binyons masterpiece which is normally used on remembrance services

Here is what a real poet can do

For The Fallen
With proud thanksgiving, a mother for her children,
England mourns for her dead across the sea.
Flesh of her flesh they were, spirit of her spirit,
Fallen in the cause of the free.

Solemn the drums thrill; Death august and royal
Sings sorrow up into immortal spheres,
There is music in the midst of desolation
And a glory that shines upon our tears.

They went with songs to the battle, they were young,
Straight of limb, true of eye, steady and aglow.
They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted;
They fell with their faces to the foe.

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years contemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

They mingle not with their laughing comrades again;
They sit no more at familiar tables of home;
They have no lot in our labour of the day-time;
They sleep beyond England's foam.

But where our desires are and our hopes profound,
Felt as a well-spring that is hidden from sight,
To the innermost heart of their own land they are known
As the stars are known to the Night;

As the stars that shall be bright when we are dust,
Moving in marches upon the heavenly plain;
As the stars that are starry in the time of our darkness,
To the end, to the end, they remain.

Red

 

[Ryan Woods]

Thanks for the clarification Red.

Dont exclude yourself from the "real poets" with quality work like that though! It raised the hairs on the back of my neck.

 

[Sniper]

Sadly Sniper they were not "Old codgers", they were young men in the prime of their lives, who were cut down and never got to see old codgership like those who don't "get it"

Wings, fortunately getting to be an "old codger"

I am perfectly aware that the majority were the young and strong, some even lying about their age to join up, but I was merely voicing what some of the ignorant yooff of today seem to think Stuart. Some of them cannot relate to the fact that these pensioners parading with chests full of shiny medals were about their age when they went of to the far flung corners of the world to fight.

 

[wingstoo]

some even lying about their age to join up,

That was my Grand Father, when he died in the 50's they had to check with the registrar to find out how old he was really as he had lied to go to War.

I had to remind a works manager the other day that "the old codger" driving the car in front was quite probably a war veteran, and deserved some slack.

He thought I was strange saying such a thing, each to their own I guess.

 

[Ryan Woods]

good on you to say such a thing though. Many people dont look beyond their own little world.

 

[Eric_Methven]

This is what upset me today.

The Daily Telegraph

Eric

 

[wingstoo]

I met Bertram A James a few years back, AKA Jimmy James, one of the Great escapers ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertram_James ) to most he was an "Old codger", but to a few of us a war hero, although he was shot down on one of his early bombing missions he got right under Hitlers skin, by continually trying to escape, which he did on numerous occasions.

A little old man, stood out in the cold collecting for the poppy appeal, there were few who really knew about his history.

A very brave man who was lucky not to have been executed for his escapades.

Wings

Sorry, gone off topic a tad, but it annoys me when folks "don't get it" when it comes to this anniversary

 

[_mark_]

Support doesn't seem to extend beyond platitudes and the bowing of a few heads. The target for fundraising this year was £39 million, the current total is £494,000 the phrase 'put your money where you mouth is' has never been more apt for the British public. Excuse my cynicism but the apathy sickens me as much as the poppy burning.

 

[rancid badger]

Thanks to all of you for the replies.

It usually takes a fair bit of goading, to get me to "go off" in public but this morning.......I don't know.

I just truly feel that today, the 11th of November, at 11am, is the time, to really think about the people who gave us what we all have today; our freedom.
And not only those who gave us that freedom, but those who have subsequently fought to defend it and continue to do so.

I think it was the manner in which the BBC coverage seemed rushed, it was on and then straight off. It gave me the impression that they (the BBC) were simply going through the motions and couldn't wait to get back to daytime drivel programming.

As Gregorach said:

gregorach

They've been showing a 5 part series of programmes called "Remembrance Week" on BBC1 (one every day), there's a 12-part series called "Time to Remember" on BB4, there's a programme about Wilfred Owen on BBC4 tonight, there's 1 hour 45 minutes of Remembrance Sunday: The Cenotaph on BBC1 on Sunday (and another hour of it on BBC2 later), etc, etc, etc...

OK, there wasn't more at the precise time you wanted it, but hardly anybody is watching TV at 11am on Thursday anyway.

I take your point about hardly anybody watching, however; if that's the case, then would it have been too much to ask, to have someone actually introduce the slot properly and then at the end, say a few words, a piece of poetry maybe?

Anyway;
It was very badly done and could have been very much more respectful, as far as I'm concerned.

It left me both angry and choked but what can you do?

Anyway; sincere thanks to everyone who has contributed, if nothing else, it sparked a bit more thought, on what to me at least, is the day to "think on"

best wishes

Steve

 

[Trev]

Hey ,
I think it's good to be angry about it all , I am . I remember every day , but for two minutes I am furious at the waste . Personally for me it's for those who had no choice , whether it be draft or poverty or some aristocratic glory hunt . Generations were lost , we owe at least an acknowledgement , for our country's shame .
I honour and support our army abroad but it's a professional army , I save my angst for those who died who weren't career soldiers .
That to me is rememberance , Current serving soldiers require support and respect and honour , but to me it's not what rememberance day is for .
Trev .

Edit , several years ago I worked in a supermarket that honoured the silence . Everytime I would be bombarded by customers asking for things . These customers were always of an age that should have known better , I was reported to the manager every year by at
least three seperate people ( all within the 1-2 minutes ) complaining about customer service , It used to make me feel sick to have to defend my responses .

 

[durulz]

It is true, I believe, that there are so many people who think like you Durulz, unfortunately...

Then you mis-read what I wrote. Or misconstrued.
I never, at any point, said we should stop the 2 minute silence. All I said was, that it is not surprising that so many young people no longer see it's relevance since they are no longer affected by the effects of war and it seems meaningless to them.
The point that I was making is that those who want to have the service should do, and those who don't shouldn't be made to feel guilty because they don't. And I used the example (admittedly in a flippant manner) that very few of us give remembrance for those who died at Waterloo, Hastings etc. At some point the 'current' becomes history. And all I was suggesting was that for many young people WW1 and WW2 are history. And they have let that go. Quite understandably.
Yes, there are people currently serving and families losing loved ones. And each and every friend and family member will remember them. Quite rightly.
But you can't oblige those who have no connection with the forces to feel the same way as you do. As I said in my previous post, we are not under the conditions of total war, so for many the actions taking place in Afghanistan/Iraq and many other places are merely news, not personal events.
For what it's worth, my grandfather was a pilot in WW2 and was killed over France. My uncle was in the Navy during the Falklands (though came back unscathed and unhurt).
Yesterday I observed the 2 minutes silence in remembrance of my grandfather. And on Sunday I will do the same. But I won't go to any public service, nor do I see the need. And neither do I see the need from those who are (thankfully) too young to know what it means to be overwhelmed by war.
I would be thankful if you (and any others who didn't accurately read what I wrote but just sought to get on their high horse) would read carefully what I wrote in future and do not project any insinuations I did not make.
Cheers.

 

[Tadpole]

This is what upset me today.

The Daily Telegraph

Eric

The people who have died fighting for freedom, died so all may have the rights, not just some, not just the ones who agree with the majority.
Even the people, who are so wrongheaded that it beggars belief, have the rights to protest, and the freedom to say what they like.

“How abominably unjust to persecute a man for such an airy trifle as that! 'I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it,'
Voltaire

 

[gregorach]

The people who have died fighting for freedom, died so all may have the rights, not just some, not just the ones who agree with the majority.
Even the people, who are so wrongheaded that it beggars belief, have the rights to protest, and the freedom to say what they like.

Precisely. If some bunch of bams choose to make idiots of themselves, that's their problem. It's not like they'll be winning many converts to their cause with such action, is it?

 

[Melonfish]

got to admit its either very stupid to disrespect all veterans by burning a poppy on armistice or these guys have got some serious cahones.

 

[marcelxl]

got to admit its either very stupid to disrespect all veterans by burning a poppy on armistice or these guys have got some serious cahones.

Protected by laws Islamic extemists apparently want changing.

I would doubt they would do it if the ones they were aiming their hate at were allowed to respond with equal prejudice........... Rise to it and they have got what they want

More annoying to me was that I heard about this but it was nowhere to be seen on the BBC or Sky news channels. Strange that.

 

[stovie]

2 minutes silence respected at work, by all staff, and they are from all over the world...
Will be leading the scouts out on sunday to the memorial on the green...

 

[Jock]

They're not just a few " bams" though are they ?

I find it deeply offensive. If these guys hate the west so much why don't they re-locate?

I'd expect other fascist groups gained ground in Italy Spain & Germany from a small core that was trivialised by the majority. We shouldn't ignore the lessons of history

Remembrance : lest we forget

 

[Frogo]

They're not just a few " bams" though are they ?

I find it deeply offensive. If these guys hate the west so much why don't they re-locate?

I'd expect other fascist groups gained ground in Italy Spain & Germany from a small core that was trivialised by the majority. We shouldn't ignore the lessons of history

Remembrance : lest we forget

Jock

I have to agree with you on this one.

 

[demographic]

Meh, by whinging about it we give them the oxygen of publicity.
Oh, too late.