I found an axe at the tip other other day but the edge is very very blunt. I need to remove at least 1mm of metal to put an edge on it. I seem to remember that a ray mears book said using a bench grinder on a axe is a must not o as it will damage the temper. Is this so?
axe and a bench grinder, is it a no no
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I believe its a definate no no. I tried it on an old axe that I recieved in similar condition. The file wouldn't touch it so i ground an edge on it. it is now slightly hollow ground,but its the axe I let the kids cut kindling with so it doesn't matter if it gets dinged.I wouldn't do it to a decent axe tho' as its very difficult to do accurately and chews up lots of metal very quickly.
simplest answer is yes it will ruin the temper
most grinders are too fast and too coarse producing great sparks and heating the edge to a rainbow of colours
i would suggest a file would be better for shaping and then tidy up the file marks with a stone
Tant
most grinders are too fast and too coarse producing great sparks and heating the edge to a rainbow of colours
i would suggest a file would be better for shaping and then tidy up the file marks with a stone
Tant
Paganwolf
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Hi Andy, if you heavily grind the axe's cutting edge it will heat up red hot and when it cools it will normalise the steel thus destroying the tempering of your axe,If you lightly grind it with a medium/fine grit wheel and quench frequently in a bucket of cold water you should be ok till the edge is of a standard for sharpening 
): or else use a file and sharpening stone as tantalus suggests.
): or else use a file and sharpening stone as tantalus suggests.PW's advice spot on.
I would add if you do use a grinder (you can safely grind with a carborundum grinding wheel) LIGHTLY is the operative word. Also invest in a wheel dresser (diamond point or western spur revolving type) which keeps the wheel true round and removes clogged particles. Most people try to grind on wonky clogged up wheels that need pressure to cut, so causing the build up of heat that WILL ruin your steel blade's. I have safely ground dozens of plane irons, chisels (even delicate ones) axe's adzes etc and have never burnt any. Keep a pot or jar of cool clean water right next to your grinder and dip-cool after every 1 or 2 passes, dab dry with old towel. Check very often using your palm to test temp. And don't rush.
If I had the £££'s I'd get the tormek wet wheel (quieter than carborundum)but well you know how it is.
When you come to re-haft your axe I would suggest using air-dried cleft ash (not a ready made from a shop) Cleft is split out the log not sawn so it follows grain instead of crossing it and is stronger. There are sites that show you exactly how, basically a lot of patient work with spokeshave, knife, files to fit haft TAP (tightly as possible), couple of oak wedges voila.
Oh and don't get fooled by that daft notion of slingin the axe in the woodburner to burn the old wood remains out-that will definately ruin it.
Good luck with your axe Andy whatever method you eventually use; nice to see a fellow scavenger at work!!
:wave:
I would add if you do use a grinder (you can safely grind with a carborundum grinding wheel) LIGHTLY is the operative word. Also invest in a wheel dresser (diamond point or western spur revolving type) which keeps the wheel true round and removes clogged particles. Most people try to grind on wonky clogged up wheels that need pressure to cut, so causing the build up of heat that WILL ruin your steel blade's. I have safely ground dozens of plane irons, chisels (even delicate ones) axe's adzes etc and have never burnt any. Keep a pot or jar of cool clean water right next to your grinder and dip-cool after every 1 or 2 passes, dab dry with old towel. Check very often using your palm to test temp. And don't rush.
If I had the £££'s I'd get the tormek wet wheel (quieter than carborundum)but well you know how it is.
When you come to re-haft your axe I would suggest using air-dried cleft ash (not a ready made from a shop) Cleft is split out the log not sawn so it follows grain instead of crossing it and is stronger. There are sites that show you exactly how, basically a lot of patient work with spokeshave, knife, files to fit haft TAP (tightly as possible), couple of oak wedges voila.
Oh and don't get fooled by that daft notion of slingin the axe in the woodburner to burn the old wood remains out-that will definately ruin it.
Good luck with your axe Andy whatever method you eventually use; nice to see a fellow scavenger at work!!
:wave:
I'll be blunt here (pun intended 
) ... nothing wrong with using a grinder as long as you are aware of the heat it will cause ... keep a bucket of water handy ... and dip in the bucket on every pass ... if you are careful ......... you won't take the edge any where near it's temper mark ...... Mr Mears is Wrong :yikes:
) ... nothing wrong with using a grinder as long as you are aware of the heat it will cause ... keep a bucket of water handy ... and dip in the bucket on every pass ... if you are careful ......... you won't take the edge any where near it's temper mark ...... Mr Mears is Wrong :yikes: 
Simon said:Mr Mears is Wrong :yikes:
Burn the heretic!
): I wouldn't advocate getting your practice in on a good axe, let's put it like that...
lol @ heretics peter
yeah i did say my answer was the simple answer......
i agree with ya, there are better (if a little slower) ways for a "one off" axe sharpening
too easy to mess it up on a grinder
Tant
yeah i did say my answer was the simple answer......
i agree with ya, there are better (if a little slower) ways for a "one off" axe sharpening
too easy to mess it up on a grinder
Tant
best way to sharpen an axe with a damaged edge is on the bench grinder ... unless you've got a spare weekend
heck yeah of course bushcrafters have spare weekends
nothin nicer than sitting next the fire sharpening or whittling while waiting for the kettle
isnt that what its all about??
Tant
nothin nicer than sitting next the fire sharpening or whittling while waiting for the kettle
isnt that what its all about??
Tant
At the end of the day you get best result from method you are most familiar with and confident with. Pro's and con's with both methods. Like with everything it comes down to practise, and looking closely at what your doing. The lens idea helped me enormously to get an even better edge than I was aceiving before. Carelessness with any shaping method could be disastrous. :shock:
Mr D :wave:
Mr D :wave:
mr dazzler said:
Kochanski's bushcraft book goes into depth on the subject of re-hafting as well. Makes interesting reading. I think he would approve of your method Mr D
Bill
simon (and others) no offense intended
i just find hand sharpening like boot polishing or wood sanding, quite relaxing in a "switched off and just wait for the results to appear" kinda way
Tant
i just find hand sharpening like boot polishing or wood sanding, quite relaxing in a "switched off and just wait for the results to appear" kinda way
Tant
An axe head can be ground with either a bench grinder or an angle grinder with sanding pads - but like most things in life it takes some considerable experience not to wreck things - including oneself.
A better method to get a consistent result as well as having a lot less chance of wrecking everything is to use a portable belt sander with a new belt and fairly coarse grit. You can polish up by hand. If it's at all possible to beg borrow rent a belt grinder then go that route. Just make sure that the axe head is SECURELY clamped to something solid.
A word of caution if you get to use someone's woodworking bench belt grinder is to know that sparks and wood dust make for some incredible explosions and flare ups - trust me on that one... A worse situation was someone who ground aluminium then rusty metal. The resulting aluminium powder and rust (thermite) was sparked and burned down his home. So if your woodworking buddy goes into fits when you ask to use his belt grinder - it's not personal...
A better method to get a consistent result as well as having a lot less chance of wrecking everything is to use a portable belt sander with a new belt and fairly coarse grit. You can polish up by hand. If it's at all possible to beg borrow rent a belt grinder then go that route. Just make sure that the axe head is SECURELY clamped to something solid.
A word of caution if you get to use someone's woodworking bench belt grinder is to know that sparks and wood dust make for some incredible explosions and flare ups - trust me on that one... A worse situation was someone who ground aluminium then rusty metal. The resulting aluminium powder and rust (thermite) was sparked and burned down his home. So if your woodworking buddy goes into fits when you ask to use his belt grinder - it's not personal...
Tant . no offense taken and none intended either ... I hand finish 95% of my work after heat treating ..... and I like to just switch off and get in to the rythm . for an axe head . the body of steel is greater and will take a lot of work to get it over temper as the body will absorb the heat to an extent ... the temper of the steel is likely above 200 degrees C
if it's really damaged . as the one at the beginning of the thread was ... you'll be a month of Sundays doing that by hand
2 tips for grinding .. if it's too uncomfortable to touch the side . it's too hot, Dunk ... the temper is over 200 .. you'll find it's too hot to touch at around 60 - 80 .. way off the temper.
also keeping the blade wet .. when the water begins to boil off the edge . get it wet again, Dunk . water boils at 100 ... blade is tempered over 200
follow those 2 rules and you won't even come close to damaging the temper
good safety advice from Jimbo
especially the aluminium and iron dust mix
http://www.eh.doe.gov/ll/lldb/detail.CFM?Lessons__IdentifierIntern=2001-RL-HNF-0036
the wood and steel isn't as much of a problem unless you've got an extraction system attached to a belt sander for wood and someone decides to grind metal on it .. Imagine airborne dust within an enclosed chamber being introduced to a spark .. big bang
. for an axe head . the body of steel is greater and will take a lot of work to get it over temper as the body will absorb the heat to an extent ... the temper of the steel is likely above 200 degrees C if it's really damaged . as the one at the beginning of the thread was ... you'll be a month of Sundays doing that by hand
2 tips for grinding .. if it's too uncomfortable to touch the side . it's too hot, Dunk ... the temper is over 200 .. you'll find it's too hot to touch at around 60 - 80 .. way off the temper.
also keeping the blade wet .. when the water begins to boil off the edge . get it wet again, Dunk . water boils at 100 ... blade is tempered over 200
follow those 2 rules and you won't even come close to damaging the temper
good safety advice from Jimbo
especially the aluminium and iron dust mix
http://www.eh.doe.gov/ll/lldb/detail.CFM?Lessons__IdentifierIntern=2001-RL-HNF-0036
the wood and steel isn't as much of a problem unless you've got an extraction system attached to a belt sander for wood and someone decides to grind metal on it .. Imagine airborne dust within an enclosed chamber being introduced to a spark .. big bang
there is also a belt sander. I'm not sure it's got a motor in it though. I was told that my late grandfather made the sander himself along with the milling machine. There is also a lathe (granvil senior) drill press and all sorts of other goodies. I was too young to be shown how to use them when he died.
OOPs Jimbo-
never realised that I quoted your site in my previous post further back down the thread. I hope you didn't mind
Still finding my way around here. Liked your site too. :biggthump
I know what you mean Tantalus about a slower patient aproach; I am the same way polishing off the backs of rough old plane irons/chisels etc-you keep working through the emery on glass stage by stage and you know when the completion has arrived. Very relaxing.
Just by way of interest, I wonder how many revs were needed for those big 5 and 6 foot stone wheels they used in sheffield to grind knives and that? Wonder if it was very quick. Does anyone know how that was done? :?:
On't subject of sparks and dust-anyone remember the waste re-cycling centre that had all the tin sheets blown off the walls when they had that sort of explosion? :roll: :wave:
never realised that I quoted your site in my previous post further back down the thread. I hope you didn't mind
Still finding my way around here. Liked your site too. :biggthump
I know what you mean Tantalus about a slower patient aproach; I am the same way polishing off the backs of rough old plane irons/chisels etc-you keep working through the emery on glass stage by stage and you know when the completion has arrived. Very relaxing.
Just by way of interest, I wonder how many revs were needed for those big 5 and 6 foot stone wheels they used in sheffield to grind knives and that? Wonder if it was very quick. Does anyone know how that was done? :?:
On't subject of sparks and dust-anyone remember the waste re-cycling centre that had all the tin sheets blown off the walls when they had that sort of explosion? :roll: :wave:
If you have cable, Daz, keep your eyes out for a series presented by Mark Williams on the industrial revolutions ... he goes in to quite a lot of detail on those stone wheels ...... ... including the fact that there were no safety measures in the old days and occasionally those wheels would shatter sending large rocks flying... being a grinder was a well paid job ... I think you'd call it danger money :yikes:
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