axe and a bench grinder, is it a no no

[mr dazzler]

Hi Jimbo,
Sudden flash of inspiration-I realised now whay you mean about the blade being put on from the front; You were thinking the "front" as in cutting edge being front; I was thinking of "front" from a picture plane point of view. Glad I got that sorted.
Its nice when curved wood limbs can be used as they are, reminds me of the shipwrights who used oak branches to form curved ribs, or to make hay forks and such. Or the house builders who split an entire billet to make cruck frame houses.
My only experience with skin is using goatskin for a drum. Is there any special points to watch out for when soaking/cutting strips/tying/knotting the rawhide ?? Looking at the "bone" I'd say you'll get 12-14" max length of material.
I reckon you just cut the slot for't blade with drill and chisel?? :?:
Thanks for your advice and patience
MR D
PS another thought-do you think it feasible to make an axe from lost wax cast bronze with a fine steel insert cutting edge? Like a modern bronze age version with a twist.

 

[ESpy]

PS another thought-do you think it feasible to make an axe from lost wax cast bronze with a fine steel insert cutting edge? Like a modern bronze age version with a twist.

Hmm. I would have thought that if you're trying to cast the blade with the edge in situ, the shrinkage on the bronze would be against you. Slot, pin and braze could work, however - I'd need to check temperatures on braze vs hardening temperatures, as that would naturally muck up any heat treat...

 

[mr dazzler]

I'm not a metal worker by any means, but I'm just thinking out loud as 'twere. What if the bronze casting had a cnc machined groove, and the steel edge machined with coresponding tongue (like floor-boards), then bonded with some sort of space age hi tech resin?? Tell me if you think its daft, just an idea.
It's amazing how that axe form was so universal. I just saw some more examples from Japan.
Its a form that would allow you to make a usable tool quite easily and quickly without forging or casting if the need arose.
Anyone done any outdoor bronze casting??

MR D

 

[OldJimbo]

It could work well - but I doubt it would be worth the effort. Axe heads are still being forged from iron with steel inserts - but for people who want an axe or tomahawk with historical perspective. The only point in doing it is to find out just how it was accomplished.
From watching Time Team episodes, I've been very impressed with seeing how bronze axe heads were cast, attached to handles and used. I'd love to try one of those!

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you'd be coming up with something made by modern methods and it wouldn't serve for anything but to show that you could make it. I'm sure that iron/steel inserts were used in bronze cutting tools - but we'd only learn how by making with primitive methods. A person could devote a lifetime to that!

 

[mr dazzler]

Yes, fair point Jimbo,
Just thought it'd look cool to see a brand new ancient bronze axe with a 20th century edge. It'd still be nice to have a go at making a regular one from wax/mud etc. Just as a matter of interest, I wonder how long a typical bronze palstave axe would have lasted-how durable-how frequently it would need sharpening etc. The folk then never wasted any metal (they still find hoards of bronze scrap today) perhaps just melted down a bunch of worn out tools and cast a new batch as need dictated. I wonder, relative to todays values what an axe was worth, maybe equivalent to a car or something now? When I see this sort of stuff (old artifacts) it puts me in reach of my ancestors, and makes me proud they acomplished such enduring quality with such simple methods. Contrary to "modern" beliefs, IMHO the ancient craftsmen were just as intelligent and inventive as any today, probably more so cos it was all done by hand and eye.
Mr D

 

[OldJimbo]

Probably my most re-read books are the "Primitive Technology" books edited by Wescott. We learn so much by experimental archaeology - which leads us to wonder just how much knowledge has been forgotten!
The problem with "little projects" is that they always turn into big ones. As soon as you do something, more questions arise. I can still remember thinking how easy it would be to make up some spindles and fireboards to test fire by friction. Pretty easy, I thought, with a cordless drill to do all the work. ... Then of course I found out about ways to treat wood prior to drying, and a few dozen samples turned into hundreds...
I spent all my free time this summer testing axes and hatchets. It looked pretty easy and simple at the outset because a bunch were provided properly ground. That of course soon led to examining certain characteristics and so out came a bunch of old heads to meet the angle grinder and belt grinder. There isn't much alternative to power tools and experience when a person is dealing with lots of heads. Getting just that experience took me long enough! Even so I had to see and use axes ground with decades of experience to see just what I needed to achieve - so I sure learned a lot this summer! I still have to put in hours of hand work to making bevels consistent and polished - but at least I know what I'm trying to achieve and why.
I guess that' along ramble to say choose your projects wisely, because they're likely to turn into lifetime adventures!

 

[OldJimbo]

Probably my most re-read books are the "Primitive Technology" books edited by Wescott. We learn so much by experimental archaeology - which leads us to wonder just how much knowledge has been forgotten!
The problem with "little projects" is that they always turn into big ones. As soon as you do something, more questions arise. I can still remember thinking how easy it would be to make up some spindles and fireboards to test fire by friction. Pretty easy, I thought, with a cordless drill to do all the work. ... Then of course I found out about ways to treat wood prior to drying, and a few dozen samples turned into hundreds...
I spent all my free time this summer testing axes and hatchets. It looked pretty easy and simple at the outset because a bunch were provided properly ground. That of course soon led to examining certain characteristics and so out came a bunch of old heads to meet the angle grinder and belt grinder. There isn't much alternative to power tools and experience when a person is dealing with lots of heads. Getting just that experience took me long enough! Even so I had to see and use axes ground with decades of experience to see just what I needed to achieve - so I sure learned a lot this summer! I still have to put in hours of hand work to making bevels consistent and polished - but at least I know what I'm trying to achieve and why.
I guess that's a long ramble to say choose your projects wisely, because they're likely to turn into lifetime adventures!

 

[Roving Rich]

Sounds interesting Jimbo, got a isbn No?
Mr Dazzler and any one else, there is a guy down here looking to run a course on bronze casting Axe geads and swords if we can get a group together.
cheers
Rich

 

[OldJimbo]

This amazon link will give the details and lets you read the table of contents. There are two volumes.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...104-4607143-2472761?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

This link for some online articles, details on bulletins:
http://www.primitive.org/

Very good stuff!

 

[OldJimbo]

I don't know whether anyone posted this link to tools.

The pdf files are freely downloadable for those with fast connections since the files are huge.
Scroll down page to find "An Ax to Grind" by Bernie Weisgerber.
http://www.sctrails.net/trails/LIBRARY/FSPubs/fspubs.html

A glimpse into why axes are more complicated than they look - and how to look after them.