axe and a bench grinder, is it a no no

[mr dazzler]

I do have cable Simon, (and am just about able to cope with't plethoria of adverts), but yes, there is some good stuff. I'll look out for that
Looking forrerd to Ray Mears's newest show too. I watched that recent re-run (on Sky) and what impacted me most was his parting comment about how important it is to inspire a spirit of adventure in young people, then he ski's off into't distance.
Have a great day, thanks for't reply,
Mr D :wave:

 

[Roving Rich]

I just love this place, so many people on the same wave length !
Thanks for the warning on grinders !!!! :yikes: i have ground both, but will be alot more careful in future, and warn my friend who uses both materials regularly and owns a bench grinder. Lucky bar steward also owns a Tormek. The Tormek is a slow turning grind stone, with its bottom half (ish) immersed in water, and a leather strop alongside. I got a great axe from LIDL for £3 ! (next to the special brew in isle 2 ) spent a few hours grinding it to convex and a shaving edge The Tormek is fabulous, but still go for £200 + 2nd hand on ebay ! Axminster do their own version anyone tried it ?
I have been using a bench grinder followed by a belt sander for making my knives (see not bad for an evenings work thread).
I turned my woodworking belt sander upside down (didn't clean it :yikes: ) and clamped it in the vice. It works really well (thanks for pointing me in the right direction guys :biggthump ) and is lots easier to control the edge than the bench grinder.
Just don't get it hot, keep dunking it in the water.
A word of warning - I picked up a nice axe head out of a friends scrap pile, decided i wanted to put my own Ash handle on it....found a nicely shaped piece of ash... just need to split it and shape it.... Meanwhile back at the workshop, i had knocked out a canoe paddle using a friends drawknife...decided that was the tool for the job, combined with a Froe to split the Ash. gave Jack (Woodland Organics) a call and he pointed me in the direction of Penny Farthing tools in Salisbury - http://www.pennyfarthingtools.co.uk/
They are great - both items... and a Swiss Bosch router in an oak case, set of wood graining combs and a leg vice...oh and a side axe head (ever seen one of those for sale !) did me deal- got the lot for £100 ! I was only in the shop for 15 minutes ! its terrible, every hand tool you can think of at a reasonable price, carving chisels galore ( i managed to resist them - this time) engineering tools what a fabulous place, an Aladdin's cave for folk like us ! What a hole on my pocket ! So I've put a handle on the froe, and now have 2 axe heads to find handles for ! :shock:
Sorry for waffling, but that is what picking up a scrap axe head turns into !
Rich

 

[sargey]

the quickest handtool for reprofiling is a hoodoo hone with a coarse grit, new paper less than 200 grit. definately faster than filing.

i wouldn't advocate going down that low for any run of the mill jobs as it takes so long to get the scratches out.

for power grinder, use i tend to follow the rule as already mentioned, if a water droplet doesn't just fizzle off it must be less than a hundred degrees. go slowly with a dunk every pass. if you're unsure, keep the axehead in the water cooling, jfor just as long as it was on the grinder heating.

cheers, and.

 

[OldJimbo]

No problem with quoting stuff off the site, copying pics or whatever, mr dazzler! Years ago I'd put it up as a geocities site and no-one could ever remember the address - so I named it after my user name on the forums. It's there if anyone wants to put up articles or anything - just email me.

I believe there's pics of the large stone grinders on Bernard Levine's site, together with some info.

 

[Andy]

here are some pics of the axe in question.

this side is how it was when I found it apart from the handle which has been sanded a bit.

this is the side thats had the wet and dry on it to get rid of the rust.

I think I'll just clamp the axe in a vice and get the files on it. I don't have a short supply of files or time. I'll then make a proper hone to get the convex edge (I had a curved one for use with a kukri before)

 

[Andy]

just checked the head after the axe been inside for a few days. It now wobbles So I'm not going to bother with it

 

[Tantalus]

prolly just the wood shrinking as it dries andy

a new handle will not break the piggy bank and should give you years of use out of it

Tant

 

[Simon]

easily remmedied ... and probalby as a result of being outside so long .. bring it in to the warm dry air and it is bound to shrink a bit .. i wouldn't mind betting that the wood shaft expanded for being exposed to the weather fo so long .. strong stuff is expanding wood .. might even have stretched the hole a fraction

you have probably got a wedge of some sort in the top of the shaft to hold the head in place... replace it with a bigger wedge .. or as tant said ... a new handle

 

[Andy]

I may play about with it and see. I have a bit of time and want something to do.

 

[jakunen]

strong stuff is expanding wood ..

Very true.
I have warm air central heating and it plays hell with the handle of my gollock. Having not used it for a while I chucked it in the pack and went camping. Got to site and ti was quite loose. NOT HAPPY. It rained one morning. Picked up gollock to find it didn't rattle...
Since gettings my Wetterlings it's kept away from the dry air!

 

[mr dazzler]

Must be some powerful when you think how you can use swelling wood to split and quarry stone.

 

[Simon]

Very true.
I have warm air central heating and it plays hell with the handle of my gollock. Having not used it for a while I chucked it in the pack and went camping. Got to site and ti was quite loose. NOT HAPPY. It rained one morning. Picked up gollock to find it didn't rattle...
Since gettings my Wetterlings it's kept away from the dry air!

Jak .. let it dry out a bit and go loose .. warm it ... and fill a jar with a a hard setting oil like tung oil, you can dilute it with white spirit a bit too, leave the handle submersed for a couple of days and then take it out and wipe away the excess,

what you will be doing is replacing the fluctuating moisture levels, with a far more stable hardening oil ..... once done . you will find it is less susceptible to humidity changes

 

[jakunen]

Cheers Simon. Just need to find some tung oil now...

 

[mr dazzler]

Hello there Old Jimbo
Thanks for your kind posting.
One question mate. On the set of photos from edgewise of axe's and knives, I was intrigued by the hawk (is that short for tommerhawk?) that was made from an old file and appears to be wrapped to its haft with raw-hide. How is the blade set into the haft; is it a small tapered through mortise, or does it have little shoulders to prevent it being forced through the haft? & Does the raw-hide act to prevent the wood splitting? Just interested to know as I'd like to make something similar. I once tried to make a elbow adze but couldn't work out how to stop the blade sliding with use. Any useful tips please? Are there any viable man-made alternaives to raw-hide? OOPS turned out to be more than one question!
Sincerely
MR D :wave:
PS your fave 22oz axe feels great just from't pictures!!

 

[OldJimbo]

Yep a hawk is just the shortened version of tommahawk. Strangely I've never seen an old one in western Canada - except for much bigger ones called trade axes and sold by the Hudson Bay Co.
I'd figure that hawk to have an eye but unlike a lot of hawks it appears the head is put on from the front like the axes we're used to. Since the heads aren't wedged, they're held in place with with rawhide. That stuff shrinks and hardens when it dries, and will hold anything in place. Then resin is melted on it to stop it getting wet again. Good system for weapons that are thrown.
I'm not sure what a person would use instead of natural rawhide for this use. They probably have some synthetic now, and I'll ask around. You do see ads for synthetic rawhide, but that's just for jewelry not strength. A good source for rawhide in most towns would be the slaughterhouse - you should be able to pick up a few scraps.
It used to be good information to know the location of the slaughterhouse since by some ancient ordinance the local pub there could open at some really early hour so that workers could get refreshment before wielding big blades at high speed.... Then again that was close to forty years ago, fish&chips were served in newspaper, faggots&mushy peas - such things are probably only real in the memories of us old timers.

For the elbow adze, use a hard wood - crab apple is about the only one here - and inset the blade before wrapping it on. Some neat shapes are to be seen at Kestrel Tools - and they say they use tarred nylon for wrapping. That could be good since nylon stretches and so holds things tight. Mason line for chalklines is braided nylon here - and it worked well for holding a crooked knife handle together. Just not too traditional.
http://www.rockisland.com/~kestrel/tools8.html

 

[mr dazzler]

Hi again Jimbo
I went out with't missis today-shopping, and unexpectedly came accross - rawhide - in the form of a dog chew. I reckon I'll soak it unknot it and use some of that as whipping. I'll try some other cords or threads also. I like using those carton wrapping bands, split lengthwise and twisted, although its hard to get knots to grab and stay put (warmth and a spot of glue gun does the trick usually). I got some big old files at car boot sales-I'll make blades from that.
Also for an elbow adze, should the haft and blade supporting block be all one piece; (do you cut out a section from a tree with a suitably angled attached branch to use as haft, then shape it etc?) Is haft/block angle critical or just personal preference? I looked again at some pictures of elbow adzes and noticed they have a little step to prevent blade movement.
Ash wood is probaly my best bet for haft wood, but anythings worth a try. I noticed also once some African carvers use a similar system, but the cutters fit into the haft block with a taper fit, (like the cutter on a traditional wooden spokeshave).
Finally I'm still not 100% clear how the blade fits onto the haft of traditional ax in your edgewise pics. Still not sure what you mean when you say "the head is put onto the front". Sorry if I seem slow.
Thanks for your advice
MR D

 

[Wayne]

Mr D. keep us posted how you get on with the dog chews. i have plenty left around after the mutts have got bored with them. it would be nice to fins a use for them.

 

[mr dazzler]

HI Wayne' Yes it'll be a test experiment. I don't know if theyve been treated in some way thats de-natured them, but at 99p its not going to break the bank.
Saw pictures of blokes recovering sinew from a rotting caribou, I think I'd prefer the 99p option as long as it works!

MR D :wave:

 

[Andy]

right I'm down to using a hoodoo type hone on it now. What angle should this be done at? It doesn't seem to be getting any sharper though it looks much better with a polished side on it. It went sharp for a while but I think it may have been a burr.

 

[OldJimbo]

I should have thought of dog chews - great idea!

On axes the head is fitted to a shaped section at the front of the handle. On hawks, the handle tapers to the rear where you hold it and the head is dropped on from the back and tapped forward. The handle is thicker at the front to hold the head in place, much like a pickaxe. It's a good system for hawks because they are thrown and it delays the handle breaking from the shock of hitting the target. Lots of handles get broken so it's pretty important to have a method of fitting without wedges where the handle can be replaced easily.
It sure looks like that hawk of Edge's has a head put on from the front like a regular axe, so it's not so durable for throwing.

The Kestrel adz handles are cut to shape, but the local carvers still use branches and go around to select one with the right angle. The benefit of getting one off the tree is that the grain configuration is much stronger.