Archery - variable range

[TeeDee]

If one is practising archery for the purposes of not target at a specific range but for the sake of becoming skilled with a bow , is it best to have targets at variable distances?

I'm just thinking how one becomes accustomed and conditioned to a target at the same set distance and constantly using the same amount of movement and kentucky windage and holdover to hit the predictable same spot.

But would one not be better with practising and changing ( if the range safely allowed it ) between aiming at targets with variable distances? 10 , 20 , 30 m etc? One arrow in one before moving to the next rather than getting the same ingrained training habit?

Interested how archers get better at judging distance and hold when they can only take the first shot.

 

[Wayne]

Field Archery is all about shooting targets at unknown distances with potentially branches to distract. If you miss you move to different shooting location. Far more interesting shooting style in my opinion.

 

[Seagull]

" interested how archers get better at judging distance and hold when they can only take the first shot."

Just a suggestion, is that you may find it interesting to see and hear some of what the fellah at 'Instinctive archery', says...on the Tube.

Rgds all
Ceeg

 

[Broch]

I do a kind of field archery with the kids (grandchildren) - we use rough hazel arrows tipped with wrapped wire and fletched with wool. We then walk through the wood and one of them will say 'look, a bear' pointing to a stump or something, and we all try and shoot it; then move on. If we find the arrows, great, if not, no loss and they rot down into with the rest of the fallen deadwood.

 

[dwardo]

I shoot at a fixed distance first to get my form sorted. I then change up the distance at random points. So form first then distance after.

I shoot trad bare bow only and I practice point on aim. I know my yew recurve is roughly just under point on aim at about 25/30 yards. When I need to adjust I have "imaginary" inch scale in my mind. 15/20 yards my POA is an inch below, further out its on.

Lots of methods out there each to their own. Also I second Seagulls comment on the "Instinctive archery" guy who is very good. I came across him on a JRE show.

Happy arrow slinging

 

[Buckshot]

I would suggest doing one thing at a time.
Get so you know and understand how you and the bow works at a set distance.
Only then move forward/ back to work on the hold over/ under needed.
If you try to change several things at once how do you know what's gone wrong?

 

[mikehill]

Join a field archery club and in a few months you’ll get used to judging distance then hold over/under or try string walking

 

[richy3333]

Depends upon bow discipline And specifics of sighting aids, or not. What type of bow are you shooting and if using a sight, what sort?

 

[bobnewboy]

Join a field archery club and in a few months you’ll get used to judging distance then hold over/under or try string walking

This. If you have an enduring interest, joining a club will give you a lot of practical help, insurance, coaching, and access to woodlands where courses and practice butts are setup for safe shooting. As a member, I’d suggest a club that is part of the National Field Archery Society (www.NFAS.net). There are three good clubs close to Exeter at Exmouth, Teignmouth, and Brixham as a start; and many more in easy reach.

 

[alphaburner]

There are tricks where you use your equipment, as a reference, to size the target. Others like mentally flipping a 1 yard stick (EFAF) or 1 meter stick (FITA). Join a club and you’ll get great advice. Of the two, my preference is IFAF which has more styles and is a little more “woodsie “ and hunting oriented.

 

[TeeDee]

Question to archers so I will tag it here - if you have arrows or bolts of equal length - regarding the fletchings - is there a Goldilocks 'sweet spot' of ideal size to the arrows length & weight? If I take a premade arrow and add larger fletchings - what can I expect in terms of results ? better accuracy but more air resistance= slower travelling arrow?

 

[Broch]

No and yes - you won't necessarily get better accuracy but the arrow will be slower. Remember, an arrow is tuned to the bow type, draw weight and your draw length - so arrow length, mass, stiffness (spine), and fletching; all (ideally) optimised.

I have just shortened six arrows that were too long and hence too heavy for the bow I was shooting them with. But I left the fletching the same. I've just got back from the range having decided I will reduce the feathers by at least a third as the arrow doesn't have enough mass to drag the fletching behind it (all very crudely and naively stated ).

However, by shortening the arrows I have increased their spine and they are now not the ideal stiffness for the bow. It was just an experiment

 

[TeeDee]

No and yes - you won't necessarily get better accuracy but the arrow will be slower. Remember, an arrow is tuned to the bow type, draw weight and your draw length - so arrow length, mass, stiffness (spine), and fletching; all (ideally) optimised.

I have just shortened six arrows that were too long and hence too heavy for the bow I was shooting them with. But I left the fletching the same. I've just got back from the range having decided I will reduce the feathers by at least a third as the arrow doesn't have enough mass to drag the fletching behind it (all very crudely and naively stated ).

However, by shortening the arrows I have increased their spine and they are now not the ideal stiffness for the bow. It was just an experiment

So..

If one was firing something that normally had target tips on , then the fletchings are scaled for that?
But if one intended to change out the target tips for actual broadheads -thus heavier , then the fletchings then are not scaled appropriately.

This isn't a Bow or Crossbow but still slings arrows at a predictable repeatable energy releases.

 

[Broch]

Think of the arrow as a tuned damped spring-mass system. When you release the string it pushes the arrow which has a mass at the front. The arrow bends/flexes as it tries to accelerate the mass. It then continues to oscillate as it goes down the range and, ideally, stabilises before it hits the target straight on. Part of the role of the fletching is to dampen the oscillations. However, too big and it will slow the arrow down and cause it to droop before reaching target.

Then there is the FOC (Front of Centre Percentage) - calculated by working out the balance point of the arrow. There is no magic 'best' figure that I have found, but figures ranging from 5% (for some heavy bow hunters) and 20% (for target shooting) seem to be the accepted range.

So, you don't necessarily need to increase the fletching size because you've put a broadhead on the arrow. But if you've increased the point mass by much, the arrow may flex too much, and a larger fletching may help to dampen that out at the expense of range and speed. The stiffness of the arrow is probably the most important thing

(sorry if most of that was teaching you to suck eggs)

 

[TeeDee]

Think of the arrow as a tuned damped spring-mass system. When you release the string it pushes the arrow which has a mass at the front. The arrow bends/flexes as it tries to accelerate the mass. It then continues to oscillate as it goes down the range and, ideally, stabilises before it hits the target straight on. Part of the role of the fletching is to dampen the oscillations. However, too big and it will slow the arrow down and cause it to droop before reaching target.

Then there is the FOC (Front of Centre Percentage) - calculated by working out the balance point of the arrow. There is no magic 'best' figure that I have found, but figures ranging from 5% (for some heavy bow hunters) and 20% (for target shooting) seem to be the accepted range.

So, you don't necessarily need to increase the fletching size because you've put a broadhead on the arrow. But if you've increased the point mass by much, the arrow may flex too much, and a larger fletching may help to dampen that out at the expense of range and speed. The stiffness of the arrow is probably the most important thing

(sorry if most of that was teaching you to suck eggs)

As mentioned - this isn't a Bow or Crossbow- its an Airbow , I was trying to get an answer without mentioning that but I guess its pertinent under what youve mentioned. The arrow is hollow but sealed at the front. Inside the barrel shroud is a tube that slides tightly within that arrow -once seated it the arrow is ready to fire. The CO2 travels down the slender tube to the tip of the arrow and forces the arrow out meaning that there is no archers paradox to contend with.

 

[Decacraft]

As mentioned - this isn't a Bow or Crossbow- its an Airbow , I was trying to get an answer without mentioning that but I guess its pertinent under what youve mentioned. The arrow is hollow but sealed at the front. Inside the barrel shroud is a tube that slides tightly within that arrow -once seated it the arrow is ready to fire. The CO2 travels down the slender tube to the tip of the arrow and forces the arrow out meaning that there is no archers paradox to contend with.

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That looks like something I would like to hear more about please @TeeDee

 

[TeeDee]

That looks like something I would like to hear more about please @TeeDee

So there are two units from Umarex - the Air Javelin and the bigger more powerful Air Sabre. I do possess both because I couldn't resist.

The Air Javelin now comes in two models- the original takes CO2 canisters - either large ones or two smaller ones by the way of an adaptor. The newer Javelin also comes as a PCP model.

The Air Sabre has always been a PCP unit but again two models now exist - the original sabre which fires one projectile , the newer unit is set up for Dual arrows making follow up shots ( for those that hunt ) more practical and quicker.

 

[Decacraft]

I didnt realise they were available on the UK market.
With the co2 cannisters(dual small ones) how many shots per fill are you getting?
What kind of range would you say they are suitable for?

I was about to get myself a recurve bow and practice archery, but this has now taken my eye and can see another expensive hobby coming up

 

[TeeDee]

I didnt realise they were available on the UK market.
With the co2 cannisters(dual small ones) how many shots per fill are you getting?
What kind of range would you say they are suitable for?

I was about to get myself a recurve bow and practice archery, but this has now taken my eye and can see another expensive hobby coming up

I've not been testing the uses per canister atm - I will do some testing but mostly been sticking to the larger ones for the moment.

Here is a good vid on someone testing the amount of shots per small canister.

Range wise - I have a red dot on mine and am getting good grouping out to 35/40m - but 25m is more realistic I think.

Where are you based in the UK? # South Wales - Well if you are eve down in Devon gimme shout and come have a play

 

[Decacraft]

I've not been testing the uses per canister atm - I will do some testing but mostly been sticking to the larger ones for the moment.

Here is a good vid on someone testing the amount of shots per small canister.

Range wise - I have a red dot on mine and am getting good grouping out to 35/40m - but 25m is more realistic I think.

Where are you based in the UK?

That looks great! I'll have to do a little more research as it's more a toy than a hunting tool unless I go to another country that allows it to be used for game.

I'm in South wales, having looked there's a few archery clubs close to me for regular archery and field type archery.
Luckily I can also use the range im with for anything bow/crossbow related as long as I have my own target setup.