Animal Dangers.

[sandbender]

Tick borne encephalitis. Killer.

Tick borne Lyme Disease. It'll mess you up.

"...would certainly sense something was amiss way before the attack happened..."

I can vouch for this, while sleeping around a fire in the Namibian bush, I was definitely aware that something wasn't right on one particular night, about five mins later we heard the rumble of many antelope (or something similar) charging off through the darkness. "there are lions about" said our guide who then promptly moved his sleeping gear to the top of a vehicle. We heard them roaring nearby later on and the next morning we found the tracks of several who'd circled our camp in the night.

The 'juvenile monocled cobra' looks very cool indeed.

 

[sunndog]

He's cool isn't he. The first pic is of a juvenile monocled cobra. You wouldn't want to slip your foot in that and try to tie it up.

Aye, pretty cool

This probably my favorite snake....though that's mostly cos of the name and cool facial expressions lol



The eyelash pit viper

 

[Didgeridoohan]

Tick borne encephalitis. Killer.

Even though we have large moose, bear, wolf and boar here in Sweden, ticks are the only creatures I'm really worried about when out. I'm actually vaccinated agains TBE and fortunately Lyme disease can be treated with antibiotics (just make sure you catch it in time).

 

[StJon]

Porcupine here in Tuscany, will turn their back on you and fire quills, only see them as road kill, though my daughter had one on her drive.

 

[lou1661]

They may rattle there quills, and rush backwards into you but they can not "fire" them from there bodies.

Porcupine here in Tuscany, will turn their back on you and fire quills, only see them as road kill, though my daughter had one on her drive.

 

[rg598]

Actually you aren't, that is simply untrue. or at best unprovable - assesing risk is something I am qualified in and was a major part of my job.

You might be confusing " you are a thousand times more likely to be killed driving than to be killed in the woods ".

However that is all road journeys.

I suggest that it very much not the case that you are a thousand times more likely to be killed on the specific journey to the woods. Indeed I would bet a substantial sum of money that there is no supporting evidence for that claim.

Lets break that down - a thousand times more likely to die in a single car journey than on a single trip to the woods.

Where would those statistics even come from? Does anyone measure the destination of the vehicle in fatal car accidents and then correlate them with deaths in the woods (excluding those who walked in or took the bus)? No? Thought not.

I think you might be taking the statement WAY too seriously. Just maybe!

And just for those feeling hypersensitive tonight, there is also no supporting evidence that the best way to avoid a dangerous animal is to hunt it. So, if that was your plan, sorry to disappoint.

 

[JonathanD]

Porcupine here in Tuscany, will turn their back on you and fire quills, only see them as road kill, though my daughter had one on her drive.

They don't actually fire them. They back into you and spear you with them.

 

[British Red]

I think you might be taking the statement WAY too seriously. Just maybe!
.

Not at all, simply pointing out that what you said is untrue

Happy to show the maths to disprove such a wild fallacy if it amuses?

 

[sunndog]

I'v got a hand full of porcupine quills somewhere...from the lion reserve where we used to live....tis true they don't actually fire the quills out but the ones in the park used to escape and chew any shovel handles they could find

 

[Uilleachan]

Even though we have large moose, bear, wolf and boar here in Sweden, ticks are the only creatures I'm really worried about when out. I'm actually vaccinated agains TBE and fortunately Lyme disease can be treated with antibiotics (just make sure you catch it in time).

Thats just it, how many people even consider it? preferring to worry about all the bigger more usual suspects. I'm quite used to dealing with ticks and living in a lyme's hot spot I'm thorough, but TBE isn't something we have to worry about in the UK, yet, so far from most peoples thoughts.

I'm now resolved to get inoculated simply because I spend so much time in countries where TBE is becoming much more of an issue.

 

[santaman2000]

Tick borne Lyme Disease. It'll mess you up.



I can vouch for this, while sleeping around a fire in the Namibian bush, I was definitely aware that something wasn't right on one particular night, about five mins later we heard the rumble of many antelope (or something similar) charging off through the darkness. "there are lions about" said our guide who then promptly moved his sleeping gear to the top of a vehicle. We heard them roaring nearby later on and the next morning we found the tracks of several who'd circled our camp in the night.

The 'juvenile monocled cobra' looks very cool indeed.

But did you actually see the lions? While they were hunting that is? And were they hunting you?

 

[cbr6fs]

Biggest problem i've had hiking and camping around Europe is with dogs.

In many of the more remote farms they often have packs of 10+ dogs that are loose, had one member of our party that had 3 or 4 dogs locked onto his leg at once.

Second biggest problem on the outskirts of more populated areas has been rats.
Once saw a rat eating the face of a collapsed drunk, shooed the rat away but couldn't get the drunk to stand up.
Apparently the rats have learnt that drunks don't tend to wake up and they go for the softest easiest bits of flesh, the face.

Luckily we were not camping round that area.

Have had rats chew through rucksacks, tents, food bags etc though.

In Greece we have Bears, wolves, scorpions and deadliest of all the horn rimmed viper.

Had wolves howling near our camp but didn't see them, had a bear literally walk through our camp, to be honest though i've been more concerned with packs of dogs than the bear.

 

[sandbender]

But did you actually see the lions? While they were hunting that is? And were they hunting you?

No, we didn't see them, we heard them out in the dark, we thought they were quite close and built the fire up a bit, the next morning it was clear that they had checked us out as they had circled the camp and were as close as 30 m at one point. Our guide expressed more worry about elephants and scorpions than lions though.

"...Biggest problem i've had hiking and camping around Europe is with dogs..."

Yes they can be a pain, from Spain to Greece and certainly in Romania and Bulgaria. Worse than dogs though are the Geese, they are just little velociraptors really, they herd you into places where they can get a better peck at you.

 

[Dave]

There would a far greater risk of being killed in an automobile accident on your way to the wilderness area, than being killed by a bear or a wolf once you are there.

How on earth does anyone monitor the death rates of journeys that are specifically "going to the woods" ?

Well my quote would be from Cliff Jacobson.

 

[British Red]

Well, as I said, by way of exercising my mental muscles, I did the maths (based on the " a thousand times more likely...." scenario.)

Okay - here are some stats

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1304948/

Seventy-eight mortalities occurred during the three years studied, resulting in an overall mortality rate of 0.26 deaths per 100,000 visits

That equates to one death in 400,000 wilderness visits.

Assuming the "thousand times more likely" scenario, that would be 1,000 deaths on journeys to the woods in 400,000 visits.

Put another way, for every 400 people who go for a walk in the woods, 1 will die on the way there.

That really doesn't seem very likely to me.

But lets keep looking at actual facts.

The US national park service claims 11,700,000,000 visitors (We’ll assume that is since they were founded in 1916 - say 100 years – any other assumption makes my case stronger)

(source http://www.nps.gov/aboutus/index.htm)

That would be 117,000,000 a year.

So, by the "1 in 400" number we get over a quarter of a million annual deaths on the way to a US national park.

However there are only 36,000 odd road traffic deaths in the USA each year

(source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate)

So, unless every road traffic death in the US happens on the way to the woods, and, in addition, someone is hiding a couple of hundred thousand bodies each year, you are simply not a thousand times more likely to die on the way to the woods.

So, not only is it impossible that you are a thousand times more likely to die on the way to the woods, its actually impossible to be a thousand times more likely to die in any road accident ever.

More likely to die in a road accident? Not even that is certain. As a statistical mean, sure. But it is also more likely that as a statistical mean people spend more time in cars than in the woods. So actually, it is quite likely that, hour for hour, you are in fact far safer in the woods.

It does help to understand both the principles of risk and statistical reasoning when discussing the subject (not aimed at you of course Dave - just the general woeful ignorance of the subject by people who pontificate without the most basic understanding of the scientific methods that underpin a sensible discussion)

 

[JonathanD]

I'm probably more likely to die of snakebite than by anything else The odds aren't good.

 

[bambodoggy]

Am I right in thinking that statistically the most dangerous place to be is in your own bed......reason: more people die peacefully in their own bed than anywhere else. As a young single man many moons ago that statistic terrified me....and I therefore slept in nice girls beds just as much as possible.....for safety's sake you understand lol

 

[JonathanD]

Actually no. Home cooking is more likely to polish me off.

 

[Dave]

My post was just intended to give quixotigreek an idea of how far down the list the danger from a big animal attack is.

As TV would have us all believe if you go into the woods, youre on the menu, and bear or wolf fodder.

What Cliff Jacobson actually said was;

The real dangers? You are most likely to get killed driving to and from the wilderness, car wrecks gotta be number one. Number two is open water crossings........Number three hypothermia........Number four you could probably add an accident.....Bears?! Bears are so far down the list they dont even count!

For those who dont know him, Cliff Jacobson is one of the USA's prominent wilderness guides and writers. He's wrote a lot of books on wilderness canoe expeditions.

His sentiment's the point I was trying to put across, whatever the statistics are on car accidents. That big carnivores are widely misunderstood.

 

[British Red]

And for many years, it was widely held the world was flat.

Trust me - you are NOT more likely to die driving to the wilderness. I'm sure Mr Jacobson knows a great deal about the wilderness. It is apparent though that he knows damn all about risk