An entirely new knife.............

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
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I do fancy a Nessy at some point - but I rather worry thats just for "historical" reasons rather than usability reasons.

I love this being called a kitchen knife!

If it ends up 50% usable kitchen knife, 50% precision woodworking tool, then Stu has nailed exactly what I want! A knife for the the purposes I use it for!

Red
 
the Ness to me looks a usefull kitchen knife because of its wide blade
similer to my fave Veg chopper

also looks good for scraping and lots of control with hand grips on the blade etc

all speculation at the moment as ive never tryed one but intend to rectify this as soon as i finish my Woodlore clone (again to try it)

main diff i see needed for a more bushcraft knife than the std kitchen GP is a bit more strength mainly given by thicker blades

the woodlore is the GP veg knife style

The nessmuk is similer to a butcher style

The Goucho kinfe is a Chefs knife style

the Redloremuk :D is a more fillet style


on a practical point would the lanyard hole bored to fit a Fire steel as a 'T' bar help boring ?????

ATB

Duncan
 

sargey

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Sep 11, 2003
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looing very good indeed. the steak knife bush craft knife is one i've been after for a while. still waiting for that nice allan blade bloke :rolleyes: to turn up the one i paid for however long ago it was.

on mine though, the spine is perfectly straight with no drop. i like it like that as i seem to cut more square holes that i bore round ones. i reckon the size is about perfect. oh and i want a full flat grind, with a convex terminal bevel. none of that scandi nonsense thank you! :swordfigh :D

as to the confusion with the grinds and their names...

full flat generally refers to a knife that is triangular in cross section, as it is ground fully from the edge to the spine. this is the easiest way to get maximum strength for mass.

a scandi grind is nominally flat, but many are ground on very big wheels so they're actually ever so slightly hollow. some of the ws-woodlores were done like that.

the zero edge or zero bevel refers to a "theoretically true" scandi grind that has no secondary bevel. many people will assert that most sensible scandavians don't use it, but that they use a tiny secondary bevel to make the edge more robust.

my feeling is, give a load of razor sharp true/pure/theory scandis to a load of scouts and see how long the edges last. the slight-convex scandi is definately the way forward for that application. sharpening as meditation quickly becomes sharpening a real chore

cheers, and.
 

sargey

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cheltenham, glos
the woodlore is the GP veg knife style

well, it's ok for peeling. but when it comes to slicing veggies best get a goalie in to catch the slices as they snap off and go flying! :lmao:

cheers, and.
 

Shinken

Native
Nov 4, 2005
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many people will assert that most sensible scandavians don't use it

Many people will say that, and they will all be wrong.

Its not a question of what grind you use, its a question of how you grind a particular grind.

Full flats can be too thick or two thin to be practical as can convex, hollow and scandi or any grind for that matter.
 

Shinken

Native
Nov 4, 2005
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I personally dont think 3mm is too thin, i wouldnt want to go any than that personally unless you going full flat.

I think you have the thickness spot on imho
 
sargey said:
well, it's ok for peeling. but when it comes to slicing veggies best get a goalie in to catch the slices as they snap off and go flying! :lmao:

cheers, and.
:D
point was the profiles are similer to their kitchen counterparts

for Bushcraft we strengthen by thicker blades this obviously compromises some uses but increases others

im in the process of making a 3/4 scale woodlore and thats 3mm thick and almost identical to my utility veg and feels very nice but is still thicker :D

ATB

Duncan
 

sargey

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Sep 11, 2003
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cheltenham, glos
Shinken said:
I personally dont think 3mm is too thin, i wouldnt want to go any than that personally unless you going full flat.

I think you have the thickness spot on imho

is the missing word "thicker"? ;)

cheers, and.
 

stuart m

Nomad
May 18, 2006
434
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Sheffield
www.stuartmitchellknives.com
British Red said:
D*** straight it'll be scandy! Didn't realise zero ground meant "full flat". How would you get a choice of angle on a full flat though? I thought zero ground meant "without a secondary bevel"?

Showing my ignorance on "knify" terminology here so I'll go shtum! :D

Red
Some great points raised about edges and grinds...

The way I see a scandi grind is this...

54d03be41.jpg


Perfectly flat with no secondary bevel...

My general rule of thumb is that a bevel ground at twice the thickness of stock will give you a 30deg angle, 15 degrees per side.

But... We are not after a 30deg standard here... Red is happy to trade "some of the heft for more of the deft" (first time I have used that phrase and I like it :) )... The grind will be deeper than 6mm, not sure how much deeper yet but I don't see an angle of 20deg as a worry on a knife of this type... Even a little less, a good steel with a good ht and a good grind, I wouldn't be worried :)
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
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stuart m said:
Some great points raised about edges and grinds...

The way I see a scandi grind is this...

54d03be41.jpg


Perfectly flat with no secondary bevel...

My general rule of thumb is that a bevel ground at twice the thickness of stock will give you a 30deg angle, 15 degrees per side.

But... We are not after a 30deg standard here... Red is happy to trade "some of the heft for more of the deft" (first time I have used that phrase and I like it :) )... The grind will be deeper than 6mm, not sure how much deeper yet but I don't see an angle of 20deg as a worry on a knife of this type... Even a little less, a good steel with a good ht and a good grind, I wouldn't be worried :)


That, as they say, is the puppy! You certainly have got the intention there stu. I can't comment usefully on the grind angle other than - "good for fine slicing and not too fragile".


Never tell an expert how to do his job!

Red
 

Rhodri

Forager
Nov 12, 2004
152
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British Red said:
That, as they say, is the puppy! You certainly have got the intention there stu. I can't comment usefully on the grind angle other than - "good for fine slicing and not too fragile".


Never tell an expert how to do his job!

Red

Jeepers! Sharp then? That's almost in straight razor territory :)

I was going to make a comment about not wanting to take that as my only knife - but this is Red we're talking about... Don't think you travel light in the sharps department do you? ;) :D
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
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Well,

Not exactly "heavy" either - I just use my knife differently I guess.

My Lee Reeves double bit axe weighs 500g, but I've comfortably split 8" logs with it - if I feel a single bit coming on, then the Cegga axe is a massive 650g ;). You genuinely can shave with either of them

If you add a folding saw - I'm currently using the scarily named "Silky Pocket Boy" - a tiny kerf on it means it easily out saws a Laplander and weighs virtually nothing. But with a Reeves, a pocket boy and this knife I suspect I could accomplish most things and a total weight of under a kilo!

I totally understand its not everyones cup of tea. I make pot hangers with an axe or saw a lot of the time - a lot would baton their knife. Neither is right or wrong in my head - I love hearing other people go "yep love it" or "no, hate it". I can't wait to hear Weavers comments and some of the other US contingent - their view of knives is often very different again!


Red
 

Rhodri

Forager
Nov 12, 2004
152
7
54
Suffolk
British Red said:
Well,

Not exactly "heavy" either - I just use my knife differently I guess.

My Lee Reeves double bit axe weighs 500g, but I've comfortably split 8" logs with it - if I feel a single bit coming on, then the Cegga axe is a massive 650g ;). You genuinely can shave with either of them

If you add a folding saw - I'm currently using the scarily named "Silky Pocket Boy" - a tiny kerf on it means it easily out saws a Laplander and weighs virtually nothing. But with a Reeves, a pocket boy and this knife I suspect I could accomplish most things and a total weight of under a kilo!

I totally understand its not everyones cup of tea. I make pot hangers with an axe or saw a lot of the time - a lot would baton their knife. Neither is right or wrong in my head - I love hearing other people go "yep love it" or "no, hate it". I can't wait to hear Weavers comments and some of the other US contingent - their view of knives is often very different again!


Red
I carry similar (although the axe is just a GB) and if I'm honest the knife is the least used. Pretty much restricted to food prep. The 'economy of effort' afforded by an axe is rather attractive :)
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
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Thats kind of what drove my decision on this knife Rhodri - I want a knife thats optimised for the tasks I do with it most of the time. If I ever find myself sans chopper and saw, I'll still have a knife thats every bit as capable as a Mora - and thats good enough for Mors and the Woddlore school :eek:. However, for what I really use it for (food prep, plant gathering and fine wood work) I hope it will be "deigned for the task".

I started thinking this when carving with a very fine bladed Frosts knife - wicked point and about a 2" blade. I was sitting there thinking "this is such a handy tool and so precise - I wish my belt knife was more like it". Then I thought more about the kitchen knives I like to use (a few have spotted that influence) and so it went on!

I doubt I'll ever have to "wrestle bears" with my knife, and if I plan to go shelter building etc. I'll have my axe and saw...sooo...the "precision field knife" was conceived (lousy name...must think of a better one)

Red
 

stuart m

Nomad
May 18, 2006
434
18
54
Sheffield
www.stuartmitchellknives.com
British Red said:
Thats kind of what drove my decision on this knife Rhodri - I want a knife thats optimised for the tasks I do with it most of the time. If I ever find myself sans chopper and saw, I'll still have a knife thats every bit as capable as a Mora - and thats good enough for Mors and the Woddlore school :eek:. However, for what I really use it for (food prep, plant gathering and fine wood work) I hope it will be "deigned for the task".

I started thinking this when carving with a very fine bladed Frosts knife - wicked point and about a 2" blade. I was sitting there thinking "this is such a handy tool and so precise - I wish my belt knife was more like it". Then I thought more about the kitchen knives I like to use (a few have spotted that influence) and so it went on!

I doubt I'll ever have to "wrestle bears" with my knife, and if I plan to go shelter building etc. I'll have my axe and saw...sooo...the "precision field knife" was conceived (lousy name...must think of a better one)

Red
I don't think the "PFK" sounds too bad ;)
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,886
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Hmm theres a good anagram game possible here

The British (Utility) Red Knife

Or

Stuart Mitchell Advanced Knife

Or

Stuart Mitchell Ergonomic Grip Knife


or

The

R ed Advanced Knife or RAK (and Ruin) :D
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,886
2,137
Mercia
Hmmmm it needs a name but.... I think I'll pass on them.

Precision Utility Knife (PUK) its better than Field .... never mind :eek:

Red
 

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