Alternatives to the traditional bow?

[bent-stick]

If you want to see how effective they can be you can put one together out of .50 plastic pulmbing and make darts from cones of paper. We were getting 15 metres and shooting over my mates house this summer in Holland.

The kids there make incredibly complex constructions with L- bends for handles and another tube on top for a 'telescopic' sight.

I'm told that the trick is to get just the right grade of glossy paper (edit: thin but glossy, the freed ad papers that pour through the door in Holland are the best) for the darts and just enough spit to make it stick together. The paper is torn into strips about 2" wide, then theres some fancy folding to make sure the tip is air tight, rolled up and made into a cone about 5" long. This is gently inserted into the tube, torn off at the right diameter and Bob's you Uncle.

I was instructed in the art by an 8 year old and we nicked his blowgun after he had gone to bed and played with it until the early hours.

Warning: by the letter of the law this is possibly illegal

 

[sharp88]

I dug around in my room and found the old thing!

Sorry about the Image quality, but the flash was off and the light was bad, because of the foul weather.

I also have a .40 cal, but I couldnt find it.

You can also see some of the darts I made or modified. I couldnt find any of the others, but some were quick wacky.

 

[pumbaa]

The law on blowguns is bizzare , a friend recently bought one back from Thailand . No problems whatsoever coming back through customs !
I also have one of these not exactly a hunting tool , but effective all the same . I had the missfortune to have the house searched by the police a year ago , they didnt even take a second glance at the blowpipe , but they were really worried about a bb gun that i picked up down the the market that was basicly a childs toy !
Our legal system lacks consistancy
Pumbaa

 

[jon r]

i just made a super mini blowpipe! its actually quite good! the arrows are cocktail sticks and the pipe is about the length of a straw. Just a bit of fun

 

[PatrickM]

Here is a couple of spear throwers which are carved, steam bent and then fitted with a slate counter weight........ Great fun

 

[rich59]

Goodness Patrick, amazingly sophisticated.


I was thinking about dart guns and blow pipes. You can also keep it legal if the ammunition isn't hard. Any ideas on soft ammunition?

Working on the alternatives to blowing - I came across the "smarty tube" gun that fires the plastic cap when the tube is crushed quickly. Would this design be better than blowing for peak velocity?

 

[bcraft]

Now that is seriously cool PatrickM any ideas what the arrow heads are made of.
thx

 

[Doc]

Fantastic Patrick.

The atlatl/woomera idea is very interesting. I have read about putting a mid shaft weight in, but have not seen it so neatly executed.

 

[Andy]

Could one base a projectile launcher on a tube but using string and wood to impart the force?

Yes, I have made something which was (or rather could be). Adam Heart davis has used a bungee powered cannon to demostrate the advantages of rifiling as well (though rather then use rifiling the device had a motor on the section of wood which pushed the projectile along, it had lugs which interlocked with teh base of the projectile spinning it around whilst in the tube
Here's a diagram I tried to make

that diagram shows a metal reinforced pipe with bungee cords being hooked onto the platform and looping over pegs at teh end of the tub. The one I made was a mini version using two small half pipes in a couple of clamp stands with big elastic bands for the bungee power. It accuratly fired marbles across a room.
It would however be very difficult to power with wood without just making a more enclosed crossbow (or two long bows side by side). It works well with something stretching as the resulting force is in a straight line. bending a sapling to power it would make it want to move in a arc rather then a straight line.
I can't really think of a way to make an effective hunting weapon from it though and it makes a lot more noise then a bow (you could make try making a rifled barrel and have a non explosive powered rifle

On the idea of a compressed gas blow pipe it's very simple to make. you can make them with a vaccum cleaner (in Physics I turned one into a multi shot bazzoka but that might be a little extreme). The most simple way I can think of doing it is to have a presta valve from a bike inner tube glued into the to of a lemonade bottle top. put this onto a lemonade bottle and pump up to 100PSI (pop bottles can handle this) have a tub which has an airtight fit round the bottle top (you could use a bit of blue tac to help). hold it at an angle and drop a projectile down the tube, when it hits the vale it will allow allow air to rush out hopefully shooting the projectile out of the tube.

None of this is very bushcrafty though and though it's fun making stuff like this it's not much use for anything else (though shooting ones physics teacher with film pots is pleasing)

PS if your accelerating a film pot through a 60cm tube with the other end closed by a bit of paper with the vaccum cleaner attached to a side hole 10cm from teh end the ideal weight of the film pot os 34grams providing your powering the device with a DC04

 

[Burnt Ash]

Mind you anything that takes game silently is illegal. Longbow, crossbow and blowpipe all SILENT and, I believe all illegal. Rifle and shotgun both NOISY and ,with licenses, both legal.

You obviously haven't heard (or should that be not heard?) my .22LR moderated Anschutz XIV with sub-sonics then?

Burnt Ash

 

[Burnt Ash]

I vaguely remember seeing areview of a book on 'man powered weapons' that covered crossbows and air rifles too.

The Practical Guide to Man-Powered Bullets by Richard Middleton, Pub. Merlin Unwin Books (2005). Subtitled: Experiments with Catapults, Musketballs, Stonebows, Blowpipes, Big Airguns & Bulletbows

Burnt Ash

 

[stovie]

The Practical Guide to Man-Powered Bullets by Richard Middleton, Pub. Merlin Unwin Books (2005). Subtitled: Experiments with Catapults, Musketballs, Stonebows, Blowpipes, Big Airguns & Bulletbows

Burnt Ash

It's a very interesting read. I did have a copy and stupidly loaned it out...and have yet to get it back

 

[wanderinstar]

Burnt Ash,
After I'd posted I wondered if someone would bring up air rifles, and they did. Was just trying to make a point.

 

[anthonyyy]

I'd like to hear from anybody who has practical experience of atlatls. And HOW do you pronounce atlatl?

 

[C_Claycomb]

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/atlatl
Pronunciation: 'ät-"lä-t&l

 

[Burnt Ash]

Burnt Ash,
After I'd posted I wondered if someone would bring up air rifles, and they did. Was just trying to make a point.

Well, if you'll forgive me, the point isn't terribly well made. The weapon I was referring to is not an air rifle, but a small calibre rim fire, for which an appropriate U.K. Fire Arms Certificate (FAC) is required. The .22LR round typically has a kinetic energy at the muzzle approaching an order of magnitude (i.e., about 10x) greater than that of the maximum legally allowed (12 foot pound, or approx. 16.27 joule) for an over-the-counter air rifle (i.e., one not requiring the purchaser/owner to have a FAC). With sub-sonic ammunition and an efficient sound moderator, .22LR rifles can be very quiet indeed (much quieter even than a conventional break-barrel spring powered air rifle). With a bolt-actioned .22LR weapon, the sound of the actual discharge is almost un-noticeable from more than a few yards away: the noisiest sound involved is invariably the 'slap' of the bullet striking the target. Semi-automatic weapons are a bit noisier, with the sound of the action cycling and the spent cartridge being ejected after the shot has been fired.
While much more powerful than an air rifle, the .22LR is still a pipsqueak compared with centrefire rifle calibres, which have muzzle energies typically measured in tens of hundreds of foot pounds. Nevertheless, the .22LR is an effective small game round. It is capable of quite impressive accuracy out to about 70 yard. It can be used humanely on rabbits out to 100 yard, or so (depending on the skill of the shooter).

You may be interested to know that sound-moderated shotguns are also available in the U.K. - usually in 12g or .410 - and for which 'quiet' sub-sonic ammunition is available. These are not as quiet as moderated .22LR, but surprisingly quiet, nonetheless.

Burnt Ash

 

[Snufkin]

I'd like to hear from anybody who has practical experience of atlatls. And HOW do you pronounce atlatl?

Lots of people here have experience with atlatls. I haven't thrown in a while. The thing I find most difficult is adjusting for elevation, I either underthrow or overthrow. But a fun and simple to make weapon.

 

[rich59]

The .22LR round typically has a kinetic energy at the muzzle approaching an order of magnitude (i.e., about 10x) greater than that of the maximum legally allowed (12 foot pound, or approx. 16.27 joule) for an over-the-counter air rifle (i.e., one not requiring the purchaser/owner to have a FAC).

Can anyone explain to me how to measure the impact of a projectile in "foot pounds"? I don't understand the unit.

 

[Burnt Ash]

Can anyone explain to me how to measure the impact of a projectile in "foot pounds"? I don't understand the unit.

The kinetic energy of a projectile is calculated by the formula: half mass x velocity squared. Because a lot of ammunition information comes from the US, we continue to use their units (foot pounds). If you are younger than middle aged and were educated in the UK (or indeed, almost anywhere else in the world other than the US), you'd be more familiar with SI (Systeme Internationale) units and their derivatives in which the unit of energy is the joule.

The muzzle energy is the kinetic energy of the bullet as it leaves the barrel of the rifle. The muzzle velocity can be measured by firing the round across a special chronometric device. These devices can usually provide the muzzle energy calculation if you key in the known or measured mass of the bullet.

Here is a muzzle energy calculator that you might find useful. You'll find several others on the web if you search.

Incidentally, since kinetic energy varies with the square of velocity, the formula shows that you have actually four times (not twice) as much kinetic energy to deal with if you prang your car into a tree at 80 mph compared with doing it at 40 mph (if all other parameters stay the same).

Burnt Ash

 

[wanderinstar]

Burnt Ash,
I stand corrected regarding noise levels.
Can anyone be so informative as to why longbows, crossbows, blowpipes etc are illegal to take game with?