A little too close to home

[Javapuntnl]

Just back from a vacation in homeland Holland I found a message on our machine from my daughters school saying they were offering grief counseling... I had no idea what they were talking about but was a bit too jet-legged to think much of it until today I found this article.

http://www.wickedlocal.com/mansfield/news/x695078721/Suspected-killer-God-told-me-to-do-it

My daughter is also 6, she goes to the same school, Robbinson School and is in the same year as this girl was but not in the same class. I don't know if she knew her... we haven't told her yet.
The house where it happened on Chilson Street is less than two minutes walk away from our house.
Hmm,... makes quite and impact.....................

 

[Toddy]

It's always close to someone

My cousin's children were in the primary school in Dunblane when Thomas Hamilton murdered the infants and their teacher.

I hope things go well for the children who knew the little girl in this tragedy.

Toddy

 

[Opal]

I feel so sad for this little girl.

I don't give a monkey's uncle what anyone thinks of my next statement but there yer go.....I'm sick to death about all this lack of compos mentis lark (he can't stand trial because of his mental health), hang them, get rid, no use to society, I want my grandchildren to have a life than be in fear of these unpredictable morons walking the streets.

 

[spamel]

I feel so sad for this little girl.

I don't give a monkey's uncle what anyone thinks of my next statement but there yer go.....I'm sick to death about all this lack of compos mentis lark (he can't stand trial because of his mental health), hang them, get rid, no use to society, I want my grandchildren to have a life than be in fear of these unpredictable morons walking the streets.

Sounds fair to me. If there is absolutely no doubt that they did it, which is possible with todays forensics, then get rid. They are a burden to the taxpayer and will never integrate back into society. There's too much mollycoddling these days.
:AR15firin

 

[Opal]

Spam, d'yer know I'm as compassionate as the next man/woman, I'm an emotional barsteward at times, I've been a support worker for a long time now, supporting service users from the age of eleven to sixty, each having differing learning disabilities including autism and the younger ones had neglecting/abusing etc, parents.

I've seen the lot and I would have no hesitation in pulling the hatch open on some of the parents. I keep uttering, there are too many do-gooders in this world to put a stop to it, how do we sort it?...get rid of the do-gooders first?

a jest, but it does wind me up so much when I hear things like this.

 

[smoggy]

A tragedy indead, or rather a secuence of..............

It's all too easy to call for someone to be hanged, who is obviously suffering from mental ill health, an illness just like any other........which is either curable, managable or terminal the same as any other ilness. It may well be that the medical profession have to answer some questions over these events.

For those that don't know, Mental Ill Health affects 1 in 4 people at some time in their life, it may not be very severe or for a long period, but even if it is and recurrent they can still live a reletively normal life and be very productive members of the community.
1 in 4, that means on average someone in you family, workplace, local pub, doctors surgery, A & E department, even the paramaedic that saves your life could be a sufferer......

So lets not call for the extermination of all these people who are seen as of no use to society.................Hitler came to that conclusions!

Smoggy.

 

[Opal]

See what I mean.

 

[Toddy]

Yes we do, but did you see what Smoggy meant too ?

There's damned little black and white in these issues.
Usually it's shades of muddy greys.


cheers,
Toddy

 

[sandbender]

"...If there is absolutely no doubt that they did it, which is possible with todays forensics, then get rid..."

And when the police or the state nobble the evidence to ensure that the forensics tell the story that they want?

The Innocents Database

 

[BorderReiver]

Kill the guy for being sick. OK.

Why bother to spend money treating him and others like him?

Why, we've already saved millions by shutting down mental hospitals and dumping the vulnerable into the community; let's go the whole hog and just kill them.

Saves effort and money.

Now, who decides whom to kill?

 

[Tengu]

Javapuntnls in the US....

 

[Big Geordie]

Hi Guys,

I fall neatly into the middle ground of grey. I work in the charitable sector, with groups that include young offenders. My problem is that since my son was murdered 3 years ago, I go between the extremes of either wanting the killer dead or viewing this as a tragedy for both families and a waste of 2 young lives.

Could I kill him if he was stood in front of me? Quite possibly. Do I want to? Sometimes yes & sometimes no. At what point does this stop being a natural part of grieving, and become a selfish motive of revenge?

I suspect if you can see your way through my problem, you will appreciate that everyone might lose in the end. It is possible that there is no answer (in this world anyway)

ATB
G

 

[smoggy]

I'm no do-gooder, not in the manner depicted above..........I firmly believe that the courts and the government are far too lenient on offenders, but punishing someone for being ill is in my view as much a crime as they may have been convicted of in the frst place!

I speak here from first hand experience, (over 10yrs working with Mental Ill Health Sufferers and with the probation service) not others anacdotal ramblings, both crime and mental ill health can have a huge toll on families and society and small insight has already been related above, the difference with mental ill health is that the individual may at the time not be able to act in a reasonable manor, sometimes this could be due to lack, incorrectly taken or incorrectly administered medication.

Take a look at your loved ones and of more than 4 have not suffered from this type of ill health think "yourself" lucky, thus far!

Smoggy.

 

[firecrest]

one in four people may suffer mental health but one in four will not kill another person. further than that, I'll chose not to give my opinion on the subject. lest it one day turn round and bite me in the bottom.

 

[Draven]

I firmly believe that the courts and the government are far too lenient on offenders, but punishing someone for being ill is in my view as much a crime as they may have been convicted of in the frst place!

I disagree. The death penalty isn't a punishment, death row is a punishment, as is prison. The dealth penalty is insurance for society, and in particular the victim or family of the victim. It ensures that they lose any opportunity to commit the crimes again; in that vein, the dangerously mental ill should be punished the same as those who aren't as far as the death penalty is concerned - something I am wholly in favour of. The suggestion that someone being mentally ill excuses them, even very slightly, for killing a child is nonsensical. The courts are there to punish, not give "time out".

More on topic, my deepest sympathies. It's a heartbreaking thing to happen, whether you knew the victim or family personally or not. I hope your wee girl's ok, and I hope your town recovers.

Pete

 

[BorderReiver]

Pete, the guys illness caused him to kill his own 6 year old daughter; and you want to punish him. Too late mate.

I don't know if you have children but if I was to recover from an illness to find that I'd killed my own daughter, I wouldn't need any more punishment.

 

[Draven]

Pete, the guys illness caused him to kill his own 6 year old daughter; and you want to punish him. Too late mate.

I don't know if you have children but if I was to recover from an illness to find that I'd killed my own daughter, I wouldn't need any more punishment.

No, as I said, me supporting the death penalty isn't about punishment. It's about insurance, and if he recovers then chances are he'll see it the same way. If he was genuinely mentally ill to such an extreme and genuinely recovers then I'll feel nothing but sympathy for the guy. I agree fully that true remorse is often the most painful punishment of all, but I'm not one to let that get in the way of what I think is a necessity to help ensure the safety of the innocent, law abiding people, and most of all, children.

 

[spamel]

If punishments fir the crime, people might start to sort their lives out and get a bit of moral fibre about themselves. Criminals have had it too easy for too long, I disagree with prisons having amenities for them to relax with. I'm all for them trying to educate themselves so that when they have repaid their debt to society they can move on and become an asset to society, but letting them play football, ping pong, playstation or whatever is doing nothing for them. I see no harm in military style boot camps for young offenders, equip these people with some sort of skill, mental strength and common decency and they can be a valuable part of society. Allow people to get away, literally, with murder and we will all reap the rewards. Our society is full of people with no moral standards at all, they are rapidly outnumbering the good people.

 

[5.10leader]

I must agree with Draven, prison is the punishment for many I imagine the rope would almost be a relief. Having worked on the design of prisons on behalf of the Home Office I personally can think of nothing worse than being locked up for hours upon end and when not in a cell having to associate with ones fellow inmates. Even as a visitor the sound of doors being slammed shut and locked is quite daunting.
But then, God willing, I will not be incarcerated. However who can definitely say that, with the pressure and stresses of modern life in the UK, they will not suffer a mental breakdown or similar psychiatric problems.
Perhaps the pertinent point is that sentencing is too lenient. Is there not a case for offenders actually serving the sentence handed down by the Courts - no remission for good behaviour rather an extended sentence for bad and life imprisonment to mean just that.

 

[BorderReiver]

If punishments fir the crime, people might start to sort their lives out and get a bit of moral fibre about themselves. Criminals have had it too easy for too long, I disagree with prisons having amenities for them to relax with. I'm all for them trying to educate themselves so that when they have repaid their debt to society they can move on and become an asset to society, but letting them play football, ping pong, playstation or whatever is doing nothing for them. I see no harm in military style boot camps for young offenders, equip these people with some sort of skill, mental strength and common decency and they can be a valuable part of society. Allow people to get away, literally, with murder and we will all reap the rewards. Our society is full of people with no moral standards at all, they are rapidly outnumbering the good people.

Spamel I can agree with you on the criminal justice points and the cushy prisons BUT this guy isn't a criminal, the poor ******* is mentally ill. He didn't decide to kill his own flesh and blood because he was an antisocial dick head; he didn't do it because he was bored, or because the little girl dissed him.